Ok I get upwind but often feel awkward .[}:)] I seem to be better at non planing stance & flat out but when just planing or ok I don't feel I am pulling the sail on with my body properly or something is wrong..How are you supposed to pull the sail on? Where are you pulling from , where are you hips aligned etc..
You have to load the fin up and lean way forward and nearly look around the mast.
Keep mast foot pressure by using your weight to keep the nose down and try to align all the bits like fin pressure, hanging off your harness and rig raked back to crank it upwind. A seat harness lets you "sit" on your rig and gives you the leverage.
If you can watch the formula guys, they really know how to sail upwind.
You have some top sailors up your way, ask them next time they are out on the lake.
Hope this helps.
Everything KA43 said.
A key thing is to get the board planing fast before cranking it upwind. The faster the board is moving, the more lift you can get from the fin.
Upwind, you have more length of the hull in the water, and if its a board with a fairly straight rail with a sharp lower edge in around the footstrap area, I find that I can tilt the board to leeward to dig the rail in slightly to get a bit more drive upwind. If the board doesn't have that kind of rail, I just keep it flat. You do not want to be digging in the windward rail.
Dont try to pinch too much upwind but try to keep the speed, to keep the lift in the fin.
In strong winds, you should have no problem going upwind, in fact it can be difficult not to go upwind, so on days when you are really powered they are ideal for getting used to the stance etc.
A full sail doesn't help - you need it to be fairly flat, so you dont want too much outhaul.
Ditto for what the others said.
Often when I'm sailing well upwind, I notice that I'm actually pushing the boom away from me. What I'm really doing here is allowing my upper body to lean more towards the rig to keep it away from me (more upright) and not inclined too much to windward which can kill speed in moderate winds. I gather this may be much easier to do with a seat harness, though can't compare cos i haven't used a waist harness for at least 20 years! Another thing that I find helps me to drive upwind is to try and straighten my feet by pushing the toes down which keeps the windward rail raised slightly.
i was sailing a 80 litre speed board today for first time. wind was 18/25 knots and for the first time ever i was struggling to get upwind.
the tail is extra narrow,had a a 28cm carbon fin with very narrow chord.
have just swapped fins to a much wider chord 28cm so expecting loss of topspeed to get me back to where i launched from.
anyway i agree with comments about going upwind although i find less downhaul will increase my upwind ability considerably.
if the wind is strong too little outhaul will make it hard to get upwind,however in light/medium wind i find less outhaul will aid my upwind ability as will be more powered up.
lifting the windward rail by applying backfoot toe pressure to leeward rail is the best technique to get upwind. if you can do this while pushing your weight in the harness forward to nose of board you have the best chance of getting upwind.
nothing more frustrating than constantly struggling to get upwind.
OK. So I try & push the rig away & point my toes & throw myself around the front of the mast...
cripes .. who need twister.. ( only you oldies will get that one).
Sorry been away for a while so I haven't been able to reply to posts properly.
Where are you pulling from , where are you hips aligned etc..
??
So the general lightwind settings for a sail are more reaching settings and if you are going to do a lot of upwind you should flatten the sail a little with a bit more downhaul & outhaul?
Re rigging sails for going upwind comfortably, true that you need to be powered up but this doesn't mean that you have to rig the sail full, at its most powerful setting, particularly if you're a lightweight. Being 'powered up' is mostly about planing comfortably in a straight line and then having the speed and technique to be able to sail upwind.
I do pretty much the same as what terminal said, only setting the sail full (i.e. touching the boom) at the bottom of the sails wind range. I weigh 75kg but I rig all of my KA Koyotes quite flat compared to what the guys at KA recommend cos they feel and perform better for me. Settings for downhaul and outhaul appear to be a personal thing, changes a lot from each person and important to find out whats best for yourself by experimenting a lot. Personally, with my KA's I use near maximum downhaul all the time and then adjust the outhaul to suit wind strength.
For at least the past year, I had problems getting upwind and staying there on my gear nearly all of the time and was looking at buying a bigger fin to make it easier to point higher. However, I persisted with the same gear (apart from getting rid of my old 6.0 and buying a new 5.9 Koyote) and just changed my technique a little, now in the same conditions I'm finding I can go upwind almost as easy as I go downwind!
how long ya harnes lines... i dont think flatening your sail by outhoul and downhaul is good for smaller sails to get upwind u need the extra power to point.
load the fin as much as posible and lean slightly forward... sailing on short boards is hard to get up wind anny way ...
I use more outhaul (tighter) for going up wind, but only about 1cm. The apparent wind is strongest when you are going upwind, so a reduction in drag helps, at the lower apparent wind speed of a broad run the sail drag is less important.
I use enough downhaul to make sure that I can handle the gusts without sheeting out.
Oversheeting is the most common reason for not being able to get upwind, so don't "pull the sail on" as you'll probably be oversheeting.
As you climb higher into the wind (with rising speed) you will be easing the rig away from you in order to maintain the correct rig to wind angle.
If you keep 'pulling the sail on' you will be oversheeted for the new upwind angle.
If anything, you push the boom down rather than pull on it. This keeps the gap closed.
Keep your heels together and feet splayed out, this automatically gets you into the correct forward leaning position. Do this and you will find it natural to look almost around the front of the mast.
And when its real light, grab the uphaul rope with your front hand. This lets the rig stand more upright.
Get this right and you'll climb a good 10 degrees higher into the wind.
Put some knots into the uphaul rope every 10cm or so. Good reference point and better grip.
as i power up harness, i push weight to nose of board,as you do this it is natural for sail to sheet- in or oversheet a little.
hard to get weight forward to nose and at the same time sheet out i would have thought.
next time sailing upwind i will sheet out deliberately and see if i can sail higher.
less downhaul will slow your topspeed especially in the stronger gusts but will definately help you sail higher into the wind. you have something to pull against in the lulls for one thing.
the only exception to this would be if you are on an oversized sail relative to the wind strength, then more downhaul may help you to handle the sail better.
for 6.0m in say 18/20 knots less downhaul will get you far higher into the wind,but will be slower on a reach.
sailing upwind, the lightweights have a much better chance of competing than across or downwind against the fat ........!
I have tried to explain what I do in the below drawing when I point high, well what I imagine it looks like but might be exaggerated. You can feel the sail and board point higher when you *sheet out*. You can feel the sail slicing up into the wind from its leading edge too more than on a reach (middle pic). I reckon the feel in your hands is so much more defined with modern sails than the days of sails with the draft further back which is still so clear to me. I use this technique successfully on both the Kona (without a centreboard) and the Fanatic X-Cross. Dunno if it works with
boards with a centreboard, don't use it anymore on the Kona.
The sails angle of attack is much clearer in light to medium air. Hips are twisted more sideways when you point up. Your back arm is much straighter than the front arm. In heavy air and full planing I tend to use more back foot pressure and fin only as you are steering the board with your feet, you have speed helping you point.
I'm no expert but this is how I see it, excuse the terminolgy as I'm not a boat sailor, just stuff I picked up over the years.
Feel free to comment or for me to make changes PLEASE!!! It's for the benefit of those who need it, I'd hate to have this illustration sitting in cyberland if incorrect. This may or not work for all, depends on what feels comfortable for you.
The above diagram negates apparent wind, so is incomplete. There is ONE optimum angle of attack for the sail and that angle is only relative to the apparent wind. The apparent wind is determined by the ratio of board speed, board direction and wind speed
Any variation on the angle of attack will not be getting you very fast upwind, which is the main reason ill smoke 'noobs' upwind on smaller gear. Also having your harness lines forward will mean your not fully sheeting in and achieving the correct angle of attack, this fact cannot be stressed enough.
(edit* something terrible has happened to this JPG)
"Also having your harness lines forward will mean your not fully sheeting in and achieving the correct angle of attack, this fact cannot be stressed enough. "
If oversheeting is a problem when upwinding, then having lines at the Cribb position (one third back, no back hand pressure) would surely make it more likely.
Maybe one gets good speed in gusts when the centre of pressure moves back, if that is the goal...
Gradually going through the responses and trying to soak them in. Thanks everyone.!
.A Peter Hart article about racing, but photos 1 and 4 show the upwind stance.http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7522
Interesting..the 3rd photo in the series has him hanging very low to the water which is what I've been doing more lately so maybe it isn't wrong!
Only trouble with the forum is information overload! Ill have to just try one thing at a time.
I'm a bit confused about how far to sheet in..maybe it depends on wind strength because I'm sure I point upwind better with the sail not sheeted in as much in subplaning/marginal conditions.? .it slows down when I sheet it on more..Maybe as I gain speed as i start to plane and the apparent wind heads me I need to sheet on more which is why I'm not going as well as I'd like because I find that hard to do.Maybe my harness lines need to move back ..Ill have to experiment next time I'm out..I spend most of my time going upwind anyway..
I have found in lighter winds changing my fin from the stock 30cm to a 32 has helped enormously for getting upwind.
It may help understand what you are trying to achieve when sheeting the sail correctly from a way of seeing when a sail is sheeted correctly.
When I was sailing a dinghy, I could watch a short length of wool on the other side of the front sail. It was a short distance back from the leading edge. If I sheeted in too much, the turbulent wind on the front side of the sail would make the wool flap around. When I sheeted out just the right amount, laminar flow was established and the wool was horizontal and straight.
You could sheet out slightly too much and still have the laminar flow, so it was a case of checking every so often by pulling the sail in again until turblulence appeared and letting it back out enough to make it laminar again.
No-one seems to use that in windsurfing, as you need to keep your eyes on other things. The bigger diameter of the mast as opposed to the forestay wire on the dinghy means the windsurf sail is slightly less sensitive to the sheeting angle anyway.
