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What Killed them?

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Created by LSD > 9 months ago, 14 Sep 2010
LSD
VIC, 763 posts
14 Sep 2010 9:42PM
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Interesting paddle up the Anglesea river this arvo, water has turned crystal clear...I mean clear like a swimming pool....& all the fish are dead on the bottom, including eels.
Whatever has killed the fish also "flocked" the water clear like aluminium sulphate, there is a fine layer of sediment on the bodies.
Anyone have some ideas? It may be natural, it happened last year a few days after heavy rain, in the Anglesea river & Aires Inlet river, because of this, I don't think its related to the Anglesea power station.

Piros
QLD, 6932 posts
14 Sep 2010 9:50PM
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Mate freeze them and contact Julian Pepperell this guy is the king of marine biology and I'm pretty sure he has government support.

www.julianpepperell.com

laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
14 Sep 2010 9:53PM
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might be one for the EPA.even national parks dudes answer to these guys
cheers

DavidJohn
VIC, 17434 posts
14 Sep 2010 10:28PM
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Maybe it was the smell from someones smelly foot...

DJ

planesailing
WA, 380 posts
14 Sep 2010 10:02PM
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I dunno Dean, but I sure as hell wouldnt be touching them...

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
15 Sep 2010 12:33AM
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Something fishy is going on ...
I wonder what is causing the flocculation... There is potential that natural minerals and some salinity are reacting to cause flocculation. Then positive and negative charged particles stick together... Hydroxides come into play... And is that then stripping oxygen from the water... ???

Someone should know though ...

A little more research tells me that the flocculant aluminum sulphate does occur naturally in volcanic environments and in coal. And there is plenty of coal through there. So that might start to explain the flocc ..... And I would put $5 down to say this stuffs up the usual water quality, to vary either ph levels or add hydroxides, and or strip oxygen...

oliver
3952 posts
14 Sep 2010 10:48PM
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It is disturbing. It doesn't sound natural, but I've got no idea. There has certainly been a lot of rain and much of it has run off from the surrounding land into the river. Has your local newspaper picked up on it?

Let us know when you get a plausible answer for it.

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
15 Sep 2010 12:54AM
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I also found this ....
Sodium hydroxide reacts with aluminium and water to release hydrogen gas. The aluminium takes the oxygen atom from sodium hydroxide (NaOH), which in turn takes the oxygen atom from the water, and releases the two hydrogen atoms.

So it does appear to be plausible that it is happening naturally ....

oliver
3952 posts
14 Sep 2010 11:04PM
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Hmmm, I just read this article: earthsci.org/processes/weather/acidrain/acidrain.html

I thought these three points were interesting:

WHAT IS ACID RAIN?
Main source of acid rain is sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides in the atmosphere.

Power plants are a major source for sulfur dioxide and as well nitrogen oxide.


The problem with aluminium

In this form it is easily absorbed into the water. When it comes in
contact with fish it causes irritation to the gills. In response the fish
creates a film of mucus in the gills to stop this irritation until the
irritant is gone. However the aluminum does not go always and the fish
continues to build up more and more mucus to counteract it. Eventually
there is so much mucus that it clogs the gills. When this happens the fish
can no longer breath. It dies and then sinks to the bottom of the lake.
Scientists now see acid, aluminum and shortages of calcium as the three
determining factors in the extinction of fish.


Acid lakes are deceivingly beautiful. The are crystal clear and have
a luscious carpet of green algae on the bottom. The reason that these
lakes are so clear is because many of the decomposers are dead. They
cannot break down that material such as leaves and dead animals. These
materials eventually sink to the bottom instead of going through the
natural process of decomposition. In acid lakes decomposition is very
slow. "The whole metabolism of the lake is slowed down."

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
15 Sep 2010 1:17AM
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there is a power station there
Well done Oliver.

LSD
VIC, 763 posts
15 Sep 2010 8:44AM
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I wouldn't focus too much on the power station, as I sad, last years event happened at the same time at Aries as well, quite a separate area. (Up wind of any power station pollution)
Also that event was tested by Bawon water & they placed signs at the river bank saying dont swim in the water as it had become alkaline......not Acid.
So what is causing the alkalinity? My uneducated guess is there is something coming out of the water table after rain changing the PH?

oliver
3952 posts
15 Sep 2010 6:55AM
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The Power Station dumped far too much sodium hydroxide into the river to offset the damage the acid rain was causing.

termite
NSW, 283 posts
15 Sep 2010 9:01AM
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Probably caused by acid sulfate soil run off. The soils are natural but flood mitigation works and artificial drains cutting into the groundwater usually mobilise the run off and prevent saltwater buffering the system. Acid water dissolves aluminium and other metals and these flock out when seawater buffers the ph back up. These metals are quite toxic and swimming in what is effectively battery acid is also a poor lifestyle choice for a fish.

some info on http://www.clw.csiro.au/acidsulfatesoils/

Bill

LSD
VIC, 763 posts
15 Sep 2010 9:31AM
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termite said...

Probably caused by acid sulfate soil run off. The soils are natural but flood mitigation works and artificial drains cutting into the groundwater usually mobilise the run off and prevent saltwater buffering the system. Acid water dissolves aluminium and other metals and these flock out when seawater buffers the ph back up. These metals are quite toxic and swimming in what is effectively battery acid is also a poor lifestyle choice for a fish.

some info on http://www.clw.csiro.au/acidsulfatesoils/

Bill


Thanks Bill.....I think you may be on the right track....the CSIRO maps show high probability of the soils that can cause the event.

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
15 Sep 2010 10:02AM
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I might ring Barwon Water and my mate at the power station, to see if they know.

oliver
3952 posts
15 Sep 2010 9:45AM
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LSD said...

Also that event was tested by Bawon water & they placed signs at the river bank saying dont swim in the water as it had become alkaline......not Acid.
So what is causing the alkalinity? My uneducated guess is there is something coming out of the water table after rain changing the PH?



LSD said...

termite said...

Probably caused by acid sulfate soil run off. The soils are natural but flood mitigation works and artificial drains cutting into the groundwater usually mobilise the run off and prevent saltwater buffering the system. Acid water dissolves aluminium and other metals and these flock out when seawater buffers the ph back up. These metals are quite toxic and swimming in what is effectively battery acid is also a poor lifestyle choice for a fish.

some info on http://www.clw.csiro.au/acidsulfatesoils/

Bill


Thanks Bill.....I think you may be on the right track....the CSIRO maps show high probability of the soils that can cause the event.



Don't get this... is it Alkaline or Acid?

LSD
VIC, 763 posts
15 Sep 2010 11:58AM
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The case is closed.
It is a natural event along the lines of what Bill said, the EPA, & the Surfcoast Shire are aware of it, they have told me the same story.
The end result after a heavy rain is a very low PH level......& the fish are not fond of that.

oliver
3952 posts
15 Sep 2010 10:23AM
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Yeah, Seems like a similar event happened there in 2000


ANGLESEA RIVER ESTUARY CLEARED FOR SWIMMING AND FISHING
20 October 2000

Acid levels in the Anglesea River have dropped and the Environment Protection Authority has cleared the waterway for swimming and fishing.


Last month, dead fish and other aquatic life were found in the Anglesea River estuary after an unusual phenomenon when the river turned bright blue.

Regular monitoring by EPA showed that the river had high acidity levels, and signs were erected closing the estuary to swimming and fishing.

EPA investigations have traced the acid water to sulfate-rich groundwater in the Anglesea River catchment, especially Salt Creek.

EPA, the Department of Human Services, the Department of Natural Resources and Environment and the Surf Coast Shire are continuing investigations into the acid levels in the river and the catchment.

The Department of Human Services has advised that the risk of eye irritation from the water has now passed and that testing of the water and fish has shown no particular health risks.

EPA will continue to monitor the estuary and any further information will be made available to the public.

MEDIA ENQUIRIES: Lawana Crimeen or Christine Giles, EPA Information Centre
Telephone: (03) 9695 2703 or 9695 2704
Mobile: 0401 140 862 or 0411 116 079

Simondo
VIC, 8020 posts
15 Sep 2010 12:35PM
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Thanks for that Oliver!

lmgtfy.com/?q=Oliver+is+a+legend

DILLIGAF2
218 posts
15 Sep 2010 12:01PM
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Sounds like a case for that guy 'Wanker'

oliver
3952 posts
15 Sep 2010 12:28PM
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LOL ^^^ I forgot about that guy ^^^

Yeah we need to get 10,000 sups paddling down the Anglesea river and into portphilip heads and then all eat flathead to show em that it's f..cked up



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"What Killed them?" started by LSD