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Sharing & Snaking

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Created by Simondo > 9 months ago, 25 Feb 2010
Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
25 Feb 2010 10:52PM
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The Margaret River Signboard pretty much says it all.

http://www.surf-etiquette.com/text/Tribalaw.pdf

1) Furthest Out or WAITING LONGEST
2) Furthest Inside on the wave / closest to the peak
3) First to Feet
4) Call / Communicate (left or right, mine, etc - discuss that the next wave should be yours because you have been waiting a long time now..., or vice versa, next wave is not yours mate, as you just had the last one)
5) Don't drop in or snake
6) Paddle wide
7) Stay in the white water
8) Don't throw your board if it will endanger others

1,2&3 above will confuse some newcomers to the surf.....

If you can't surf your SUP board tight in the pocket, when other surfers are there doing just that, I'd suggest the SUP should paddle to a different wave.

SUP's should always consider other 'old school' surfers, especially at the classic point breaks.

Wait your turn, be patient, show respect.

If someone drops-in inside you, it is not necessarily snaking.... they might have been waiting longer, or are just closer to the peak, dropping into the wave when they can (after an SUP can pick it off). True snaking is deliberately paddling inside others who are waiting, in order to exercise the 'closest to peak rule' which is why this rule comes after 'waiting longest and furthest out'. SUP's should delete 'furthest out' and go with 'waiting longest'.

Here's some more;

www.surfinghandbook.com/knowledge/surfing-etiquette/
Link gives more definition. Below is high level summary

Rule #1: Right of Way - closest to the peak
Rule #2: Don't Drop In
Rule #3: Paddling Rules - take on the white wash, not the shoulder
Rule #4: Don't Ditch Your Board
Rule #5: Don't Snake
Rule #6: Beginners: don't paddle out to the middle of a packed lineup
Rule #7: Don't be a wave hog (TAKE NOTE SUP's!!!!!!)
Rule #8: Respect the beach
Rule #9: Drive responsibly
Rule #10: If you mess up - apologise

It doesn't matter what you ride, you must obey the basic rules of surfing. For Stand Up Paddlers who are new to surfing, you must realise you will be in the line-up with some crew who have been surfing for 20-30-40++ years. If you are in your 20's or 30's on a shiny new SUP Board, without good poise and balance, and with poor surfing technique, you will be noticed !!

If you are surfing on an SUP board, and have never heard of ALL of these following names, and do not know what era they were in their peak, then do some more homework before hitting the surf... the surfers are; The Duke, Dick Brewer, Robert August, Bob McTavish, Nat, Greenough, Billy Hamilton, Jock Sutherland, Gerry Lopez, MP, Wayne Lynch, MR, Curren & Carroll, Occy, Slater, Luke Egan, Mick Fanning, The Hobgoods, Joel Parkinson, Kekoa Bacalso (young Hawaiian Shredder), etc.

Trivia Question: Who would you consider the father of Australian Stand Up Paddle Surfing...
My Answer: Snowy McAlister. I understand he used to love surfing Fairy Bower in Sydney, standing up with a paddle, on a hollow pin tail finless board. Circa 1950's onwards...

Again, if this trivia is a total revelation to you, do some more homework before hitting the surf..... If you have never heard of The Bower / Fairy Bower, again, you need to do some more homework.

When surfing, remember to smile, and apologise if you stuff up, and if you stuff up twice, paddle in immediately !! Mick Fanning suggested it is difficult to punch someone who is smiling..... regarding being in foreign line-ups....

Simon

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
25 Feb 2010 11:01PM
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PS - I'm not even "old" !! I'm 36 yrs. But I feel strongly about surfers knowing about their history.

Whilst also trying to look forwards, and invent, and innovate, you should be well aware of the past....

Rob Machado said it was hard to make Al Merrick look backwards, and help him with new Fish Boards, and new age Singles... (you can add Rob & Al to the above list)....

I believe Rob coined the phrase "foam is your friend", but this was orientated to beefing some foam into short boards... SUP's quadruple the 'foam is your friend' saying !!! : ) LOL !! : )

Take care.

Simon

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
25 Feb 2010 11:04PM
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Also make sure you watch Luke Egan talking about paddling....



It has been posted here before.....

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
26 Feb 2010 10:36AM
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And to rehash an old SUP specific element to the tribal law:

Written by Blane Chambers of Paddle Surf Hawaii.

Perhaps this could be a sticky thread offered as a resource for the site. Not for the converted but as a guideline to non surf specific backgrounded people wanting to get into SUP.


How are you representing Stand Up Paddle Surfing?
Are you Dangerous to others? Are you a WAVE HOG?

When Beach Boy surfing, there are Kool things and things that make you a huge KOOK!
This section is dedicated to Kook & Kool!

1. You paddle out floundering to a lineup with surfers. You can barely stay standing but proceed right into or outside of the lineup. You paddle for waves while people scramble out of your way only to fall off before you can even get on the wave.... Your big board becomes an extremely dangerous projectile... Kook alert!! KOOK!! KOOK!! KOOK!! KOOK!!

2. You can barely stay standing so you practice in an area where no one is around that you could endanger or bum out. You care about the world wide effects of SUP surfing so you paddle and surf with Aloha. Very KOOL!!

3. You start to get the hang of it and want to surf better waves so you decide to surf a more popular spot. You paddle out and stand outside everyone. The sets come and you paddle in like a locomotive right thru the pack. You get waves in every set... KOOK!!

4. You start to get the hang of it and want to surf better waves so you decide to surf a more popular spot. You paddle out and check out the situation. You see waves off to the side that a lot less people go for. You catch a few of those... Since you don't want to wear out your welcome, you decide to catch only a few set waves at most. You surf with Aloha.... KOOL!

5. You paddle out on an in-consistent day to a crowded spot. You stand outside everyone the whole duration of the lulls. You never sit down so you tower over others the whole time... You make sure you catch a wave from every set. KOOK!

6. You paddle out on an in-consistent day to a crowded spot. You feel like you're on stage so you stand off to the side or sit down between sets because you don't like blocking everyone's view of the beautiful ocean. You catch a couple waves then move to the inside or on to another spot or just paddle around because you figured out how to surf with Aloha... KOOL!!

7. You're pretty good and can get in and around the surf well... You surf crowded spots and catch all the waves you can. Small ones, set waves etc. Because you can surf good you get plenty waves. You're always calling people off your waves. You just can't help yourself to sit sets out so you basically take over the spot for the duration of your surf. HUGE SELFISH KOOK!!!!!!!!

8. You're pretty good and can get in and around the surf well... You go to a crowded spot and check out what's going on. You see some of the lesser quality waves going un-ridden and surf those. You catch a ton of waves but ones that no one really wants. You paddle out and get a few set waves but you make sure others get waves by quietly cluing them in to incoming sets. You become a quiet spotter of sorts for others to score good waves.... You always sit out a few sets. You use your high vantage point to stoke others out. KOOL!! (When you arrive and it's already crowded NOT GOING OUT THERE is the KOOLEST!)

9. You see how cool SUP surfing is because you can paddle fast and want to get back at those greedy longboarders. You decide to get into it to take over and be the dominent surfer at any spot at any time. Do the entire surfing world a favor and don't get into it. You are the biggest KOOK!!!!!!

10. You see how cool SUP surfing is because you can do something that is a challenge, get great exercise, paddle far up the coast at will, have a blast riding waves you never thought would be fun, discover new spots, like to enjoy the comraderie of the SUP surfers around the world. KOOL!!

Note:
If there are more than one of you SUP surfing, everything becomes doubled, tripled, quadrupled, etc.

Avoid heavy rotations with other SUP surfers when surfing with others.
Be aware of your actions and the actions of others. BE KOOL!

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
26 Feb 2010 10:05AM
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There is a message here somewhere

thommo 000
1670 posts
26 Feb 2010 10:26AM
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maybe do an induction before you go for a paddle

mikeman
QLD, 692 posts
26 Feb 2010 12:36PM
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Doggie, Legion and Simondo would be happy to know that there are many of us SUP surfers that do come from a strong surfing background and understand surf etiquette. There are also, unfortunately, also a lot that don't and their numbers are growing daily.

As there are simply too many people in the water these days competing for the same waves it will always be difficult to educate everyone. We can only do our best to keep on promoting good SUP etiquette. It will always be hard at places like Currumbin Alley (where anything seems to go!) but is a lot easier at most other places. One of the great things about SUP is that we can surf places that most other water users can't.

Let's keep at it in the SUP clubs, schools, mags, shops and in the water.

CMC
QLD, 3954 posts
26 Feb 2010 1:58PM
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doggie said...

There is a message here somewhere


Yep, that most people just want to ride the boards (whatever that may be) that are the most fun for the day and not endanger or ruin others time in the ocean.

Pretty simple.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
26 Feb 2010 12:43PM
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CMC said...

doggie said...

There is a message here somewhere


Yep, that most people just want to ride the boards (whatever that may be) that are the most fun for the day and not endanger or ruin others time in the ocean.

Pretty simple.


Simple if everyone thought the same as you & I do.

Choose your spot, thats my advice. I f you dont like the craft thats already out there dont surf there

Brooko
1672 posts
26 Feb 2010 5:43PM
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doggie said...

CMC said...

doggie said...

There is a message here somewhere


Yep, that most people just want to ride the boards (whatever that may be) that are the most fun for the day and not endanger or ruin others time in the ocean.

Pretty simple.


Simple if everyone thought the same as you & I do.

Choose your spot, thats my advice. I f you dont like the craft thats already out there dont surf there


Doggie here's a thought for you brother . A few months ago on a decent swell at a quality break I was out there first for an hour on my sub

Then I came in and grabbed my brand new MC 6 8" pintail out of the ute and surfed it for an hour

Its ok to do both brother, relax !!

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
26 Feb 2010 8:03PM
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cry me a river..........

how about this for a thought, its not the craft but the person riding it. Guns dont kill people remember. I have only been in the water for almost 1 year. No prior experience. I surf often with a mate that has surfed for 30 years, clubbie boards, short boards, mals, kites etc. We see all the problems from every type of craft, short boards, mals, sups etc. One thing I havent seen is a sup surfer paddle out of their way to go over to a prone surfer to tell them they dont belong, for no reason.....but the opposite has been done more than once. Short boarders often take off 3-5 at a time fighting for a point wave.

My point is why do Sup'rs have to make all the efforts when its people as a whole that have to make the effort, as we do in every day life. I'd love to prone surf but cant due to my back. Suping has got me in the water and onto waves for the first time in my life. There will be no turning back.

Serg

froggo
QLD, 127 posts
26 Feb 2010 8:23PM
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As a newbie I appreciate this thread and the vid - thanks Simondo

Prior to this I had little idea of lineup rules etc...


Nice steep learning curve for me - having a ball!

cheers froggo

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
26 Feb 2010 9:59PM
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If a 'normal' or 'prone' surfer ever tells you (the SUP'er) to bugger off, try this simple response, "I'm just looking for a few wide ones, and I'll try and stay out of your way".... or "my back is stuffed and I can't surf a short board (anymore)".... say it with a smile... if there is still angst, try gripping your paddle real hard, and flexing your forearm and upper arm muscles, in a subtle threatening sort of way.... you'd have to be stupid (or be a martial arts dude) to take on a guy with a long carbon paddle !! LOL : )

Bnaccas
VIC, 1722 posts
26 Feb 2010 11:42PM
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My excuse is I snapped my archillies and SUP was great rehab and the only way I can
get in the surf. Initially it was all true but now the archillies part is true and the rehab
but I can still surf a shorty ok. The only thing is SUP surfing is soooo damn fun!

If you are sitting wide and someone paddles over and tells you to bugger off, then just
tell them politely "you have 2 choices, I can stay here and get some waves or paddle
over and sit inside of you and take ALL your waves? Which would you prefer?"

They won't choose either option. They'll either tell you to F off or paddle away without
saying anything. It might not be the best approach at super localised spots.

I have never had this happen so it's not from experience but if anyone uses it then let
me know how you go.

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
26 Feb 2010 9:44PM
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husq2100 said...

Guns dont kill people remember.

Isn't that the NRA's brilliant argument? The one they use to justify gun ownership in the U.S.A.? I guess it convinces the geniuses in the red states ... the sort of people that advocate things like Intelligent Design ...

And surfing in an inherently selfish pursuit. All you people saying that SUP enables you to get in the water when otherwise you couldn't, no offence, but the fewer people in the water the better. It's not a good thing for me or anyone else except you that you're able to get in the water .

E.g. weekends are great for everyone individually, because no-one has any obligations preventing them getting in the water. So everyone can go surfing. And everyone does, so it's stupidly crowded all over the place. What's good for the individual isn't good for the collective.

Hence why weekdays and crappy conditions are good for me, because I'll still go out in crappy conditions and I've got somewhat flexible work so I can get out when a lot of people are working. It's still surprisingly crowded these days midweek though.

husq2100
QLD, 2031 posts
27 Feb 2010 5:33AM
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Legion said...

husq2100 said...

Guns dont kill people remember.

Isn't that the NRA's brilliant argument? The one they use to justify gun ownership in the U.S.A.? I guess it convinces the geniuses in the red states ... the sort of people that advocate things like Intelligent Design ...

And surfing in an inherently selfish pursuit. All you people saying that SUP enables you to get in the water when otherwise you couldn't, no offence, but the fewer people in the water the better. It's not a good thing for me or anyone else except you that you're able to get in the water .

E.g. weekends are great for everyone individually, because no-one has any obligations preventing them getting in the water. So everyone can go surfing. And everyone does, so it's stupidly crowded all over the place. What's good for the individual isn't good for the collective.

Hence why weekdays and crappy conditions are good for me, because I'll still go out in crappy conditions and I've got somewhat flexible work so I can get out when a lot of people are working. It's still surprisingly crowded these days midweek though.


lets not get side tracked by the NRA and the people of the USA.......basicly what your complaint is more people are in the water which is getting sand in your........ I think the answer is humans should stop breeding.

people will do the wrong thing, people will do the right thing....and if you dont like the number of people out there or the board they are riding, dont go out.

DILLIGAF2
218 posts
28 Feb 2010 5:50PM
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Simondo said...

If a 'normal' or 'prone' surfer ever tells you (the SUP'er) to bugger off, try this simple response, "I'm just looking for a few wide ones, and I'll try and stay out of your way".... or "my back is stuffed and I can't surf a short board (anymore)".... say it with a smile... if there is still angst, try gripping your paddle real hard, and flexing your forearm and upper arm muscles, in a subtle threatening sort of way.... you'd have to be stupid (or be a martial arts dude) to take on a guy with a long carbon paddle !! LOL : )


Yep that's my response too these days

TrevNewman
VIC, 237 posts
12 Mar 2010 4:58PM
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Who is this preacher "Simondo"

If I want to go paddlesurfing, I will go paddlesurfing. I wont do any of this "Homework" rubbish.

I'll learn to Paddlesurf, and will have fun doing so. I dont think knowing about the history of paddlesurfing/surfing is necessary.

What a load of gobble-de-gook.

As if I will care who The Duke, Dick Brewer, Robert August, Bob McTavish, Nat, Greenough, Billy Hamilton are, while I am falling off the board getting litres of saltwater shoved up my nose, and while I keep swearing while I am loosing my paddle, I dont think The Duke will help me then.

Homework, shmomework !


Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
12 Mar 2010 5:20PM
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The Duke was no stranger to a paddle actually.

Humour me, and skim read the link about The Duke A true Hawaiian Surfing Legend.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Kahanamoku

It's great to look forwards, and innovate etc. But also have half an idea where it has all come from.

I was just trying to say, show some respect to old dudes, and short board crew, etc. Don't hog waves... It doesn't matter much who I am. But I do know that I'm heading off for a paddle right now !! Great afternoon on the surf coast (vic).

Have a nice day.
Aloha

Zimbo Reagan
WA, 469 posts
12 Mar 2010 2:31PM
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TrevNewman said...

Who is this preacher "Simondo"

If I want to go paddlesurfing, I will go paddlesurfing. I wont do any of this "Homework" rubbish.

I'll learn to Paddlesurf, and will have fun doing so. I dont think knowing about the history of paddlesurfing/surfing is necessary.

What a load of gobble-de-gook.

As if I will care who The Duke, Dick Brewer, Robert August, Bob McTavish, Nat, Greenough, Billy Hamilton are, while I am falling off the board getting litres of saltwater shoved up my nose, and while I keep swearing while I am loosing my paddle, I dont think The Duke will help me then.

Homework, shmomework !





hahah

WINDY MILLER
WA, 3183 posts
12 Mar 2010 4:40PM
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NO EXCUSES....

ur on ur sup coz u want to...

Rosscoe
VIC, 505 posts
12 Mar 2010 9:24PM
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I've been surfing a long time and know all the names, but in relation to rule no. 1 in the list above, I have to say that I have never seen the person "Waiting longest" get priority. That goes for mid-winter Vicco waves, when the numbers are down anyway.

The only time you will find true "sharing" of waves is when the numbers are very low and there's plenty coming through, or you are with friends and apply a rotation system. Even then, we usually do a system where "it's your call", but if you miss the wave you elect, back to the end of the queue.

I'm more than happy to share waves out in the lineup, but if I get any lip I usually ignore it and let the hot-heads have their space. I know quite a few have come into stand up because of injuries etc, but my back is ok, I still own 6 short boards, and I'm not gonna make any 'excuses' as to why I seem to be spending most of my water time now standing up. I simply find it to be more fun.

If others prefer to surf prone, on their knees or whatever, that's all ok by me. Mutual respect is what we are after (and SUP's doing the wrong things will not help in this regard). But whilst there is usually no love for us out in the pack, I'm not going to think of myself as some sort of second class citizen.

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
12 Mar 2010 6:43PM
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Rosscoe said...

I've been surfing a long time and know all the names, but in relation to rule no. 1 in the list above, I have to say that I have never seen the person "Waiting longest" get priority.

I've seen (and participated in) this often at a few very crowded waves here. There are subpacks of locals (not necessarily friends) and they share with those waiting longest getting priority.

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
12 Mar 2010 9:48PM
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First Two Lines of original post;
------------
The Margaret River Signboard pretty much says it all.

http://www.surf-etiquette.com/text/Tribalaw.pdf
------------

Click on the link, it says "waiting longest" !! The link is a 'Black & White' exact version of the bronze / brass plaque at Margaret River.

Isn't the "your call system" just a variation on waiting longest?

Bodyboarders and Kneeboarders can virtually always take off deeper than the average surfer (or SUP'er)... and SUP'ers can pick them off earliest, which is when waiting longest comes into play...

If you're not sharing at Bells or Winki, there is half a dozen people that will mention it to you.

WINDY MILLER
WA, 3183 posts
12 Mar 2010 7:01PM
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the 10 comandments:


Downwinder
QLD, 2015 posts
12 Mar 2010 9:05PM
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Simondo said...

Also make sure you watch Luke Egan talking about paddling....



It has been posted here before.....


Great video simondo
Yes Luke Egan ripes on a SUP & I have riden that 8'0'' of Lukes but it was a windy day I was maybe a bit to heavy at 93kg Lukes dad Sam Egan is in the top 2 surfboard shapers in Australia Sam was going to shape me a Magic Carpet SUP but to much s##t was going down at the time spewing. But Sam Egan shapes all my surfboards stoked

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
12 Mar 2010 10:13PM
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Sam & Luke are legends! Luke's lucky to have a dad like Sam too ! And Sam's lucky to have a son like Luke....

I love the name "Magic Carpet" too. Very cool ! Very fitting for Stand Up Paddle Boards.

Downwinder
QLD, 2015 posts
12 Mar 2010 9:19PM
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Simondo said...

The Margaret River Signboard pretty much says it all.

http://www.surf-etiquette.com/text/Tribalaw.pdf

1) Furthest Out or WAITING LONGEST
2) Furthest Inside on the wave / closest to the peak
3) First to Feet
4) Call / Communicate (left or right, mine, etc - discuss that the next wave should be yours because you have been waiting a long time now..., or vice versa, next wave is not yours mate, as you just had the last one)
5) Don't drop in or snake
6) Paddle wide
7) Stay in the white water
8) Don't throw your board if it will endanger others

1,2&3 above will confuse some newcomers to the surf.....

If you can't surf your SUP board tight in the pocket, when other surfers are there doing just that, I'd suggest the SUP should paddle to a different wave.

SUP's should always consider other 'old school' surfers, especially at the classic point breaks.

Wait your turn, be patient, show respect.

If someone drops-in inside you, it is not necessarily snaking.... they might have been waiting longer, or are just closer to the peak, dropping into the wave when they can (after an SUP can pick it off). True snaking is deliberately paddling inside others who are waiting, in order to exercise the 'closest to peak rule' which is why this rule comes after 'waiting longest and furthest out'. SUP's should delete 'furthest out' and go with 'waiting longest'.

Here's some more;

www.surfinghandbook.com/knowledge/surfing-etiquette/
Link gives more definition. Below is high level summary

Rule #1: Right of Way - closest to the peak
Rule #2: Don't Drop In
Rule #3: Paddling Rules - take on the white wash, not the shoulder
Rule #4: Don't Ditch Your Board
Rule #5: Don't Snake
Rule #6: Beginners: don't paddle out to the middle of a packed lineup
Rule #7: Don't be a wave hog (TAKE NOTE SUP's!!!!!!)
Rule #8: Respect the beach
Rule #9: Drive responsibly
Rule #10: If you mess up - apologise

It doesn't matter what you ride, you must obey the basic rules of surfing. For Stand Up Paddlers who are new to surfing, you must realise you will be in the line-up with some crew who have been surfing for 20-30-40++ years. If you are in your 20's or 30's on a shiny new SUP Board, without good poise and balance, and with poor surfing technique, you will be noticed !!

If you are surfing on an SUP board, and have never heard of ALL of these following names, and do not know what era they were in their peak, then do some more homework before hitting the surf... the surfers are; The Duke, Dick Brewer, Robert August, Bob McTavish, Nat, Greenough, Billy Hamilton, Jock Sutherland, Gerry Lopez, MP, Wayne Lynch, MR, Curren & Carroll, Occy, Slater, Luke Egan, Mick Fanning, The Hobgoods, Joel Parkinson, Kekoa Bacalso (young Hawaiian Shredder), etc.

Trivia Question: Who would you consider the father of Australian Stand Up Paddle Surfing...
My Answer: Snowy McAlister. I understand he used to love surfing Fairy Bower in Sydney, standing up with a paddle, on a hollow pin tail finless board. Circa 1950's onwards...

Again, if this trivia is a total revelation to you, do some more homework before hitting the surf..... If you have never heard of The Bower / Fairy Bower, again, you need to do some more homework.

When surfing, remember to smile, and apologise if you stuff up, and if you stuff up twice, paddle in immediately !! Mick Fanning suggested it is difficult to punch someone who is smiling..... regarding being in foreign line-ups....

Simon


I grew up at one of the heavyest local beaches in Australia Frenchmans beach at Swansea Heads in Newcastle no town clown at that beach locals only to get a wave there you had to paddle with your fist no s##T Mark Warren even quotes it in his surfing Australian atlas book. But anyway I'll surf at any beach I dont give a f##k who you are all you have to do is do the right thing wait your turn but if the oppertunity rises you can snake, fade or dropin. Just don't be a KOOK about it or you my get punched out (funny)

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
12 Mar 2010 8:26PM
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Downwinder said...

... Sam Egan is in the top 2 surfboard shapers in Australia ...

Woah, big call there. Maybe you forgot the "IMHO" bit?

Simondo said...

I love the name "Magic Carpet" too. Very cool ! Very fitting for Stand Up Paddle Boards.

I hate to break it to you, but "Magic Carpet" is hardly a new term. It's already been pretty widely used for many years.



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"Sharing & Snaking" started by Simondo