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tell the dogman "your inner secrets"

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Created by tha dogman > 9 months ago, 7 Apr 2013
Kami
1566 posts
9 Apr 2013 6:23AM
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7'11" 28" and 6'10" 28 both channeled bottom, <100liters


This is what i would better buy in a shop rather than shaping them in my garage , so please do that kind in a TufLite versus



Give more info of your 8'6"/28 good board for all around playing.

Redfezz
NSW, 73 posts
9 Apr 2013 3:32PM
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Congrats Dogman I,m sure what ever you make it will surf really well.

Wow Kami those two boards remind me of the old clinker bottoms that Byrne surfboards used to make in the 80s, they surfed really well and went like a scaled cat.
I like to know more about these boards shown in the photo are they your customs?or are they some french secret factory boards.
Whats old is new again

Dogman it might be worth looking into some these old shapes/designs and incorporating into a SUP shape one day

Red heeler for mine.


Kami
1566 posts
9 Apr 2013 4:35PM
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Redfezz said...

Congrats Dogman I,m sure what ever you make it will surf really well.

Wow Kami those two boards remind me of the old clinker bottoms that Byrne surfboards used to make in the 80s, they surfed really well and went like a scaled cat.
I like to know more about these boards shown in the photo are they your customs?or are they some french secret factory boards.
Whats old is new again

Dogman it might be worth looking into some these old shapes/designs and incorporating into a SUP shape one day

Red heeler for mine.





Joe,i'm please you appreciate my last boards and you know where there influence come from. I start shaping my own board at 13 old and Iwill do it for fun for ever .They are my last boards i shaped myself and YES these channels works great on SUP , I tested the 6'10" last sunday on 2" offshore , she just flies and as you mean"like a scaled cat" .I added an inlet ( kind of twinzer)to give more bite on the outside channel. Because these big shortboard are hard to sink the rail on the line.

I had channels for 5 boards( sup) they are all favorite of my 11 board I had allready tested. Except this 7'11" because never used it
I tried Twinzer 8'9" round pin with flyers and a 6'9"/28 flex tail with pieces of bodyboard on the back, kind of magic...



Old concept like MR twinfin concept might work great on a SUP.

I'm sure what old is new again and people like DogMan will shape those creative boards , as an artist and surfer he is.
My opinion is the trouble for an artist to duplicate in china and broadcast overworld their products.
People have to afford boards staight of shaper , they will work for sure and be done by surfers not anybody else.
Keep on good work, DogMan

surfershaneA
863 posts
9 Apr 2013 5:22PM
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I am honestly amazed no one over here is going the simsup direction. They are absolutely raving about them on the American forums. A lot ain't much wider than 28' and are going around 8' and just under. If I had the cash I would import one.

surfershaneA
863 posts
9 Apr 2013 5:23PM
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Select to expand quote
surfershaneA said...
I am honestly amazed no one over here is going the simsup direction. They are absolutely raving about them on the American forums. A lot ain't much wider than 28' and are going around 8' and just under. If I had the cash I would import one.


Hey, not getting pushy. Just hit quote instead of edit!

malibujet
QLD, 59 posts
9 Apr 2013 7:34PM
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I'm with the big guys re the size @ 9'3". I just rode my new custom for the 1st time today at Noosa. Shaped by Peter White (Classic Malibu) 9'3" x 31" wide Swallow tail flyer. Bamboo deck and bottom with carbon fibre rails. The size seems good for my size (6'2" & 98kg). "Rottweiler" for the big boys.

tha dogman
NSW, 2912 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:08PM
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holy crap how cool does that board look with the rasta deck pad, Kami...

thanks for all the input crew

my mind is spinning now.....yer like it wasn't spinning before.....derrrrr

Deano72
NSW, 540 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:54PM
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Kami said...


7'11" 28" and 6'10" 28 both channeled bottom, <100liters


This is what i would better buy in a shop rather than shaping them in my garage , so please do that kind in a TufLite versus



Give more info of your 8'6"/28 good board for all around playing.


Sick lookin boards!!
Channels rock combined with a big single concave
Never surfed a SUP with them but love them on a short board.
I'm frothin' just thinking about the extra squirt they would give you driving off the bottom.
Want one!!....or two

Kami
1566 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:22PM
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Deano72 said...

Sick lookin boards!!
Channels rock combined with a big single concave
Never surfed a SUP with them but love them on a short board.
I'm frothin' just thinking about the extra squirt they would give you driving off the bottom.
Want one!!....or two

The purpoise to put channels on these bigboards was to reduce the fin's size usually fitted on a SUP as well to put Drive off the bottom
This is first channel bottom SUP and still my favorite 7'11",lot of rocker with traditionnal setting of concaves, single in the nose to the middle and double blended with channels .
I surfed it on 4 feet over reef on my last trip in january13 in French carribeean with the white line TC as you can see ; there is the good combo of fin. LOOSE aND RELIABLE

Concaves on the blue board are curve, they are straight on the rasta 7'11"

Almost belly in the nose to double concave blended "flutes"in the back, I have to try soon...

Redfezz
NSW, 73 posts
10 Apr 2013 7:44AM
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Kami ,
I wish I could find a photo of the old Byrne clinker bottom twin fin, as far as I know they were the only ones making them, with the larger deeper channeled bottom. The channels on the rails were at least 1 inch deep, I had a couple of them during my hey day(when I could surf). They were only ever produced in a twin fin so when thrusters came out they just fazed out. Most guys went for the thruster because of the extra drive off the bottom and ability to snap of the top and obviously they took a lot of extra time and effort to shape.
Now I,m getting emotional ,AHHH the good old days, The older I get ,the better I surfed.

Red
PS I absolutely love that 7,11, NB Dogman

Deano72
NSW, 540 posts
10 Apr 2013 11:20AM
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Redfezz said...

Kami ,
I wish I could find a photo of the old Byrne clinker bottom twin fin, as far as I know they were the only ones making them, with the larger deeper channeled bottom. The channels on the rails were at least 1 inch deep, I had a couple of them during my hey day(when I could surf). They were only ever produced in a twin fin so when thrusters came out they just fazed out. Most guys went for the thruster because of the extra drive off the bottom and ability to snap of the top and obviously they took a lot of extra time and effort to shape.
Now I,m getting emotional ,AHHH the good old days, The older I get ,the better I surfed.

Red
PS I absolutely love that 7,11, NB Dogman




Crazy concave / channel bottom beasts continued well beyond the twinnie era.
Byrning Spears (Al Byrne & Thorton Fallander) did some sick boards during the 80's!!
1/2" concave under your front foot and 3/4" deep channels out through the tail.
Remember Kong taking apart Sunset back in the day.....guess what he was riding.
AB is still shaping them www.byrningspears.com/about/board-design/

colas
5046 posts
10 Apr 2013 3:12PM
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surfershaneA said...
I am honestly amazed no one over here is going the simsup direction. They are absolutely raving about them on the American forums. A lot ain't much wider than 28' and are going around 8' and just under. If I had the cash I would import one.


Just go to your local shaper and order one :-) Be careful on what you read on standup zone however, the site is heavily censored, and posts about boards that sponsors do not like are edited out and the accounts banned...

Anyways, Glad to see another creative mind designing a SUP range. I guess most people interested in Dogman's boards will look for boards fit for the Dogman style they can see in the videos: carving, on the rail surfing in serious waves... and I guess kami shapes would perfectly fit the bill...

Kami
1566 posts
10 Apr 2013 4:35PM
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Deano72 said...
Redfezz said...

Kami ,
I wish I could find a photo of the old Byrne clinker bottom twin fin, as far as I know they were the only ones making them, with the larger deeper channeled bottom. The channels on the rails were at least 1 inch deep, I had a couple of them during my hey day(when I could surf). They were only ever produced in a twin fin so when thrusters came out they just fazed out. Most guys went for the thruster because of the extra drive off the bottom and ability to snap of the top and obviously they took a lot of extra time and effort to shape.
Now I,m getting emotional ,AHHH the good old days, The older I get ,the better I surfed.

Red
PS I absolutely love that 7,11, NB Dogman




Crazy concave / channel bottom beasts continued well beyond the twinnie era.
Byrning Spears (Al Byrne & Thorton Fallander) did some sick boards during the 80's!!
1/2" concave under your front foot and 3/4" deep channels out through the tail.
Remember Kong taking apart Sunset back in the day.....guess what he was riding.
AB is still shaping them www.byrningspears.com/about/board-design/


Red, you are a providence, please find these photos of the old Byrne clinker bottom twin fin because this is what i look for. Probably HOT STUFF boards , I've seen some... For me SUP is a twin , the paddle the third fin; An extra edge outside the Twin and a groove on the tail can be usefull with a paddle like third and as moving fin.
I test this board whith that fins H1 PC7 as trailing fin , for me this trailing fin is too much fin. I had to move the font one more inside and back, then reorganising channels dimensions. Your photo will be wellcome

This photo will be important to help drawing fins aside channels position .

Like you, i'm getting old and SUPsurfing give me a extra ball in my surfing life that i would'nt expect 4 years ago,started SUP. wish us a lot more waves to take off!



Dean, Yes AB is the Master. The boards he made to Gary E is still a reference. I had the luck to share waves with Gary at my homespot where he was expatriate by late 80 until bigining 90. His surfing by Biscaye winter strong swell on my beach break, I've seen him stopping thick lip by reentring the waves, amazing.. it was by cold morning session
Also, He surfed that board when he did 'nt came trhougt the final at G.LAND, he should be at the first place with his backside attack on this wave, only allowed with this type of board.
The only trouble with concave is , they are sliding off the lip when no pressure applies on it. But this is a luck for SUP to make easier reentries move

I wish shapers like AB can do a SUP version , there is addicted for sure!

Towny
NSW, 903 posts
10 Apr 2013 10:05PM
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I'd - 10kg for weight divisions and rethink channel bottoms for mass production as not many short boarders ride them any more, even in Indo, I have had many good surfers check out one of my channel bottomed boards,pretty sure glassers are not big fans of them either..

tha dogman
NSW, 2912 posts
10 Apr 2013 10:34PM
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oppphsss had a knock on and deleted this:

insane boards kami

mate I've just got off a long winded phone call with tully frothing about your channel bottom sups......him and his old man are toying with some crazy mutant shortboard with a similar headspace ATM......classic

my current headspace is leaning towards going with a featherweight, middleweight and heavyweight option on the current shape I'm riding.

next question is "how to pigeonhole" the target weight divisions???????

exibit A
feather weight max 75-80kg 85L 8'0 x 27
middle weight max 85-90kg 95L 8'6 x 27
heavy weight max 110-115kg 125L 8'10 x 31

the max weight is around the point it will be nearly impossible to paddle it without a snorkel n goggles (so any thing under those weights will be fine) with good balance)

ccarter
QLD, 76 posts
10 Apr 2013 10:47PM
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tha dogman said...
oppphsss had a knock on and deleted this:

insane boards kami

mate I've just got off a long winded phone call with tully frothing about your channel bottom sups......him and his old man are toying with some crazy mutant shortboard with a similar headspace ATM......classic

my current headspace is leaning towards going with a featherweight, middleweight and heavyweight option on the current shape I'm riding.

next question is "how to pigeonhole" the target weight divisions???????

exibit A
feather weight max 75-80kg 85L 8'0 x 27
middle weight max 85-90kg 95L 8'6 x 27
heavy weight max 110-115kg 125L 8'10 x 31

the max weight is around the point it will be nearly impossible to paddle it without a snorkel n goggles (so any thing under those weights will be fine) with good balance)


go 28 for the short boards help the old fellas with dicky knees a bit

Kami
1566 posts
10 Apr 2013 8:56PM
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tha dogman said...
insane boards kami

mate I've just got off a long winded phone call with tully frothing about your channel bottom sups......him and his old man are toying with some crazy mutant shortboard with a similar headspace ATM......classic

my current headspace is leaning towards going with a featherweight, middleweight and heavyweight option on the current shape I'm riding.

next question is "how to pigeonhole" the target weight divisions???????

exibit A
feather weight max 75-80kg 85L 8'0 x 27
middle weight max 85-90kg 95L 8'6 x 27
heavy weight max 110-115kg 125L 8'10 x 31

the max weight is around the point it will be nearly impossible to paddle it without a snorkel n goggles



Dimension seems to me coming in second position after buyoncy.
For example, my weight 76kg and the board around 7 with accessories. So a total weight of 83kg which need a minimum volume of 83 liters .
More volume put your feet upon the board and make your balance weaker. You can involve this stability by the width at the exact position( 1" back) of your stand up gravity .And surf that 27" SUP in clean condition, no choppy one. You know...

So the "pigeon hole"* would be as close as possible of weight. I might let the marketting scale gaps of weight.

27' seem to me radical width but i 'm 58. Your board will fit SUPers incoming from Surfing ? this is why mutant board from GONG are so wide because Supers come from Windsurfer or Kiter and these wide boards are accurate for weak waves than a surfer from OZ would'nt look
DogMan , keep on shaping board for surfers[}:)]



*i don't understand some Aussie idiomatic, sorry, more beer please

LAZZA1964
VIC, 107 posts
10 Apr 2013 11:11PM
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tha dogman said...
oppphsss had a knock on and deleted this:

insane boards kami

mate I've just got off a long winded phone call with tully frothing about your channel bottom sups......him and his old man are toying with some crazy mutant shortboard with a similar headspace ATM......classic

my current headspace is leaning towards going with a featherweight, middleweight and heavyweight option on the current shape I'm riding.

next question is "how to pigeonhole" the target weight divisions???????

exibit A
feather weight max 75-80kg 85L 8'0 x 27
middle weight max 85-90kg 95L 8'6 x 27
heavy weight max 110-115kg 125L 8'10 x 31

the max weight is around the point it will be nearly impossible to paddle it without a snorkel n goggles (so any thing under those weights will be fine) with good balance)


Hey dogman! I think the feather and middle need to be upped a little. Feather 90L and Middle 100L. I am 78 kgs and struggle on anything under 90 litres unless its super clean. When the ocean gets a little more serious I size up to a 100 L.! Thats my inner secret..

Kami
1566 posts
10 Apr 2013 9:12PM
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Towny said...
I'd - 10kg for weight divisions and rethink channel bottoms for mass production as not many short boarders ride them any more, even in Indo, I have had many good surfers check out one of my channel bottomed boards,pretty sure glassers are not big fans of them either..

For sure channel bottom is a nightmare glassing, the last epoxies better and better practical for this job but I wonder how can be done on a tuflite process
Good surfers are young and sadly few have imagination and they surf what the marketing show to them, only the older ones or the very young can jump on a SUP ...now
I would like so much get some Indonesian waves whatever I surf with.

balsawood
14 posts
11 Apr 2013 1:32AM
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Mate you rip those things.

gumballs
NSW, 408 posts
11 Apr 2013 3:37AM
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tha dogman said...
Piros said...
If you build it , they will ride it......... 8-2 x 28.5 x 4-0 ,apx 100litres , still should let the bigger units have a crack and chuck in a retro styled Stinger-flyer-swallow tail for the hell of it.


hahahahaha you know where ill be putting your flyers n stingers piros

and that won't be for daytime television viewing will it mate!!!!!!!

sorry but a strict policy of no sledgehammer dints

will be ruining a beautiful rail line

you know the deal...........lol


I've been thinking about Stingers ever since I started SUP(not saying that you should have any)but,it may help solve the width debate.Having a board say 31" at the widest point or just before (where you stand to paddle) is good for stability and then radically reducing the width to say 29" by using Stingers and pulling the tail in to a nice rounded pin or something would be good for turning at speed(of course with the correct rocker and concave/vee design).I saw a vid of Kai in Tahiti shot from in the water and when the camera was following him from under water there was a lot less board in the water than I had expected,I don't think those sledgehammer dents would get in the way to much.

Redfezz
NSW, 73 posts
11 Apr 2013 8:53AM
Thumbs Up

tha dogman said...
oppphsss had a knock on and deleted this:

insane boards kami

mate I've just got off a long winded phone call with tully frothing about your channel bottom sups......him and his old man are toying with some crazy mutant shortboard with a similar headspace ATM......classic

my current headspace is leaning towards going with a featherweight, middleweight and heavyweight option on the current shape I'm riding.

next question is "how to pigeonhole" the target weight divisions???????

exibit A
feather weight max 75-80kg 85L 8'0 x 27
middle weight max 85-90kg 95L 8'6 x 27
heavy weight max 110-115kg 125L 8'10 x 31

the max weight is around the point it will be nearly impossible to paddle it without a snorkel n goggles (so any thing under those weights will be fine) with good balance)




Hey Dogman,
Heres some food for thought , Looking at those weights and litre amounts , your targeting a very elite group of surfers , Personally speaking I would think anyone who can surf these type weights and sizes would be very proficient and would probably have there own preferred line of boards, also possibly sponsored if competition orientated.
To get these surfers to switch to your boards, you certainly have the cred but do you have resources to make them want to change?
I ,again think that you would be better off producing boards for a wider market ,bread and butter stuff getting a following and your getting name out there,then producing more performance shaped boards for those who want them.
I just can,t see the demand for those sizes being in large numbers currently ,might be different in yrs to come.

Please Dogman, these are only my thoughts and I maybe well off the mark, My current experience only equates to the south coast of NSW where SUPs are the domain of crusty old men the majority .


Cheers
Red
ps
I have been known to be wrong before. haha

BenKirk
NSW, 600 posts
11 Apr 2013 9:38AM
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Redfezz said...
Heres some food for thought , Looking at those weights and litre amounts , your targeting a very elite group of surfers , Personally speaking I would think anyone who can surf these type weights and sizes would be very proficient and would probably have there own preferred line of boards, also possibly sponsored if competition orientated.


I have to agree. There's a group of about 10 of us in Manly who SUP and we've been doing it for a while - 27" sounds very narrow. I'm at 90kgs, not bad at SUPing (my one board is a Fanatic ProWave 8'10") but would never be able to use a board that size and then 31" sounds too wide. Can't win really!

If it is glassy and not choppy (especially in the summer NE'rs) then maybe I'd be ok on the 8'6". Any chance of a board at about 28 and a half?

But Redfezz, as you say these could be purely for the hard core/pro level SUPers.

Good luck with it all!

tha dogman
NSW, 2912 posts
11 Apr 2013 10:47AM
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BenKirk said...

I have to agree. There's a group of about 10 of us in Manly who SUP and we've been doing it for a while - 27" sounds very narrow. I'm at 90kgs, not bad at SUPing (my one board is a Fanatic ProWave 8'10") but would never be able to use a board that size and then 31" sounds too wide. Can't win really!


But Redfezz, as you say these could be purely for the hard core/pro level SUPers.

Good luck with it all!


good point ben

structuring up the sizing is the biggest gamble

and also trying to cover enough of the range without compromising the main goal of a "super mega high" performance sup....lol

then trying to fit it into the surftech catalogue of boards without creating more overlaps or directly clashing with other boards that are already "current" and have a similar look......... looking at that now..........

the existing surftech boards

gerry lopez sweetie pie
8'5 x30 121L,8'10 x 28, 9'0 x30 130L

candice appleby
8'10 x 28 117L

Jamie Mitchell
9'8 x28 135L

all made in the new blue ultra flex construction which may be what we roll with construction wise until a proven shape is found...then nuclear bombproof it by running it in the tuflite construction



BenKirk
NSW, 600 posts
11 Apr 2013 12:58PM
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Fair enough - there's a few options already there that would be of relevance for the 28" wide boards and the 8'5" x 30" would be useful.

I have only bought boards from WSnS so only look at Fanatic, Naish, Starboard etc.. I'll take a look at Surftech.

Cheers

tha dogman
NSW, 2912 posts
11 Apr 2013 1:44PM
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hi ben

they have got a few options there and luckily a few holes to fill



hi lazza

it may sound selfish but (it won't be the first nor the last time for me)

but I've aimed the middleweight board to be exactly what i ride everyday @ 90kg.

so at least I'm a happy camper waking up in the morning and having to go to work surfing it all day.....lol.....

I'm really interested in where the hell this larger heavyweight model is going....... don't want to go too wide but for it too be user-friendly you got to have some "extra support" for those beautiful upsized creatures from the black lagoon to shred on.....lol...

OK this is a little disappointing...not much chatter on the featherweight model...(do any skinny guys get on this forum.....hahaha)

i had a good point thrown at me the other day. just like a screaming backhander from my good old nan.....

to make a smaller sup to accommodate some of the young up and coming shredders popping up all over the place.

and also as an option for our 2 new super hot female surftech teamriders to shred on.......

who's with me on "talking about hot chicks shredding it up on sups"......

enough of this "upsize me" model talk...haha








Redfezz
NSW, 73 posts
11 Apr 2013 2:20PM
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Select to expand quote
BenKirk said...

If it is glassy and not choppy (especially in the summer NE'rs) then maybe I'd be ok on the 8'6". Any chance of a board at about 28 and a half?

But Redfezz, as you say these could be purely for the hard core/pro level SUPers.



Ben,
You hit the nail on the head, when is it ever not windy on the south coast of NSW ?. The tides ,swell and wind aline ,a couple times a yr, its not like we get trade winds for 6 months then travel to the other side of the island for the next six months. Unless you have a quiver of several boards ,The average SUPer sacrifices performance for versatility .
I myself am looking to upgrade and I,m in two minds get the board that I know I can surf well or get a larger board in the same model that has a bit more stability and can handle the chop better.I talking about the Hokua 9.5 vs 9.10 ,I know I could do the 9.5 or even 9 ft but it would be hard work and not enjoyable.
So it just depends what market Tha Dogman is aiming for.........by the sounds of it very elite performance end of market.
cheers
Red


VALI62
NSW, 32 posts
11 Apr 2013 10:21PM
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Hey dogman

I went out and bought a laguna bay surftech 8'6 after borrowing the one out of your trailer late last year. Usually after I get a new board it takes about 2 months before I start planning the next one, but this time I'm absolutely stoked with my board. I weigh 90-95 kegs and it can be an absolute bitch to stand on if there is any backwash or chop, but worst case you fall off and then get back on again. There's nothing wrong with getting wet especially when your board surfs as well as the 8'6 does.

I love the fact that there is a bit of volume in the nose, but I would definitely want to demo a similar board with more of a shortboard style pulled in nose.

At 27 3/4 wide my surftech was fairly unstable at first but your balance soon gets better.

I recon you should stick to your guns and go for high performance. There are plenty of boards out there that are stable and user friendly and it seams with now with the carbon models they are now getting pretty light to.

Thanks for letting me demo the board from your surftech trailer. I for one am looking forward to surfing on one from you range.

Justin

Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
13 Apr 2013 6:36PM
Thumbs Up

hilly said...
tha dogman said...
big boys shorty Hp nose 9'3 x 30. (swallow / pin tail) truckstop model
the same board as the daily kibble just super sized up for my fellow maccas n hungryjacks lovers out there.......rock on gentlemen!!!!!!


Small wave version 9'3 x 31 wide solid wave version 9'6 x 29 wide

I got a 9'6 x 27
In regards to shapes I personally think that volume and thickness is important.

tha dogman
NSW, 2912 posts
13 Apr 2013 10:10PM
Thumbs Up

Greenroom said...
hilly said...
tha dogman said...
big boys shorty Hp nose 9'3 x 30. (swallow / pin tail) truckstop model
the same board as the daily kibble just super sized up for my fellow maccas n hungryjacks lovers out there.......rock on gentlemen!!!!!!


Small wave version 9'3 x 31 wide solid wave version 9'6 x 29 wide

I got a 9'6 x 27
In regards to shapes I personally think that volume and thickness is important.


it is very important greenie and its a personal thing too

different strokes for different folks

one of the construction we are looking at may have a window for "semi custom" modifications to be done to it ....which will incur a waiting period for construction and delivery

that ..... may open a lot more options for being able to tweak a model in the direction you'd prefer it to be..... wider shorter thicker or visa versa.......that is sounding so cool and may solve a few sleepless nights for me thinking about the right sizes to go with and blowing it totally

another exciting thing I'm frothing about is the layout of the graphics for the board

and how "over the top or plan jane" do you go...."death and destruction" or "peace love n brown rice"









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"tell the dogman "your inner secrets"" started by tha dogman