www.supracer.com/the-sticker-debate/
Really good Article about sponsored riders using other brands equipment ie Connor on a SIC.. Check the link i felt it was to long to copy and post here..
What's everyone think??
Its an absolute joke and either shows the greed on the athletes part or their sponsors gear is not up to the gear they are winning on,imagine a Holden winning a V8 supercar race covered in Ford logos,how would that seat with the Australian public.To be honest if I was involved with either brand I would be totally embarrassed its a sham.Not to mention its a form of false advertising imo. Little Johnny picks up a sup magazine and sees his hero winning on X brand saves up his hard earned pocket money only to find out his hero has been riding Y brand.Its a joke a sham and a lie.
Agreed I'm trying to think of another sport that something like this happens in with gear etc and I can't... I do remember as a kid I drew a nike logo on my no name school shorts but my sponsor was my mothers bank account not a competing brand..
Select to expand quote62mac said..
Its an absolute joke and either shows the greed on the athletes part or their sponsors gear is not up to the gear they are winning on,imagine a Holden winning a V8 supercar race covered in Ford logos,how would that seat with the Australian public.To be honest if I was involved with either brand I would be totally embarrassed its a sham.Not to mention its a form of false advertising imo. Little Johnny picks up a sup magazine and sees his hero winning on X brand saves up his hard earned pocket money only to find out his hero has been riding Y brand.Its a joke a sham and a lie.
LOL - V8 Supercars - great example. The "Car of the Future" format ensures that these vehicles are little more than badge engineering, and certainly a long way from a stock class.
Select to expand quoteAndyR said..
Agreed I'm trying to think of another sport that something like this happens in with gear etc and I can't...
Off the top of my head - cricket. The pros use custom bats, rarely made by the sponsor. They just slap on stickers and accept a fat cheque.
Surfing is the same - if the pro surfer is sponsored by a board brand, chances are, he has his own shaper. I suspect it's a more common practice in a lot more sports than you think.
i think its cool. i get paid to have stickers on my boards lol
.
i'm thinking of getting mactavish racing sticker on my 14'er mac.
hawaii seems to be the place for sponsored riders doing this. sic must love it
Surfers have been getting boards from Hawaiian shapers since the beginning of surfing.
The waves and waters are different in Hawaii and require different boards to what are required elsewhere. How many people want a Bullet to paddle in Australia up and down a river, in the surf or in less than ideal Hawaiian like conditions?
The pic below is an iconic image of Tom Carroll called "The Snap" at Pipeline in Hawaii. You can see he has his sponsor 'Byrne' on the nose. Everybody knows the board is made by Pat Rawson, although you can not see it in this photo his logos are also on the board.
Good for Pat, he had the world champ riding his boards, good for Tom, he won the event. Good for Byrne, their paid team rider got to win the event, promoted their brand and increased Toms value meaning his choice to ride Byrnes everywhere else in the world meant even more.
I don't see what the fuss is about. Hawaii is Hawaii.
Sorry CMC I didn't know the board was made by Pat Rawson. In fact I don't even know who Pat Rawson is.
Then again I do live in outer space.
Cheers ET.
Sponsored paddlers riding stickered up product from another brand only becomes suss when the sponsor uses the paddlers success to claim it was their product that gave that rider such success.
Select to expand quoteJonWest said..
Sponsored paddlers riding stickered up product from another brand only becomes suss when the sponsor uses the paddlers success to claim it was their product that gave that rider such success.
It's been common in surfing for years but generally the brand is licenced to a local shaper who uses the original shapers templates etc. It's certainly not secret and no one is trying to claim otherwise. The Pat Rawson example is one where it was Pat Rawson's shape and not Phil Byrnes though and this was certainly not hidden at the time.
The Starboard issue is pretty strange. They know how to make good race boards. Surely Connor and his sponsors can come up with something fast or is the SIC just so far out in front?
Love the V8 Supercar analogy
It is interesting that a brand that has a race board for nearly every occasion, cant supply their top paddler with a suitable board. i could inderstand it if he rode for a brand that only had one race board that wasnt suitable....
From Connors poont of view he wants to win. end of story. im sure he has spoken with starboard and they have said no, we dont want to go that way... ride a suc, chuck some stickers onit..
i dont think its a big deal. sic is happy, starboard must be happy and connor is winning... happy days.
It was going on in windsurfing for yonks too. Jason Polakow had custom shapes from Keith Taboul from Quattro as did most pro wave sailors. They were still stickered with their sponsors logo's.
Quite a few years back a tour of the Quattro factory and there are different windsurfing brand logos ready to be placed on custom boards.
Select to expand quoteAndyR said..
Agreed I'm trying to think of another sport that something like this happens in with gear etc and I can't... I do remember as a kid I drew a nike logo on my no name school shorts but my sponsor was my mothers bank account not a competing brand..
Footballers do this all the time with their boot sponsors, and their club many sponsored by an opposing company so they black out the boots.
Select to expand quoteskebstebamal said..
i dont think its a big deal. sic is happy, starboard must be happy and connor is winning... happy days.
And all the consumers and the other brands are cheated... there is more than one side to the picture.
The dark side of this is that you have people buying $2500 boards because "they must work, they win contests" and get some mediocre shapes and construction, often not adapted to their spot and practice... I see it a lot around my local spots. Granted, the brand sales rep has a shiny expensive car and seem happy... the consumers, not so much, once they try others boards or theirs fall apart. Although I guess that this kind of consumer would have wasted their money anyways on any kind of heavily marketed stuff...
In all honesty, I don't think what I write above is relevant to the specific case of SIC bullets: if ever Starboard was making a competitive model, this would have not a lot of influence on the models people will actually buy. Just like the Renault F1 cars have nothing to do with the production cars, whatever the marketing wants you to beleive... I was rather irked at photoshopping mainstream board & paddle models.
I know what you mean - won't somebody think of the children?
But really, no-one is buying a Starboard off the shelf after seeing Connor win an open ocean race on a SIC. No-one is that stupid. You really have to have more faith in the intelligence of the consumer.
I agree it would be better for everyone, (not least of all the anal retentives who worry too much about things that don't concern them), if Connor simply left the Starboard stickers off his Bullet. Should Starboard build an Unlimited just for Connor? Not if they have no intention of putting it into production. Otherwise, as soon as it appeared, there'd be every pain-in-the-arse customer demanding one of their own. And I'd probably be at the front of the queue. 
Let SIC have the monopoly on this end of the market. Raaphorst has done the hard yards, he deserves to reap the benefits.
Smoke and MirrorsMarketing is all about making the punter think they are getting something more , usually for lessPersonally i think it stinks. When Connor wins on his SIC does he thank them in his speech or does the praise go to starboard?
Guitar amplifiers and speakers is another one. A guitarist will be paid by Brand X to display their amps and logos on stage or in video clips. Under the hood of the amps the story can be totally different. Customized beyond recognition or even another amp builder's gear actually providing the sound unseen. The guts of the speaker cabinets could be comprised of anything.
The professional liars, sorry marketing gurus, peddle their version of the truth in all facets of life. Ok, maybe a little harsh. I'm sure there are marketers that do not deceive. I know I would hate to work in that field and try to maintain my personal integrity. Watch The Gruen Transfer and see how the pros can justify to themselves as perfectly OK what many would label a complete lie. There's big money in that there BS. Of course snake oil salesmen have been around since Adam was a boy. They are just a lot more sophisticated these days.
I would say putting a sticker like Quicksilver or Billabong on a board is OK even if that company did not make the board because they are not known primarily as board manufacturers. If the SUP had a REEF sticker on it, that's fine. However indicating that a particular manufacturer made a board that they didn't is clearly deceitful. Having two brands' stickers on the board would be acceptable. For example a Starboard and a SIC sticker on the same board may convey the truth in some cases. The paddler is sponsored by Starboard and SIC made the board. Of course that ain't going to happen, that's just too....honest? Just too weird these days.
I constantly remind my kids that most of what advertising presents should be carefully scrutinized as the law does not force them to be honest. In my book if you have to think for too long to determine whether something is truthful or not, it probably isn't.
Integrity is lost when this happens IMO, the question is whose fault is it?
Who has the power to dictate the terms/conditions of sponsorship? the sponsor or the sponsored?
Is the sponsored athlete owned by the sponsor 100% for all product placement 100% of the time.
For M2O Connor (or any other athlete) should ride under his name or brand they are actually riding and the prestige of doing well in that race should be enough to gain power to dictate terms to any sponsors for products any athletes wish to endorse/use.
Is this a classic case of "selling out"?
As far as I understand did Raaphorst and Starboard work together for a long time.
Raaphorst shaped there first SUPs and helped/shaped a lot of there raceboards in the beginning.
SIC is coming up with a productionline made in Thailand. i don,t know but I can IMAGINE that Starboard helped him to set that up as they have all the contacts and experience with that...
In windsurfing it used to be pretty common to give the top riders besides prototypes a custom budget as there needs are so different from what the rest of the world needs (due different weight, level of fitness, skills).
What they tried and learned with there customs they can (if its okay with the shaper) back as input to there sponsor hen producing better proto,s.
The point is, it only works if all party,s agree. Remember the Jimmy-Lewis vs Baxter vs Starboard afaire about pics of Baxter on a Starboard labeled Lewis custom...
Art in Surf is the sponsor and they contracted Blane Chambers to shape the customs and unfortunately they forgot to laminate the Art in Surf logo on the bottom.
At least Tom Carroll displayed both sponsor and shaper on his board CMC is referring too.
Most sponsors would ask the team rider to attend industry functions and pimp their wears.How
can someone like Conner stand in front of an audience and give a big shout out on how good
brand x is when most know he is riding brand Y
Well on starboards instagram account they are claiming conners win as theirs. Total domination was mentioned as well I think. So I think that is pretty misleading...lies I would call it
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said...
As far as I understand did Raaphorst and Starboard work together for a long time.
Raaphorst shaped there first SUPs and helped/shaped a lot of there raceboards in the beginning.
SIC is coming up with a productionline made in Thailand. i don,t know but I can IMAGINE that Starboard helped him to set that up as they have all the contacts and experience with that...
In windsurfing it used to be pretty common to give the top riders besides prototypes a custom budget as there needs are so different from what the rest of the world needs (due different weight, level of fitness, skills).
What they tried and learned with there customs they can (if its okay with the shaper) back as input to there sponsor hen producing better proto,s.
The point is, it only works if all party,s agree. Remember the Jimmy-Lewis vs Baxter vs Starboard afaire about pics of Baxter on a Starboard labeled Lewis custom...
You mean this one? 14'8 point I think it was called.
i think that it is disgusting that they are using other brands or using other paddles, why sign with a sponsor if they don't offer what you want (apart from money)
you think with the amount of Hawaiian races in their racing season and the fact that most of the people are using unlimited for the downwind races
that starboard would just make an unlimited prototype for their riders so they would be riding their equipment, the same with paddles, i don't see why a company as big as starboard etc cant make adjustments or make a signature paddle that that rider would use, i know for sure that if i saw a rider using a paddle from brand x but stood on the podium with a paddle from their sponsor, i would be buying the paddle from brand x as it must have something better going for it if they raced with it, but then this is just my 2c as a consumer
Jarryd
You got my green. For the experts that say people.should be more educated in their purchase and not follow a certain team rider to decide what they will buy. Well wake up,especially you Mr woody/starboard/fan boy
Why do these companies pay the bucks to riders? So people are influenced and or relate to the certain team rider to a so called brand to buy their product. It's a scam and starboard to seem to be the innovator's of scams when it comes to sup.
Plus everyone should no Conner was not on a starboard because it was not a canoe
Select to expand quoteJradedmondo said..
i think that it is disgusting that they are using other brands or using other paddles, why sign with a sponsor if they don't offer what you want (apart from money)
you think with the amount of Hawaiian races in their racing season and the fact that most of the people are using unlimited for the downwind races
that starboard would just make an unlimited prototype for their riders so they would be riding their equipment, the same with paddles, i don't see why a company as big as starboard etc cant make adjustments or make a signature paddle that that rider would use, i know for sure that if i saw a rider using a paddle from brand x but stood on the podium with a paddle from their sponsor, i would be buying the paddle from brand x as it must have something better going for it if they raced with it, but then this is just my 2c as a consumer
Jarryd
There is really only one contentious issue here - Connor Baxter putting Starboard stickers on a SIC so that he can compete in Hawaiian downwind races. Outside of that debatable practice, I don't think there's anything to see here. If Starboard doesn't intend to sell an unlimited board, I can understand why they don't make a one-off. Jamie Mitchell doesn't either, preferring to use a SIC when he is paddling in unlimited situations. Dave Kalama uses a SIC rather than his board sponsor's product when doing M2O. I suggest we either lighten up on this and let the best paddlers use whatever they want in Molokai, or we will see the big brands send their riders out on 14' and the unlimited class could die a slow death.
As for paddles, I'm not sure that anyone has accused Starboard or Connor Baxter of stickering up a paddle so perhaps you are confusing the general paddle observation that someone made earlier in this thread with the specific case of Connor and the SIC Bullet.
Select to expand quotechrispy said..
You got my green. For the experts that say people.should be more educated in their purchase and not follow a certain team rider to decide what they will buy.
I didn't say people need to more educated. I said they already are. They are far smarter than you give them credit for. Seriously, do you really think there are idiots out there who are blindly buying a board based on their favourite sponsored rider? Give it a rest. People who follow the top riders are few and far between, and they tend to know an Ace from a Bullet. You should try being less cynical and negative, maybe believe in people just a little bit.
That's great advice PT,believe in people
,unfortunately the people you are referring too have double standards its up to you to judge.Personally I don't respect these types however you may and that's fine by me.
I think you need to lighten up,we all know this brand in question is dear to your heart shaped canoe's
Select to expand quotePTWoody said...chrispy said..
You got my green. For the experts that say people.should be more educated in their purchase and not follow a certain team rider to decide what they will buy.
I didn't say people need to more educated. I said they already are. They are far smarter than you give them credit for. Seriously, do you really think there are idiots out there who are blindly buying a board based on their favourite sponsored rider? Give it a rest. People who follow the top riders are few and far between, and they tend to know an Ace from a Bullet. You should try being less cynical and negative, maybe believe in people just a little bit.
So canoe board just pay Connor money because he is cool. . Then what do canoe board pay Conner money for then? You make me laugh with your brilliance
today i paddled a gerry lopez board with a quickblade paddle. i didn't realise its just so wrong
