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Hi everyone... I really need some advice. I am a BIG TIME beginner to windsurfing. I have used gear I am trying to learn on. I think it is workable gear.
I'm 240 lbs 6'1" in Texas with 10-15 knot winds typical
Sail 12.5m cam-ed sail
Board - Fanatic fun bat Lite ( older long board )
Now, I have had a lesson long ago, but my only success recently is that I rented a board (wide board) with a 6m sail in the Florida keys... I was able to go out and back several times and stay upwind in pretty light wind ( it was exhausting though)... That being said, it was VERY difficult for me to get the board to reach and impossible for me to get a run... it really wanted to point and the only way I could get back DOWNWIND to where I started was to pull up the center-board (dagger-board) and sort of crab downwind... the board tip simply would not aim where I wanted it to.
So I finally had enough wind to get out on MY rig today. I am able to stand up and up haul on this board with this big ass sail, but it isn't exactly easy. However It seems like no matter what I do, the board points upwind and even tries to back wind the sail! I am trying to bring the rig as close to vertical as I can ( not leaning away from me) and lean it forward as well, but the damned thing still wants to go straight upwind!
I have a moveable track and I have tried putting the base all the way forward and all the way back... Oddly enough, I had the most success with it far back so that I could stand further forward on the board without sinking the bow.
I have tried with the centerboard up and down with no noticeable difference.
I have tried grabbing the boom further and further back from the mast ( to drive rig forward) but if I go too far the wind just twists the rig out of my hands.
This is so frustrating... I thought It was supposed to be hard to stay upwind, but for crying out loud I cant lay off!!!
I would appreciate any suggestions... Also, I have about 6 inches I could move my rear fin fore or aft.... What effect would this have? it is all the way towards the stern now. should I move it up?
Big beginners boards like that are steered by moving the rig forwards or backwards and by where you stand.
Step a bit more forward and lean the rig towards the nose. That should turn the nose downwind.
You need to put your forward foot in front or just at the foot of the mast, grip the boom wide and while you tip the mast forward, push with the front foot and pull hard with the back hand. Only sheeting in will allow to bear off the wind, tipping the mast forward on it's own is not enough. Get some dvd like 'beginner to winner'.
That is a HUGE sail by anyone's standards, let alone for a beginner. I would say the sheer weight of it is making it hard for you to hold it upright enough to reach, and to tip it forward to bear away down wind.
The 6 m sail is a much better idea for the stage you are at.
You bear away by leaning the sail forward (toward the nose of the board), while sheeting in, and gradually sheet out as your downwind angle increases.
If you have the sail over the back of the board, or if you are standing toward the back of the board you will head upwind.
As Obelix says, after uphauling keep your front foot near the mast until you are really planing, then you can move back. If you stand back where the footstraps are you will round up into the wind. The back of the board is for planing, when sail steering doesn't apply so much.
A beginner with a 12.5m cam sail 
That's where you should start, try a sail half the size or less until you get the hang of it.
The motion is more, I find, tilting the rig forward and sheeting out just a little. This makes the sail act like a big paddle in the wind.
All the force is in the sail in front of the midpoint, the mast base. It's gonna push the nose around.
Imagine it with the guy on the green sail over there >
To steer a non planing sailboard you move the centre of effort of the sail in relation to the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board. The centre of effort of the sail is roughly 1/3 along the boom from the mast. The centre of lateral resistance of the centre board is the middle of the centre board.
So if you want to turn down wind, you move the centre of effort of the sail towards the bow of the sailboard in front of the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board. In simple terms, tilt the mast diagonally towards the bow of the board and accross the board to windward. This will push the nose of the board down wind. It helps if you move your feet forward as well.
Once you are heading in the direction you want, you adjust the tilt of the mast so the centre of effort of the sail is over the centre of lateral resistance of the centre board.
I agree with the others above. Doing this with a 12m2 sail is a big ask. Try a smaller sail until you get the hang of it.
Yep it's all about the relationship between boards lateral resistance and centre of rig's effort.
as well as moving the rig's effort forward you can also move the boards centre of resistance aft.
removing or pulling up the centre board for starters! You can also move your weight backwards, that sinks the rear of the board and lifts the forward rails out of the water. You may find that moving the mast track backwards, will help you get the weight aft. You don't want to overdo it or you push too much water, you'll need to experiment for best results. But I'd try mast track all the way back and no dagger board, then sail with the rig sheeted out and as far forward as you can reach, with your weight as far back as possible, sounds awkward, but if that doesn't get you downwind nothing will!
Thank you everyone for your time.
On the sail being too heavy... its definitely heavy, but I'm a strong guy. I just don't get the kind of wind I need where I live to be able to use the 6.0... It gives me no pull. I'd need 30 knots with it.
On tilting the rig forward. I am sorry, I must not have emphasized enough that I am leaning the rig as far forward as I can. If I hold onto the boom any further aft the wind sort of "twist" the rig out of my hands taking the mast downwind...( Imagine if you were trying to hold onto the clue). I am both holding aft on the boom and leaning the rig forward as well as standing with on foot WELL in front of the mast. If I stand any further forward I bury the nose.
I just got back in off the water and tried some of the suggestions you guys gave me. I had a bit more success today, but even when I was able to keep the board from shooting upwind, I just plowed through the water sideways, even with the dagger-board down. At one point, despite having the front foot in front of the mast base, leaning the rig all the way forward as much as I could ( gripping boom wide at nearly the halfway point) and putting pressure on my front foot, I rounded up into the wind and got backwinded and in the scramble basically did a tack... great except Im doing everything I can to go DOWNWIND :confused
think i have decided that the board I have is simply too small. I think it is a 125L board. I think I need to try to find a used "boat" around 190L to learn on.
I'm sure the board and rig are capable of pointing down wind. If you get a friend to shoot and post a 10 sec clip, it'll be easy to work out where it's going wrong.
If the board is going sideways once you are in the sailing position this means you need to put more weight on the front foot to push the board downwind and tilt the sail forward. The will move the centre of effort towards the nose and force it downwind.
If as you say you are doing all this and still going sideways while going downwind then I think its an issue with your equipment. The best learning combo is a big board with a small sail. The worst is the opposite, small board with a big sail. A 12.5m sail is huge. A 125L board for learning is small, especially for someone of your weight. If you are on a big board with a small sail, ie 5m or less, you will get going in the lightest of winds. You will get you windsurfing quickly without falling in very much.
Thanks guys, I will try to get out day after tomorrow and hopefully get a video so y'all can make fun.. I mean help me ;-).
I will also try to get the small sail out and see if I have any better luck with it. Like I said, I just don't get much wind here this time of year.
I think it is a too big a sail, too small a board (150L min for you learning) combined with a sheeting-in technique issue.
The idea with sheeting in is the mast remains motionless and is like an axle that the rig rotates around. Once you uphaul and get the front hand on the boom, you extend the front arm so the mast is away from you and also angling forward a bit. Then you leave it there and sheet in with the back hand. The board then starts to move.
What I suspect you are doing is pulling on the boom with both hands so the board is across the wind, the sail is across the wind and is acting like a spinnaker would going dead downwind. So of course the board just dogs along sideways.
Forget about not much wind - that is what you want - 10kn and 5m sail on a 180L board would be perfect for you.
Hi Austintatious
I think if the board was 122 litres it would have trouble floating with your weight and a 12sqm, I suspect it has higher volume, longboards are probably around the 200litre mark.
A 12sqm is going to have a long boom, so your best position for the mast track will be a bit forward of the middle. While you are learning, you'll start off with your feet around the mast, but once you start moving you should be stepping back so that both feet are behind the mast. This will lift the front of the board a little and allow it to move downwind. As you mentioned you are almost sinking the nose, that will dig that end of the board into the water, and moving your mast track back helped. The reason it helped is because you are standing further back on board and lifting the nose to allow it to move.
With a 12 sqm and about 10-12 knots of wind you should have enough that the wind in the sail will hold you up if you lean back a bit. This will allow your feet and the mast to push the nose downwind.
If you are nearly holding the clew, you have sheeted in too much, which is only going send you sideways, see the picture below for approximately how far the sail should be sheeted in. You will want the wind to spill off the back of the sail in non planing conditions to push the air back and you forward.
If you find that you are rounding up into the wind, sheet out until it stops going up wind. It will slow you down but the physics dictate that you pushing the sail away from you will push the tail upwind and the nose down wind.
There are a lot of small movements that you need to get right all at the same time, and only time on the water will allow your brain time to figure out how to do all of them without thinking. Don't give up.
^^^ Here I was waiting for barn to drop by with one of his MS Paint illustrated explanations!
Thank you Sav911.
I am not actually holding the clue... I only said that to get my point across about how if I grab any further aft on the boom the wind twist the rig out of my hands ( I just cant hold it)
I try to find the balance point of the boom and hold on both sides of it with my hands... Should I be putting my forward hand AT the center of pressure?
I will try all this new advice and try to get a picture. I will also get a measurement on the boards length so maybe I can find the displacement.
Like I said it is apparent you are not sheeting in correctly. You want your front hand no more than a foot from the mast.
You should be able to sail with your hand ON the mast and sheeting in a bit with back hand, just enough to feel the wind.
Not hands halfway back along the boom sheeting in more and more and mast falling to leeward.
Look for some youtube videos that show how to uphaul, cross front hand over and grab boom and sheet in. ie the first 2sec of starting
The mast board combo is all wrong amongst other things. If it's 125L that board is probably rated for only about a 7M sail max, a 12.5M sail is the largest windsurfing sail made and the only boards rated for a sail that size I know of are formula boards, even my giant windsup is only rated to 10M.
Also 10-15 knots while being ideal for the beginning stages of learning will be a serious hindrance for further progress. To get planing you will need about an 8M sail and a special lightwind board or forget about planing and get a newer longboard, a 125L board might be able to plane in 10-15 if you weighed 120 lbs.
I know you are thinking this giant sail should be great for these light winds but I'm sure it's very heavy with multiple battens and cams and it's actually designed for racing in overpowered conditions. Pros use those sails in up to 20 knots. It's heavy duty construction is designed to keep the sail stable while overpowered.
Ahh Ok if it is a 160L then It has 352 lbs of flotation. I'm not exactly certain what I weigh, but I bet its around 230 (and dropping:) the rig is probably another 30-40 lbs
I will definitely get some pictures of the entire rig the next time I go out and if I need to measure the geometry and If I can find someone to film me Ill get video too.
