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Pirro the rack king

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Created by Al Hunter > 9 months ago, 4 Aug 2011
Al Hunter
NSW, 367 posts
4 Aug 2011 4:29PM
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Thanks to Mr Pirie for these unreal racks, now I can fit all my boards and still get some shelves
Even my wife thinks it looks good


rahams
NSW, 544 posts
4 Aug 2011 4:36PM
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nice rack!!
ps check nbn news today for shark story

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
4 Aug 2011 4:39PM
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Now that's a toy cupboard!

SP
10979 posts
4 Aug 2011 2:45PM
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Wow, can we have a run down of the toys?

Gassa
QLD, 272 posts
4 Aug 2011 5:19PM
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great set up are most of the sups DCs

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
4 Aug 2011 6:33PM
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i was pretty excited when i looked at the title

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
4 Aug 2011 4:43PM
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Now thats a rack

latman
QLD, 177 posts
4 Aug 2011 7:15PM
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what about this ?

Diver
WA, 554 posts
4 Aug 2011 5:15PM
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laceys lane said...

i was pretty excited when i looked at the title


This guy looks excited....

latman
QLD, 177 posts
4 Aug 2011 7:16PM
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ha ha or this , she has featured before ..

latman
QLD, 177 posts
4 Aug 2011 7:22PM
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back to boring racks .... these from Piros too

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
4 Aug 2011 9:50PM
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Ive done racks like this before. In a commerical enviroment, the small amount of weld area on the end section can fail. Ive found it better to use angle for the vertical, as you get 3 sides of the end section, plus the length of the angle along one edge of the top and bottom cord of the shs that is "rack" part. The top cord weld in particular is in tention which is strongest for steel/aluminium. Though Im sure these racks will be fine and give no trouble. Just another way to do it.

62mac
WA, 24860 posts
5 Aug 2011 5:27AM
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latman said...

back to boring racks .... these from Piros too




Hows the roof on this rack,nice work.I first saw the racks at the opening of greenline a few years ago top quality.

latman
QLD, 177 posts
5 Aug 2011 10:20AM
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62mac said...

latman said...

back to boring racks .... these from Piros too




Hows the roof on this rack,nice work.I first saw the racks at the opening of greenline a few years ago top quality.


The roof is polcarbonate sheet i got from bunnings screwed to long alloy extrusions from capral , I added it later when stuff from that tree you can just see got all over the top ski all the time , it also adds some sun /UV and rain protection too .

latman
QLD, 177 posts
5 Aug 2011 10:24AM
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some other racks with our SUPs on.

Piros
QLD, 7007 posts
5 Aug 2011 11:03PM
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Thanks Alain the cheques in the mail... we have fitted out quiet a few shops on the Goldie & the Sunny Coast , Greenline & Local Knowledge are a couple of the larger ones. The ali is a high tensile 6106-T6 which is Tig welded giving them the strength so you don't need a cross brace for strength giving you more room to stack the boards and padded with a 10mm foam.

The first 2 shots are of the Greenline shop still hanging strong after 3 years , the next one is my garage rack , my ute used to park under the rack, the new 4WD is a bit high , need to move racks up a few inches , the last shot is my roof rack in the shed.

The 3 board garage rack is $150 in mill finish or $180 powder coated , the roof rack is $90 . Can make any customs like Alains place and custom ski racks like Latmans.This months special is a free copy of "Living The Stoke" DVD with any rack purchase.. plus we also make racks for all the short boards and mals. More details here www.pirie.net.au

What a pimp fest...

Check out "The Living The Stoke" movie trailer here :- http://vmail.fotomedia.com.au/livingthestoke







husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
7 Aug 2011 12:23PM
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6061 is one of the most common used mid to high strength aluminium alloys, with its major alloying elements being magnesium and silicon. Not sure id call it high tensile.... T6 is referring to the solution heat treating porcess, in this case being: solution heat-treated and then artificially aged. TIG/heliarc welding wont give the aluminum more strength, nore will it out perform GMAW(Mig) or Oxy/Acetelene welding IF they are all using the correct procedure for their particular process.

The material type, size and wall thickness being used along with design will give end strength. In this case I cant see there being any problems. What I have seen in commercial enviroments, where boards are being put on and off the racks all day is a faliure at the butt weld...both in racks I have built and racks built by others ;)

IMO what is happening is the small amount of up and down movement is causing work hardening particluarly at the HAZ or heat affected zone around the weld. Visually insoecting the break showed what looked to be good welds and weld penetration.

For basic racks that are getting wall mounted im now using angle as the vertical rather than hollow section. This gives more weld area and also allows less leverage on the fastener used to the wall.

Just another way to skin a cat

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 5:13PM
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husq2100 said...

6061 is one of the most common used mid to high strength aluminium alloys, with its major alloying elements being magnesium and silicon. Not sure id call it high tensile.... T6 is referring to the solution heat treating porcess, in this case being: solution heat-treated and then artificially aged. TIG/heliarc welding wont give the aluminum more strength, nore will it out perform GMAW(Mig) or Oxy/Acetelene welding IF they are all using the correct procedure for their particular process.

The material type, size and wall thickness being used along with design will give end strength. In this case I cant see there being any problems. What I have seen in commercial enviroments, where boards are being put on and off the racks all day is a faliure at the butt weld...both in racks I have built and racks built by others ;)

IMO what is happening is the small amount of up and down movement is causing work hardening particluarly at the HAZ or heat affected zone around the weld. Visually insoecting the break showed what looked to be good welds and weld penetration.

For basic racks that are getting wall mounted im now using angle as the vertical rather than hollow section. This gives more weld area and also allows less leverage on the fastener used to the wall.

Just another way to skin a cat


hi, i would have thought a angle vertical section would need more wall fixing due cross member weight/load distortion. also the horizontal sections would have more movement/flex in the horizontal plan.
i know c sections and angles distort with downward loading pressure in lintel applications.i hate using them

thinking a vertical channel section where the cross members sit inside the vertical channel would allow for the benifits of a more welding and have more stability as a structual member its self.

we are talking high end strenght, probably commercial applications

cheers

62mac
WA, 24860 posts
7 Aug 2011 3:27PM
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ffs Lacey its only a board rack

latman
QLD, 177 posts
7 Aug 2011 7:38PM
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How many KGs would be supported by each horizontal arm holding a board ? 4 or 5 maybe . Im sure a 40 or 50mm square tube weld has no problems..

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 7:41PM
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yep, i understand its just an excuse to waffle on a bit

62mac
WA, 24860 posts
7 Aug 2011 5:50PM
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laceys lane said...

yep, i understand its just an excuse to waffle on a bit


That's ok your doing a good job of the waffle

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
7 Aug 2011 7:58PM
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laceys lane said...


hi, i would have thought a angle vertical section would need more wall fixing due cross member weight/load distortion. also the horizontal sections would have more movement/flex in the horizontal plan.
i know c sections and angles distort with downward loading pressure in lintel applications.i hate using them

thinking a vertical channel section where the cross members sit inside the vertical channel would allow for the benifits of a more welding and have more stability as a structual member its self.

we are talking high end strenght, probably commercial applications

cheers


considering the application, and the material size/thickness the wall fixing will be what ever the owner/installer wants to do... as far as crossmember weight/load distortion, your not building a truck chassis...the racks are independant of each other and the boards sitting on them. There is no side loading, unless you drive a car etc into them, then good luck with that. I can see what your saying about the twisting/distortion of the angle as its loaded heavily, but the box section that the board rests on, being welded to the angle, will increase its ridigity some what....its kinda of a moot point here.

All beam sections will distort under load, thats whay they require bracing at some point in some way shape or form. have a look at UB (I) beams in factorys, and have a look at the box section chassis under Piros's Landy...all have bracing/cross members

Using a "C" channel as the vertical with its web to the wall and the flanges coming out, welding the box section "into" it is a good idea....but not sure how much of a benifit it is over angle as the 2 flanges are still independant, only joined at each rack....

Like I have said more than once, the way Piros has done them is more than enough most of the time. But I have seen faliures. IMO its just high use that is doing it.

the ultimate would be a one piece extrusion....or a one piece billet milled out of something like Ti.....or maybe a foam core with carbon wrap. get your jig saw out Lacey

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 7:58PM
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62mac said...

laceys lane said...

yep, i understand its just an excuse to waffle on a bit


That's ok your doing a good job of the waffle


i can't take all the credit husq started it.

lets go back to the human racks

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
7 Aug 2011 7:58PM
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latman said...

How many KGs would be supported by each horizontal arm holding a board ? 4 or 5 maybe . Im sure a 40 or 50mm square tube weld has no problems..


it not the tube that fails....

Edit: just caught the weld bit, this is where Ive seen the failure.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 8:06PM
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husq2100 said...

laceys lane said...


hi, i would have thought a angle vertical section would need more wall fixing due cross member weight/load distortion. also the horizontal sections would have more movement/flex in the horizontal plan.
i know c sections and angles distort with downward loading pressure in lintel applications.i hate using them

thinking a vertical channel section where the cross members sit inside the vertical channel would allow for the benifits of a more welding and have more stability as a structual member its self.

we are talking high end strenght, probably commercial applications

cheers


considering the application, and the material size/thickness the wall fixing will be what ever the owner/installer wants to do... as far as crossmember weight/load distortion, your not building a truck chassis...the racks are independant of each other and the boards sitting on them. There is no side loading, unless you drive a car etc into them, then good luck with that. I can see what your saying about the twisting/distortion of the angle as its loaded heavily, but the box section that the board rests on, being welded to the angle, will increase its ridigity some what....its kinda of a moot point here.

All beam sections will distort under load, thats whay they require bracing at some point in some way shape or form. have a look at UB (I) beams in factorys, and have a look at the box section chassis under Piros's Landy...all have bracing/cross members

Using a "C" channel as the vertical with its web to the wall and the flanges coming out, welding the box section "into" it is a good idea....but not sure how much of a benifit it is over angle as the 2 flanges are still independant, only joined at each rack....

Like I have said more than once, the way Piros has done them is more than enough most of the time. But I have seen faliures. IMO its just high use that is doing it.

the ultimate would be a one piece extrusion....or a one piece billet milled out of something like Ti.....or maybe a foam core with carbon wrap. get your jig saw out Lacey


i disagree on a few fine points because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

geez its sunday, why are we talking anything work related

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
7 Aug 2011 8:18PM
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talking and making anything better is a good thing im my mind. Isnt that why we have read so many board and fin reviews from you

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 8:47PM
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husq2100 said...

talking and making anything better is a good thing im my mind. Isnt that why we have read so many board and fin reviews from you


why does everybody think i do fin reviews? i did one recently as joke because everbody thought it might have been about those reef sharks fin thingies.

speaking of, i had to give back those jm fins, so i was left with my am2's and tried a reuben shapers fin as centre fin that i had. it does look strange compared to the current trend of small sets of fins. had it way too forward to start with- too loose and i could hardly stand on the board. slipped it back to my normal spot on my last sup walk back circuit and well- the board was super fast drivey. it turned back fast and positive on cutback rebounds instead of that swing feel and gave my a lot confidence in and around the steep sections in low tide alley/laceys this morning.

cmc has been telling everyone their supping with too smaller fins- i think he is right.

thanks, i was dying for that excuse


ShireSUP
NSW, 982 posts
7 Aug 2011 9:09PM
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laceys lane said...

husq2100 said...

talking and making anything better is a good thing im my mind. Isnt that why we have read so many board and fin reviews from you


why does everybody think i do fin reviews? i did on recently as joke because everbody thought it might have been about those reef sharks fin thingies.

speaking of, i had to give back those jm fins, so i was left with my am2's and tried a reuben shapers fin as centre fin that i had. it does look strange compared to the current trend of small sets of fins. had it way too forward to start with- too loose and i could hardly stand on the board. slipped it back to my normal spot on my last sup walk back circuit and well- the board was super fast drivey. it turned back fast and positive on cutback rebounds instead of that swing feel and gave my a lot confidence in and around the steep sections in low tide alley/laceys this morning.

cmc has been telling everyone their supping with too smaller fins- i think he is right.

thanks, i was dying for that excuse





Lacey, seeing as you changed the topic and given you are the unofficial expert on all things fins, I read your comments on moving the fins, well I am new and find sometimes the board is "loose" (Naish Nalu 11'6) particularly in wind and small cop. Anyway I have the fin (11" standard from the factory) in the fin box where it was when I bought it. Which is pretty much to the front of the fin box

If I moved it to the back of the fin would it make the board more stable.........and why? The fin box is only 250mm which I guess is standard so i cant understand why this would be.

Any help appreciated.

Greg

Piros
QLD, 7007 posts
7 Aug 2011 9:15PM
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Tig v Mig we are talking penetration it very easy to lay your weld on top with a Mig torch , Tig much higher temp and greater penetration my boys all day weld up balustrades for 30+ story buildings on 3 phase $5,000 Miller machines so trust me the welds are good on these racks.

Just go into Greenline and seen how many of these racks have failed over the last 3 years..? None... just imagine how many boards have been pulled on and off these racks in that time ?

My rack design is cost effective and structurally fit for purpose , yes you can build them stronger but no reason to unless you want to sleep on them.

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
7 Aug 2011 9:29PM
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ShireSUP said...

laceys lane said...

husq2100 said...

talking and making anything better is a good thing im my mind. Isnt that why we have read so many board and fin reviews from you


why does everybody think i do fin reviews? i did on recently as joke because everbody thought it might have been about those reef sharks fin thingies.

speaking of, i had to give back those jm fins, so i was left with my am2's and tried a reuben shapers fin as centre fin that i had. it does look strange compared to the current trend of small sets of fins. had it way too forward to start with- too loose and i could hardly stand on the board. slipped it back to my normal spot on my last sup walk back circuit and well- the board was super fast drivey. it turned back fast and positive on cutback rebounds instead of that swing feel and gave my a lot confidence in and around the steep sections in low tide alley/laceys this morning.

cmc has been telling everyone their supping with too smaller fins- i think he is right.

thanks, i was dying for that excuse





Lacey, seeing as you changed the topic and given you are the unofficial expert on all things fins, I read your comments on moving the fins, well I am new and find sometimes the board is "loose" (Naish Nalu 11'6) particularly in wind and small cop. Anyway I have the fin (11" standard from the factory) in the fin box where it was when I bought it. Which is pretty much to the front of the fin box

If I moved it to the back of the fin would it make the board more stable.........and why? The fin box is only 250mm which I guess is standard so i cant understand why this would be.

Any help appreciated.

Greg


hi, a few of us reckon a good starting positioning point for centre fins is 8" for the back of the fin to the back of the tail. i was chucking in the fins on my ripper 8'6, scotty said try the fin up a bit more seeing as it is big- just to see how it would go.

now as big as the fin is, it was really difficult to stand in the two direction chop we had.

when i eventually got the fin back to my normal 8" position it was a lot easier to deal with stability wise.why, i'm not super sure.

what i have found is you can go back a bit further with the centre fin, but to far back and the board drags its arse paddling and well its just plain weird to surf unless it big and pumping

so i would say something like this, if you have to push the fin right back to get stability, i would say you need a different or bigger fin. you can go two ways- more of a base ier fin or a bigger narrowish base fin with some rake.
i was impressed with the holding/drive feel of the rueben with out giving up any looseness then i was used too. again i'm not overtly fond of really loose surfbboards- i reckon they just end up screwing up your surfing

cheers



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"Pirro the rack king" started by Al Hunter