Forums > Windsurfing General

Fix my gybes

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Created by ikw777 > 9 months ago, 21 Mar 2011
Mark _australia
WA, 22280 posts
23 Mar 2011 4:27PM
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ok said...

buy a kite


Agreed. Much easier to learn.
But maybe ikw777 has a bit more commitment to doing something harder and more rewarding.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
23 Mar 2011 6:42PM
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Mark _australia said...

ok said...

buy a kite


Agreed. Much easier to learn.
But maybe ikw777 has a bit more commitment to doing something harder and more rewarding.




Grew out of inflatable beach toys a long time ago.

sharkbiscuit
820 posts
23 Mar 2011 7:05PM
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ikw777 said...

They suck.



puffin
235 posts
23 Mar 2011 7:10PM
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swoosh said...
you're flipping your rig too late


Yes. Without power to help you plane out on a broad reach, every jibe will end with a bit of a flare and a round up.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
23 Mar 2011 9:33PM
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ok said...

buy a kite


analogy: buy a boogie board and forget about doing a bottom turn on your surfboard

[in case you're a kiter in which case you won't understand the meaning of an analogy then this may assist - "Kiting is to Windsurfing as boogie boarding is to Surfing"]

terminal
1421 posts
24 Mar 2011 8:03PM
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If you imagine you have stalled and the board is pointing 45 degrees downwind, tha sail would flag totally out of your reach. Thats why you need to exit with speed, so the wind blows the sail back to you.
That's also why a lot of people screw the board up into the wind - to get the boom to swing round to them.

Its best to practice in strong winds and flat water to prove that speed works, then comes the difficult bit of adapting to doing it in everyday conditions.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
24 Mar 2011 11:02PM
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terminal said...


That's also why a lot of people screw the board up into the wind - to get the boom to swing round to them.


I have to admit I'm sometimes guilty of stomping on the (new) windward rail to bring the boom to me.

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
25 Mar 2011 9:43AM
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terminal said...

If you imagine you have stalled and the board is pointing 45 degrees downwind, tha sail would flag totally out of your reach. Thats why you need to exit with speed, so the wind blows the sail back to you.


That makes so much sense I can't believe I hadn't realised it before.
So many times that boom has been out of reach, leading to the impression that the board needs to be more square to the wind to make the boom reachable.
I can now see it's the lack of speed which is the problem.
Thanks.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7965 posts
25 Mar 2011 2:29PM
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Windxtasy said...

terminal said...

If you imagine you have stalled and the board is pointing 45 degrees downwind, tha sail would flag totally out of your reach. Thats why you need to exit with speed, so the wind blows the sail back to you.


That makes so much sense I can't believe I hadn't realised it before.
So many times that boom has been out of reach, leading to the impression that the board needs to be more square to the wind to make the boom reachable.
I can now see it's the lack of speed which is the problem.
Thanks.



So you mean the sooner you get going on a reach again after the flip the closer the rig will be for you to grab..so carve up after the flip..?

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
25 Mar 2011 12:54PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Windxtasy said...

terminal said...

If you imagine you have stalled and the board is pointing 45 degrees downwind, tha sail would flag totally out of your reach. Thats why you need to exit with speed, so the wind blows the sail back to you.


That makes so much sense I can't believe I hadn't realised it before.
So many times that boom has been out of reach, leading to the impression that the board needs to be more square to the wind to make the boom reachable.
I can now see it's the lack of speed which is the problem.
Thanks.



So you mean the sooner you get going on a reach again after the flip the closer the rig will be for you to grab..so carve up after the flip..?



Quite the opposite. Getting onto a reach will slow you down. Aim to finish 45 degrees downwind and the extra speed generated will blow the sail around to you, and leave you with plenty of speed to exit planing.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7965 posts
25 Mar 2011 4:52PM
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Getting onto a broad reach will slow you down.
I assume you mean a reach.. a broad reach is more downwind than a reach ( at least in sailing terms..?) I thought what was said above meant that the broad reach exit meant the sail was flying away from you so it wasn't accessable..? ( although yanking the mast back to catch it would fix that would'nt it?

Cripes I'm in overwhelm.. I'll just go out & do them & have a postmortem after

KenHo
NSW, 1353 posts
25 Mar 2011 6:10PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Getting onto a broad reach will slow you down.
I assume you mean a reach.. a broad reach is more downwind than a reach ( at least in sailing terms..?) I thought what was said above meant that the broad reach exit meant the sail was flying away from you so it wasn't accessable..? ( although yanking the mast back to catch it would fix that would'nt it?

Cripes I'm in overwhelm.. I'll just go out & do them & have a postmortem after



I think that the burden of trying to explain complex visual stuff in short typed sentences is starting to cloud things.


Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
25 Mar 2011 3:24PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Getting onto a broad reach will slow you down.
I assume you mean a reach..


Yes I meant a reach. Sorry. I have edited the original post so as not to confuse anyone else.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
25 Mar 2011 7:56PM
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Notwithstanding some of the new school freestyle moves the humble jibe is got to be one of the most complex / difficult windsurfing manouvers.

So many actions that need to be performed in the space of a few seconds and a big range of variables thrown in with different wind / water conditions.

lee1972
QLD, 921 posts
25 Mar 2011 7:06PM
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Jibing is over rated. I excel at the splash and dash version!
Ian, to be fair pulling of jibes at Red is a mission in itself all that confused chop, bull sharks, turtles and those pesky kiters to think about ans those bloody reefs that keep stealing my expensive fins!!!!!! . Those northen shandy drinking flatwater boys have it easy

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7965 posts
27 Mar 2011 2:23PM
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Waiting4wind said...

Notwithstanding some of the new school freestyle moves the humble jibe is got to be one of the most complex / difficult windsurfing manouvers.

So many actions that need to be performed in the space of a few seconds and a big range of variables thrown in with different wind / water conditions.


I'll have a session where I puff up with pride & think " I can do it!" Then the next one brings me back to reality..

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
27 Mar 2011 7:42PM
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Improving those loops.



Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
27 Mar 2011 6:52PM
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hey ikw, much better!
What are you doing that made the difference?

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
27 Mar 2011 9:28PM
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More forward on the board and pulling the sail across hard to windward during the rig flip. These loops are also help by the fact we were gybing in 1.5-2m swell today. Surfing the board gives you a bit more time to get sorted.

Mark _australia
WA, 22280 posts
27 Mar 2011 7:33PM
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I'm interested in the 16G turn down the bottom

(or perhaps a stack and then waterstsrt going back the other way huh

Roger303
NSW, 161 posts
27 Mar 2011 10:37PM
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I was taught (years ago) to gybe the rig first, (power it up fast just after the flip) and sail away (planing fast) with your feet unchanged from the previous tack. Once planing out of the gybe then move the feet into the new position. So gybe the rig first then feet second. Once you get good at this then the two separate moves become more like one move as they follow quickly at pace.
Of course you must enter the gybe fast travelling downwind. The speed of the board allows the aparent wind to lighten the rig allowing a fast flip, and by the time the true wind starts to build pressure back in the sail, you have already flipped the rig and are sailing out with your feet still back to front. Sheet in hard to keep the rig powered and the board planing before starting to move the feet.
Now days the 'lay down' is gybe is prevalent, (why? Because of the use of big fully cambered race sails?) but it seems to me that the rig gets flipped far to late and planing out is much harder or not a priority.
Anyway, the above is probably a bad gybe technique but it works for me on short boards. (I havn't managed a planing gybe on Formula yet).

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
27 Mar 2011 9:48PM
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Mark _australia said...

I'm interested in the 16G turn down the bottom

(or perhaps a stack and then waterstsrt going back the other way huh


Doing technical drawing with a GPS and Google Earth - It's a new art form.


terminal
1421 posts
27 Mar 2011 7:54PM
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sboardcrazy said...

Windxtasy said...

terminal said...

If you imagine you have stalled and the board is pointing 45 degrees downwind, tha sail would flag totally out of your reach. Thats why you need to exit with speed, so the wind blows the sail back to you.


That makes so much sense I can't believe I hadn't realised it before.
So many times that boom has been out of reach, leading to the impression that the board needs to be more square to the wind to make the boom reachable.
I can now see it's the lack of speed which is the problem.
Thanks.



So you mean the sooner you get going on a reach again after the flip the closer the rig will be for you to grab..so carve up after the flip..?



I think if you concentrate on the carve, the rest will fall into place - IF you are carrying enough speed round the carve. If you havent got enough speed, you wont plane out of the gybe and you can give up and tighten up the gybe to sail out of it off the plane.

wespyyl
WA, 118 posts
28 Mar 2011 1:54PM
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ikw777 if you make the exits on the gybes more like the entries you will probably stay on the plane.

When learning its easier to gybe from a broad reach to a broad reach as then your only carving 90 degress or so, so you lose less speed and the apparent wind will help flip your sail over.

If you have a fast constant curve carve then the sail will want to flip itself, providing your holding it right

KenHo
NSW, 1353 posts
28 Mar 2011 6:24PM
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I've spent the last 2 days in strong wind on flat water on new slalom gear, thinking about this thread, and working on my gybes.
I found the "keep the front arm straight" thing to be enormously useful. It really kept me leaning forward, which maintains speed through the carve, which leads to speed on the exit. Sheeting in at the same time kept the nose down and a nice, fierce feeling carve resulted.
I also found that in my best gybes, with maximum exit speed, I switched feet half way through, but kept carving the board, going form a toe-side turn, into a heel-side turn as I flipped the rig, and pulled the power straight on. I think that may be something that gets missed.
Lots of commitment required, but rewarded by a fast exit, so no pullover the front as the power gets yanked on immediately.

wespyyl
WA, 118 posts
28 Mar 2011 5:31PM
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KenHo said...

I've spent the last 2 days in strong wind on flat water on new slalom gear, thinking about this thread, and working on my gybes.
I found the "keep the front arm straight" thing to be enormously useful. It really kept me leaning forward, which maintains speed through the carve, which leads to speed on the exit. Sheeting in at the same time kept the nose down and a nice, fierce feeling carve resulted.
I also found that in my best gybes, with maximum exit speed, I switched feet half way through, but kept carving the board, going form a toe-side turn, into a heel-side turn as I flipped the rig, and pulled the power straight on. I think that may be something that gets missed.
Lots of commitment required, but rewarded by a fast exit, so no pullover the front as the power gets yanked on immediately.


Keeping speed up is essential to a good gybe. It puts far less force on you when you flip the sail if your going fast than if your slow and flip the sail and gets a whole mass of power.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
28 Mar 2011 9:59PM
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Roger303 said...

I was taught (years ago) to gybe the rig first, (power it up fast just after the flip) and sail away (planing fast) with your feet unchanged from the previous tack. Once planing out of the gybe then move the feet into the new position. So gybe the rig first then feet second. Once you get good at this then the two separate moves become more like one move as they follow quickly at pace.
Of course you must enter the gybe fast travelling downwind. The speed of the board allows the aparent wind to lighten the rig allowing a fast flip, and by the time the true wind starts to build pressure back in the sail, you have already flipped the rig and are sailing out with your feet still back to front. Sheet in hard to keep the rig powered and the board planing before starting to move the feet.
Now days the 'lay down' is gybe is prevalent, (why? Because of the use of big fully cambered race sails?) but it seems to me that the rig gets flipped far to late and planing out is much harder or not a priority.
Anyway, the above is probably a bad gybe technique but it works for me on short boards. (I havn't managed a planing gybe on Formula yet).


I trid doing some strapto strap jibes recently, ie. changing feet after the jibe. However I found I was having trouble getting my foot out of the strap being at a more severe angle after the turn.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7965 posts
29 Mar 2011 9:26AM
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Waiting4wind said...

Roger303 said...

I was taught (years ago) to gybe the rig first, (power it up fast just after the flip) and sail away (planing fast) with your feet unchanged from the previous tack. Once planing out of the gybe then move the feet into the new position. So gybe the rig first then feet second. Once you get good at this then the two separate moves become more like one move as they follow quickly at pace.
Of course you must enter the gybe fast travelling downwind. The speed of the board allows the aparent wind to lighten the rig allowing a fast flip, and by the time the true wind starts to build pressure back in the sail, you have already flipped the rig and are sailing out with your feet still back to front. Sheet in hard to keep the rig powered and the board planing before starting to move the feet.
Now days the 'lay down' is gybe is prevalent, (why? Because of the use of big fully cambered race sails?) but it seems to me that the rig gets flipped far to late and planing out is much harder or not a priority.
Anyway, the above is probably a bad gybe technique but it works for me on short boards. (I havn't managed a planing gybe on Formula yet).


I trid doing some strapto strap jibes recently, ie. changing feet after the jibe. However I found I was having trouble getting my foot out of the strap being at a more severe angle after the turn.


I dont really do a strap to strap but I end up with both feet in the front straps after the gybe which generally works but if there is a lot of power to control on the exit I suppose a step gybe would put you in a more powerful stance.

Roger303
NSW, 161 posts
3 Apr 2011 8:24AM
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Waiting4wind said...

Roger303 said...

I was taught (years ago) to gybe the rig first, (power it up fast just after the flip) and sail away (planing fast) with your feet unchanged from the previous tack. Once planing out of the gybe then move the feet into the new position. So gybe the rig first then feet second. Once you get good at this then the two separate moves become more like one move as they follow quickly at pace.
Of course you must enter the gybe fast travelling downwind. The speed of the board allows the aparent wind to lighten the rig allowing a fast flip, and by the time the true wind starts to build pressure back in the sail, you have already flipped the rig and are sailing out with your feet still back to front. Sheet in hard to keep the rig powered and the board planing before starting to move the feet.
Now days the 'lay down' is gybe is prevalent, (why? Because of the use of big fully cambered race sails?) but it seems to me that the rig gets flipped far to late and planing out is much harder or not a priority.
Anyway, the above is probably a bad gybe technique but it works for me on short boards. (I havn't managed a planing gybe on Formula yet).


I trid doing some strapto strap jibes recently, ie. changing feet after the jibe. However I found I was having trouble getting my foot out of the strap being at a more severe angle after the turn.

I thought about this thread when sailing yesterday. I was wrong when I said 'sail away with your feet unchanged' .I should have mentioned that the back foot should come out of the back strap as you go into the gybe and is placed forward on the board on what is initially the downwind side of the board. Once through the gybe with the sail flipped and sheeted in, fix your feet by releasing your 'old' front foot from the now downwind front strap and settle your 'new' front foot into the upwind front strap, all whilst planing out on a broad reach. Once you link these together, you start to release your 'old' front foot earlier as you get used to planing out whilst sheeting in hard.

sboardcrazy
NSW, 7965 posts
3 Apr 2011 8:46AM
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After my pathetic attempts at gybing yesterday I feel like giving the sport away & crawling under a rock....I think I'm going to have to learn how to step gybe the small board as well as if I'm not really powered up I need my feet in the right spot as I exit.
Grr more falls..at least with all the practise my waterstarts are pretty good [}:)]
Where was everyone..c25 kt SSe at Valentine , nice day , Saturday & only me & 1 other out..?



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"Fix my gybes" started by ikw777