And I'm tired of listening to people having a sook about what really is a non issue.
You guys act like you're forced against your will into shark infested waters. What ever happened to surfers being watermen that respected the ocean?
You guys must watch too much ACA and Today Tonight.
"Serial killers on out beaches"
"Predators terrorize swimmers"
"Sharks lurking in our waters"
An so on. You lap it up like a bogan laps up ice coffee.
A healthy respect for sharks and what they can do is one thing, but all this histeria it's just unbelievable.
But we cant all be school teachers[}:)]
Can't really be bothered getting into this too thoroughly, but you guys should really put my study and work experience with sharks aside in these arguments. Everyone else brings up my experience (or lack of in some peoples eyes) far more than I do.
Regardless of whether I was pursuing a career in marine research and conservation, I would have the exact same opinion.
I say all these things as someone who goes in the water, not as an arm chair scientist confined to his office and books. I'd argue the fact that I am probably in the water than most of you guys. That's not a bragging right, but it's just likely given the position I am in at the moment.
In saying that, I am just as likely or unlikely to be attacked as any of you guys, if not more. I was there when the Wedge incident happened. I was meters from that Tiger Shark yesterday according to the lifesaver on the jetski that came out to me. I've been in the water with White Sharks, admittedly, against my wishes.
Put aside the fact that I go to university and am involved in research. It's irrelevant to how I feel on the topic.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but growing up in WA I was always aware of the potential risk from sharks when I went in the water, even as a little nipper and grom. I've always just considered it a fact of life if you're going to be an ocean user and a salty dog. I understand peoples concerns and apprehension, but I don't think anyone can defend the total histeria and overreaction of some people, driven by the media.
Yesterday with the Tiger Shark(s) was a prime example. Ch10 claimed to have spotted the shark at Trigg first and informed the SLA....bull5hit, that's not how it happened. They also claimed we were terrorised by the shark...also bull5hit, almost no one left the water even after the SLA guy on the jetski informed us of the situation. No one really cared, but boy did the media talk it up.
Yeah no worries Suba...my career choices have been due to my love of the ocean also...& I'm very happy you go along with the higher risk of attack from spending more time in the water at least. I just want you on our side mate, because you should be. You have a greater chance in the future of making a difference than we do, coz you'll have the "shark expert" tag & could one day be in a position to make a difference.
I was in the water not far from where the chopper came down below 20m a the crewman waved us out of the water, the guys on jet skis were informing us of the 3m tiger but there was no real push for anyone to get out NOW!!
I like the chopper and the ski and the fisheries boat being there as it lets you know where the shark is!!! When it turns away they all follow and we re enter the water
Was interesting to follow the news choppers when the area we surfed was cleared they flew up to a populated area to film all the "surfers refusing to leave the water" when the shark clearly was heading in the opposite direction
Was good surf too on Saturday , shizen from 6-8 ish then good from 8-10 am when spaghetti arms took over.....Bali tomorrow .....yehaaaaa dua bintang besar dingin sekali terima Kasi
Research left me so empty, don't know how you do it Suba 
^Careful with the drinks though Mocha!
Thanks Mick
I have to say though, I do think people have it a bit wrong when they think of shark/marine biologists in general. A lot of the experts are as salty as they come and spend plenty of time in the water. THey certainly aren't all bound by a chain to their books and numbers.
I'd love to see more cooperating between researches and commercial fisherman/ocean people because their observations and experience is worth taking notice of. But we then have to issue of many fisherman making claims based in what they see, without taking other things into account. An example is we get a lot of fisherman seeing lots more sharks around and claimin there is a population boom; but that is not a valid statement if you exclude all other reasons why people could be seeing sharks more.
Edit: mocha, I was probably right near you then. If you were ripping I probably have you on video too.
Slater like I was Suba!!!
Where u with a mate on a board and another on a sponge, far nth scabs far sth trigg?
At the risk of hijacking the thread
Check out the photo of Nusa Dua today on Magic Seaweed
Yeah about that spot, but not with anyone. Wasn't on a board, was just in the water with flippers and a camera.
@Suba...True I surfed with Fiona from the North Beach facility a couple of times back in 2003 when she was up to do some crayfish study where I used to live (can't say apparently its secret lol)...the thing is I personally think when it comes to the crunch there is some pressure on staff from management to go with the "requires more research" answer rather than admitting their are more sharks & protection is no longer required. Like some unwritten policies & procedures in the event of (sharks) to ensure ongoing funding, thus ensuring ongoing employment...facts are, people are seeing more great whites...if they were endangered, if they were low in numbers. We would not be seeing them so often & this is worldwide. Not just local...but I honestly think this outlook on ensuring ongoing financial backing for research is the encumberment to effective change. I'm not against research, just backing for great white protection.
Your probably right, a lot of sightings are probably being attributed as being great whites when some are probably other species...& of course I'm not quite right when I say other marine life are not protected. A lot of fish are these days with restrictions being put on the amount you are allowed to catch or the minimum size...I would be very happy with the protection of great whites removed, but a minimum size restriction on what your allowed to keep. I'm thinking about 2.9m
Problem with that is we need the big ones to continue the species. They cannot reproduce until they are in their mid teens which puts them at the 4m + range, and then they only have one, maybe two, pups at a time (the rest are eaten within the womb by the surviving pups) and the gestation period is considered to more than a year, but we cannot be sure.
They are born at around 1.5m in size so they start off somewhat sizable but grow very slowly, which is the biggest concern we have.
The sheer lack of knowledge on white sharks is, I think, the thing that threatens their survival the most. It's very hard to make decisions that involve their fate when you have a hard time predicting the outcome.
Fisheries decisions concerning lobsters, crabs, demersal species etc are quite easy because we know a considerable amount about the species involved. The data collected neatly fits mathematical models developed to quantify what the researches want to know to help them make decisions about fishing bans, marine protected areas etc. With White Sharks it's just VERY hard to know what to do when you have sooo little in the way of data.
I'd be nice if researchers thought outside the box a little. The lack of sharks tagged in WA is a big worry for me; where as the yanks at OCEARCH are tagging white sharks with relative ease in great numbers.
I have thought about getting into these discussions of yours for a while but have withheld...I feel for you boys out west and the last yrs events have been dreadful....but from my professional opinion its not too far out of the ordinary given the long term stats.....I have spent the last 15 yrs playing around with randomness, uncertainity and probability after studying it for 7 years before that.....especially with regard to low frequency high concentration events. I teach people like Suba whilst also working in the real world with a bunch of other scientists and engineers. We also do a lot of work in the risk perception space....over east where I reside we have had lots of recent shark issues in the news...no notable change in behaviour from my observations and far less hysteria as well. The media loves to beat this sort of stuff up......they love these sort of stories.....and if anyone seriously thinks that shows like ACA are actually news related then they should take a good look at themselves
A lot of our work over the last 7 or 8 years has looked at how changes can be explained by societal impacts like wealth, inflation and population.....I would love to know if anyone has really looked into the population argument as a few of you have alerted to on this topic. Clearly there are more people using the beach than 50 years ago - we also know the general population has increased, we know water users have increased, we know the number of water sports have increased, we know previously undesirable parts of the coast are now holiday hotspots and we know that surfing has contributed massively to this coastal change. Think Raglan, Byron, Nossa, Goldie, Crescent Head, Yamba, Marg River etc the list is endless.
So I would think that it would be plausible to investigate if the massive increase in the number of man (person) hours in the water explains this increase in recent times.......does anyone know if any study has been done like this? If so please post a link to it. There has also been some great work done on how the reporting of events like this have increased with access to communication and technology - maybe it could be argued that there were a lot more incidents previously but they were never reported..............
My personal view on sharks is that they scare the crap out of me and I try not to think about them. I also do not wish to see them harmed and believe that I am in their zone but I am happy to take the risk on. I surf at first light (hate crowds) as often as I can and have no issue paddling out when its still practically dark - even though this is not the wisest of choices . I often surf the reefs around home that are a good 20 minute paddle from the beach. I have been to Cactus several times and have spent 3 of my last 4 holidays over west in Gracetown. I have never seen a shark whilst I am in the lineup and will probably crap myself when I do.
Ted, sounds like you'd love the book I'm currently reading. Just a bit of light reading before bed.
Would love to hear more about your work and studies.
Also, PaddlePig, the beaches will never be totally safe, sharks or not. Fact of life.
As for the concerns for your son, well, I can't really get into that because I don't have children.
No worries mate. I think your arguements are valid and well written too, even though we disagree. Good stuff.
^^^Roger that Ted
PP don't be scared to surf due to your father status, I hope like me that you get major pleasure from surfing which in turn makes you a better person/father. It's true that kids make you take stock of your lifestyle and attitude towards life sooner than later for some (bit later for me!) but it's a unique sport that is unlike anything I've ever done and now all three of my boys have caught their first wave and the look on their faces is priceless and one I'll never forget. I was watching the Andy Irons tribute vid for about the tenth time the other day, there is a bit in it where he talks about his first wave and it gets me every time, the shark thing is in the back of my mind each time I surf but the feeling of being in the water doing something that has absolutely no impact on the environment and makes us feel so good overides it I'll add an image to back up this essay
not sure where it was mate just remember the joy on his face as he talked about it Think there is a series of vids called why I surf that I showed my students to help with an assessment I set them. I show the tribute vid to them as well as part of a media assessment, it's one of the most poignant bits of media I've ever seen and speaks volumes of the man and the surfing fraternity, bloody sad though
very dark and gloomy.epic waves though
Had some great input into this thread, awesome to see you breaking the silence Ted...I'll get into this when I've had 9 less James Boags...
We really need far more communication between people with pieces of paper & people with life experiences...not to say people with pieces of paper don't have life experiences or people with life experience don't have pieces of paper. I do wish they could give more credence to each others stance & remember not all valid knowledge comes from a published study that has passed a "hand it in" plagerism test haha ; )
