Forums > Windsurfing General

Finally got a smaller board

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Created by sboardcrazy > 9 months ago, 22 Mar 2011
sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
22 Mar 2011 5:53PM
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I've just got a 78 ltre board to use in 25kts +.It's a Tabou Pocket Wave 2005.I know I could probably have gone smaller but we don't often get consistent wind that strong here and this board was available for a test etc.
Took it for a test sail.Wow - what a difference! I actually enjoyed 25- 30kts and only had to worry about the sail being overpowering..It was lovely not to get bashed about like I do on the 95ltres..( I'm 64kgs).
Certainly gybes quickly! I was worried about using a smaller board as I havent used anything smaller than the 95 for 18months & previously my 86 ltre old board was my smallest.I actually pulled off the first 2 gybes! Then it went downhill but I actually got about half a dozen.The problem will be that I'll only get to use it half a dozen times a year so it will be hard to practise gybes.
I noticed it was very ' skatey' if I put any weight on my back foot going upwind but if it spun out it was easy to get back in.Gybed it on the face of a big chop & wow! it really grabbed & carved around ( I lost it on the exit).
For some reason I always sail a new board better the first time than the following sails [}:)] but hopefully I'll enjoy the next sail as much.Now I know why everyone else on their small boards in big winds don't get buggered after half an hour!

K Dog
VIC, 1847 posts
22 Mar 2011 6:05PM
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Nice one!

Dezza
NSW, 930 posts
22 Mar 2011 6:27PM
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great news! Hope you get it out again in the coming southerly

Grasshopper
NSW, 58 posts
23 Mar 2011 3:29AM
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I believe this is the day of the new board



sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
23 Mar 2011 9:32AM
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Yep..I was wondering if you got the massive stack I did gybing there..it was just when the gybes started going wrong.. Cripes I've got to straighten that front arm tip the rig into the gybe and go with it,get lower, keep further forward![}:)] Easy to see what you are doing wrong.. not as easy to fix it..I have felt what it feels like to let myself go forward with the rig so at least I know what it feels like..
I dont always wear a helmet but I thought being my first time on a new board it was probably a good idea..wasn't really an issue though.I think I need it more on the 95 in those conditions!
I won't be as big a dag now I have my new buoyancy vest!

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
23 Mar 2011 9:33AM
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Dezza said...

great news! Hope you get it out again in the coming southerly


If it comes on Friday am maybe.. suposed to be kayaking Fri pm /Sat..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
23 Mar 2011 9:38AM
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Jman said...

Grasshopper said...

I believe this is the day of the new board



Tabou 3s 96L nice




? Tabou Pocket Wave 78ltre..My other is a Tabou Rocket 95ltre..+ 125 Rocket..ARGH! I need a bigger car!

Trousers
SA, 565 posts
23 Mar 2011 10:45AM
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although you said you stacked it next, that gybing picture actually looks pretty good. i can tell from the wake you've carved nicely, and the nose is only just starting to lift before the flip, so you've kept up speed.

elbows down (keeps the nose down), rear hand back (pulls you over the centreline + more rig control), heel up (weight on the inside rail) = good form.

suspect you just need to flip a touch earlier now and you'll rocket out! giddey-up!

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
23 Mar 2011 12:01PM
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Trousers said...

although you said you stacked it next, that gybing picture actually looks pretty good. i can tell from the wake you've carved nicely, and the nose is only just starting to lift before the flip, so you've kept up speed.

elbows down (keeps the nose down), rear hand back (pulls you over the centreline + more rig control), heel up (weight on the inside rail) = good form.

suspect you just need to flip a touch earlier now and you'll rocket out! giddey-up!


Thanks..I want more room between me & the rig..

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
23 Mar 2011 11:20AM
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You're getting well kitted up now, Sue.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
23 Mar 2011 3:51PM
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Windxtasy said...

You're getting well kitted up now, Sue.




Yep other than a bigger car / van or trailer which I don't see coming soon I should be set now! Bring on the wind!

Dezza
NSW, 930 posts
23 Mar 2011 10:05PM
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Select to expand quote



If it comes on Friday am maybe.. suposed to be kayaking Fri pm /Sat..


Have to work on the priorities....when it's windy, go windsurfing [}:)]

Mark _australia
WA, 22482 posts
23 Mar 2011 7:37PM
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The gybe looks a bit too heavy on the back foot.

But you must be happy with the new (correct) mast - the sail set looks spot on

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
24 Mar 2011 3:16AM
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Mark _australia said...

The gybe looks a bit too heavy on the back foot.But you must be happy with the new (correct) mast - the sail set looks spot on

Yep what a difference the right gear makes! Smaller depowering sail - I could have had more downhaul that day but I was too lazy and had a headache from sailing the day before to come & whinch it on.
re back foot - In best Pauline Hanson voice..'please explain..??"
I've been thinking I often stuff up on the exit with the rig too far forward to grab or too powerfulOne reason is I don't switch my feet halfway on the small board & end up exiting with each foot in a front strap which generally works but it isnt the most powerful position to be in to control the power if I can grab the rig . What could cause the problem..is it
1 - rig flip too late
2- not throwing the rig back over my shoulder so its in the right spot to grab
3- not being low enough & far enough forward & rig tipped into the turn
4 - all of the above..

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
24 Mar 2011 3:21AM
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Select to expand quote
Dezza said...




If it comes on Friday am maybe.. suposed to be kayaking Fri pm /Sat..


Have to work on the priorities....when it's windy, go windsurfing [}:)]


I've been working on that.. I maybe able to sailboard in am & go crew on a yacht after...cross fingers

terminal
1421 posts
24 Mar 2011 7:51PM
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That's a good size for you as it has enough float to slog around if the wind drops - although the short length makes that a bit more tricky. Sail range is supposed to be 4.2 to 5.7m so as you develop the skill at getting it going, you should find you get to use it more than you expect.

A review by a sponsored rider.
http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/sailor/tabou_pocketwave78_05.htm

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
25 Mar 2011 9:35AM
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terminal said...

That's a good size for you as it has enough float to slog around if the wind drops - although the short length makes that a bit more tricky. Sail range is supposed to be 4.2 to 5.7m so as you develop the skill at getting it going, you should find you get to use it more than you expect.

A review by a sponsored rider.
http://www.boardseekermag.com/equipment_reviews/sailor/tabou_pocketwave78_05.htm


If I ever get out in the waves again it will go well..

Trousers
SA, 565 posts
25 Mar 2011 12:18PM
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sboardcrazy said...
re back foot - In best Pauline Hanson voice..'please explain..??"

I often stuff up on the exit with the rig too far forward to grab or too powerful. Is it:
1 - rig flip too late
2- not throwing the rig back over my shoulder so its in the right spot to grab
3- not being low enough & far enough forward & rig tipped into the turn
4 - all of the above..


So you seem to be leaning back in the photo, which weights the tail and slows you up. lean into the arc of the turn - you'll always have more weight on your rear foot (to carve the board), but don't lean back...your hips should be forward of your rear foot and it'll help you cut through chop and keep up speed. win-win huh?

for the flip get down low to anticipate the power of the rig, moreso in heavier weather. flipping early gives you more power because of the broader reach, so you need to be ready for it.

as soon as it flips, make sure the mast is on the inside of the turn - windward of the centreline. in your photo it's creeping out - which is okay at the start of the flip. if you're really banked the mast has to swing more upright on the flip so the clew doesn't drag in the water.

but if you try to catch it there, you have little leverage over the sail...you'll have to bend forward to reach the boom, losing your ability to carve and control the rig's power! best case: ugly exit, worst case: splash.

but with your weight and the mast on the inside of the turn, and being down low you are in a strong position to harness the power for good...e.g. your blazing exit to the raucous applause of the beach crowd.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
25 Mar 2011 1:57PM
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Trousers said...

sboardcrazy said...
re back foot - In best Pauline Hanson voice..'please explain..??"

I often stuff up on the exit with the rig too far forward to grab or too powerful. Is it:
1 - rig flip too late
2- not throwing the rig back over my shoulder so its in the right spot to grab
3- not being low enough & far enough forward & rig tipped into the turn
4 - all of the above..


So you seem to be leaning back in the photo, which weights the tail and slows you up. lean into the arc of the turn - you'll always have more weight on your rear foot (to carve the board), but don't lean back...your hips should be forward of your rear foot and it'll help you cut through chop and keep up speed. win-win huh?

for the flip get down low to anticipate the power of the rig, moreso in heavier weather. flipping early gives you more power because of the broader reach, so you need to be ready for it.

as soon as it flips, make sure the mast is on the inside of the turn - windward of the centreline. in your photo it's creeping out - which is okay at the start of the flip. if you're really banked the mast has to swing more upright on the flip so the clew doesn't drag in the water.

but if you try to catch it there, you have little leverage over the sail...you'll have to bend forward to reach the boom, losing your ability to carve and control the rig's power! best case: ugly exit, worst case: splash.

but with your weight and the mast on the inside of the turn, and being down low you are in a strong position to harness the power for good...e.g. your blazing exit to the raucous applause of the beach crowd.




So to get the mast in the right possy to grab I need to grab & throw the mast to windward more as it flips & I grab the boom?
Most of my gybing practise is done in lighter winds .I've found in lighter winds when you aren't really blasting if I try & you get forward & low it doesn't work..?? The kind of wind where you are only just planing as you enter..?? Is that just me or you have to be more upright for lighter winds..( especially sub planing..?)
I know I have to crouch & get forward in stronger winds but I find it really scary..I'll have to get aggro & go for it!
My riding instructor used to get me angry at times so I'd be more assertive with my horse and it worked!
Nothing like screaming along over chop at warp speed ( prob not with me but it feels like it! ) and thinking crap..now somehow I've got to get my foot out of the rear strap to start the gybe and let myself get pulled forward by the rig...

Trousers
SA, 565 posts
25 Mar 2011 3:27PM
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sboardcrazy said...
Nothing like screaming along over chop at warp speed ( prob not with me but it feels like it! ) and thinking crap..now somehow I've got to get my foot out of the rear strap to start the gybe and let myself get pulled forward by the rig...


yep - it's counter-intuitive. we naturally want to lean back from the sail to stop getting pulled over the handlebars. but here's the thing...rear hand back plus oversheeting de-powers the sail...the power is all gone! windsurfing teaches us to rely on the rig for balance, but here you steer the board around by foot pressure, mostly on your inside rail. and the de-powered sail magically loads up the mast foot without pulling at all! you can push down on the rig to keep the nose down (extra easy if you're leaning forward), but in a screaming gybe, you'll actually rake it behind you a touch and have a nice clear view un-obscured by the sail because your front arm is extended.

here's someone getting it right... (admittedly this smug b@stard is in azure calm waters, but the technique is the same, just bend ze knees deeper in rough water)




your torso twists naturally when you initiate the flip, keeping your shoulders parallel to the sail...which pushes the mast to the outside of the turn. i let go of my back hand, hold a split second as the sail flips, then pull the mast back towards the inside with the front hand to get it into possy for catching...the quicker in and lower I am, the more aggressive i need to do it. by the time the sail's all the way around, i want it sitting forward and tilted to windward - that's where i'll find the power to plane out...

i really improved my flip practicing sailing clew first. in lighter winds, follow the rig as you flip it, without letting go of the back hand, just do your foot change - you'll rotate and voila! you're clew first...congrats! sail around a bit, this is fun! the way you oppose the sail is to lean back from it, but to flip it, you'll need to get low (not rely on the rig for balance) and let go of your back hand, then pull the mast across your body as it flips and grab the other side. it'll improve your rig flipping no end, and give you a funky light wind gybe.

busterwa
3777 posts
25 Mar 2011 1:06PM
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[b]



lean forward more looks like your diggng in the back of the board and slowing it down.

nosinkanow
NSW, 441 posts
25 Mar 2011 5:07PM
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Hey Sue, looking good! I'm having the same probs as you but you are already way in front of me, I run out of puff in the middle of the gybe coz I'm not leaning forward enough and have too much weight on my back foot. Strange thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but the brain ain't correctin' it!

I've come up with an idea to all the experts. Sorry Sue not meaning to hijack your thread...but it could be useful for us both?

To really allow all the elements required for a carve gybe to be consistent (at speed) would it be a good idea if I practiced a carving 360? Coz I reckon this will force me to commit leaning into the turn with the sail and weight forward. To enable this to happen the sail has to be leaned perpendicular to the board and basically pointing into the centre of the circle in an imaginary pivot point. I'm not going to worry about the outcome of the 360, I could never come out of them correctly in the past anyway, I just want board and sail control/positon to stick in my head.

I'll worry about flipping the rig later.

Oh the other thing, while practicing this should I keep my rear foot in the strap (centre single strap wave style) or out gybe style? I only ask this as I want to practice for bottom turns too.

Any of this a good idea or bad?

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
25 Mar 2011 5:28PM
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nosinkanow said...

Hey Sue, looking good! I'm having the same probs as you but you are already way in front of me, I run out of puff in the middle of the gybe coz I'm not leaning forward enough and have too much weight on my back foot. Strange thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but the brain ain't correctin' it!I've come up with an idea to all the experts.
Sorry Sue not meaning to hijack your thread...but it could be useful for us both?

To really allow all the elements required for a carve gybe to be consistent (at speed) would it be a good idea if I practiced a carving 360? Coz I reckon this will force me to commit leaning into the turn with the sail and weight forward. To enable this to happen the sail has to be leaned perpendicular to the board and basically pointing into the centre of the circle in an imaginary pivot point. I'm not going to worry about the outcome of the 360, I could never come out of them correctly in the past anyway, I just want board and sail control/positon to stick in my head.

I'll worry about flipping the rig later.

Oh the other thing, while practicing this should I keep my rear foot in the strap (centre single strap wave style) or out gybe style? I only ask this as I want to practice for bottom turns too.

Any of this a good idea or bad?


. Strange thing is I know what I'm doing wrong but the brain ain't correctin' it!
Thats my problem..hijack all you want..

Trousers
SA, 565 posts
25 Mar 2011 5:32PM
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nosinkanow said...

if I practiced a carving 360: good idea or bad?


it's all cross-training. learning a 360 will help your carve gybe (and many other parts of your sailing). but i don't think you're really going for a 360 - you're trying to carve as hard and as far till you get backwinded. but that's kewl...it'll still teach you something about your sailing and how to commit to a carve.

terminal
1421 posts
25 Mar 2011 6:37PM
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I'm still trying to improve my % of planing exits.

Its much much easier in strong wind and flat water, so I'd recommend seeking that out for practising, but its usually rare.

Different boards will have an ideal radius of turn to keep them planing fast and its important to find out what it is. Also, the faster you go, the bigger the radius, and as the board slows round the gybe, it could be tightened slightly.

I think the key thing to planing exits is controlling the boards trim and radius of turn to keep the speed as high as possible.

Dont worry about planing exits unless there is enough wind for you to go into the gybe so fast you can imagine keeping the board planing without using the sail until you are exiting 45 degrees off the wind.
I comfort myself that coming out planing in lighter winds and choppy short waves needs a high skill level, so I dont get frustrated.

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
26 Mar 2011 10:23AM
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busterwa said...

[b]



lean forward more looks like your diggng in the back of the board and slowing it down.




Your front hand needs to be further back in the normal sailing position.

try entering the gybe on a broad reach and focus on keeping both your arms straight.




Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
26 Mar 2011 8:29PM
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Did you get out on it today? It was blowing hard in Sydney. I used my Tabou Rocket 105 and could have easily used an 80L board but I don't have one, at least not one made this century



sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
27 Mar 2011 9:42AM
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Mobydisc said...

Did you get out on it today? It was blowing hard in Sydney. I used my Tabou Rocket 105 and could have easily used an 80L board but I don't have one, at least not one made this century






Yep.I had to go early as I was going to crew on a yacht in the pm.Started with the 125 + 5.8m..chop too big & all over the place for the 125 but 100m lulls so no go for the 95..Kicked in a bit 15 - 25kt SSW so 95 + 5m..getting most of my gybes! Not brillant but getting around.I used some of the tips..leaned the rif into the turn ,aggressively pulled it back as I flipped & flipped earlier & it worked! That was if I wasn't really overpowered. I almost got one planing one in the chop but fell off the back.
I'll be buggered if I can get low & forward enough! Even if I bend my knees etc I still seem to end up upright.[}:)] I think I was doing that + entering with a straight front arm better earlier in the season..[}:)]
Anyway pretty happy as it was crappy in that you were in & out of the straps ..not enough wind one minute + too much the next.
Everyone else + the wind came as I left..
Grr I was really tired but I went sailing thinking it would be a nice rest... He had too much sail up . It was protected where we set off .I kept telling him it was 20 -25kts+ out there but it took halfway around the race before he reeefed & admitted he should have earlier.
I've now got a strained ankle & hobbling around on home made crutches. .You don't realise how much you rely on walking/ driving until you can't.. I better be right by next Thursday for the next S..[}:)] My partner went on another boat & he's pulled some muscles in his chest so we're both the walking wounded.. I think we're getting too old for this crewing business..At least if you have your own boat you can put appropriate sails up & get decent winches to make it easier..
Any tips on committing forward for a gybe..? any exercises you can do?

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
27 Mar 2011 9:50AM
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Now that you have a snappy little board try some fun jibes. Smack it into a piece of swell and spin it around in a tight radius jibe... with plenty of back foot pressure. You'll be surprised how quickly it will change directions and how much beach cred you'll get.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8028 posts
27 Mar 2011 10:01AM
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Waiting4wind said...

Now that you have a snappy little board try some fun jibes. Smack it into a piece of swell and spin it around in a tight radius jibe... with plenty of back foot pressure. You'll be surprised how quickly it will change directions and how much beach cred you'll get.


I think I've done a few tight radius ones..I'll try a few but I want to get longer broad reach ones so I plane out.The only one that kept planing yesterday was a larger radius than usual.I find I need to be really careful to oversheet properly as I enter so I don't lose it..
I didnt use the new small board yesterday as when I was out it was too gusty + not quite strong enough.It looked like it would have been ok for it when I was leaving.

Trousers
SA, 565 posts
27 Mar 2011 10:08AM
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sboardcrazy said...
.Kicked in a bit 15 - 25kt SSW so 95 + 5m..getting most of my gybes! Not brillant but getting around.I used some of the tips..leaned the rif into the turn ,aggressively pulled it back as I flipped & flipped earlier & it worked!


congratulations!! if you are managing the oversheet, kudos! it's one of the hardest parts of technical, elegant gybing.


Any tips on committing forward for a gybe..? any exercises you can do?


concentrate on gettin' them hips forward of you rear foot and over the centreline. knees go over feet, hips go over knees, shoulders go over hips. don't twist your torso until the flip. consider the angle of your feet as you gybe - if you were to lean forward without twisting you should be leaning forward right?



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"Finally got a smaller board" started by sboardcrazy