Forums > Windsurfing General

Harness line for a seat harness.

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Created by kpb > 9 months ago, 16 Jul 2012
kpb
QLD, 239 posts
16 Jul 2012 3:13PM
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i have read that if you measure from the boom round your elbow and back to the boom again you will be able to find out how long your harness lines should be... I was wondering if thats the best way and does that apply to a seat harness?

powersloshin
NSW, 1687 posts
16 Jul 2012 4:36PM
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With a seat harness the hook is lower than on a waist harness, so you could go a bit longer or position your boom a bit lower. Btw, you can read more about harness lines length on Guy Cribb's website, he explains more than this rough rule of thumb (rule of elbow :-) ?

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
16 Jul 2012 3:27PM
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powersloshin said...

With a seat harness the hook is lower than on a waist harness, so you could go a bit longer or position your boom a bit lower. Btw, you can read more about harness lines length on Guy Cribb's website, he explains more than this rough rule of thumb (rule of elbow :-) ?



On his course this year, first thing Guy strongly recommended was 28-30" lines for all. No matter what size or stature

kpb
QLD, 239 posts
16 Jul 2012 5:27PM
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powersloshin said...

With a seat harness the hook is lower than on a waist harness, so you could go a bit longer or position your boom a bit lower. Btw, you can read more about harness lines length on Guy Cribb's website, he explains more than this rough rule of thumb (rule of elbow :-) ?



A heap of good info there thanx for the tip

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8023 posts
16 Jul 2012 6:35PM
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kpb said...

i have read that if you measure from the boom round your elbow and back to the boom again you will be able to find out how long your harness lines should be... I was wondering if thats the best way and does that apply to a seat harness?


Hadn't thought of that..I use that rule but i use a seat harness..I'll make them a bit longer..On a slightly different tack - how do you know when they are too long?

terminal
1421 posts
16 Jul 2012 4:57PM
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mineral1 said...

powersloshin said...

With a seat harness the hook is lower than on a waist harness, so you could go a bit longer or position your boom a bit lower. Btw, you can read more about harness lines length on Guy Cribb's website, he explains more than this rough rule of thumb (rule of elbow :-) ?



On his course this year, first thing Guy strongly recommended was 28-30" lines for all. No matter what size or stature


I rate Guy as the best of the Gurus but that is obviously not going to be correct.

IMO you should be using the longest lines you can, with the boom about shoulder to chin height for most sailors. I wouldn't put a number on it as each sailor is a different build.

I cant find video of Alex Mussolini hooked in and powered to show good stance for someone wearing a seat harness, but if some video appears from PWA Tenerife when he is hooked in, it would be worth looking at.

terminal
1421 posts
16 Jul 2012 5:07PM
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sboardcrazy said...

kpb said...

i have read that if you measure from the boom round your elbow and back to the boom again you will be able to find out how long your harness lines should be... I was wondering if thats the best way and does that apply to a seat harness?


Hadn't thought of that..I use that rule but i use a seat harness..I'll make them a bit longer..On a slightly different tack - how do you know when they are too long?


There is a length where you can get your hand wrapped round the boom well enough to not tire your arms out. Make the harness lines 1/2" longer and your arms will tire very quickly.
You should also avoid any harness lines which have any stretch in them. I once used an adjustable harness line on a hire board that was slightly elastic and it killed my arms quickly.

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
16 Jul 2012 5:22PM
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The right length allows you to sail with your arms completely straight and yet with weight in the harness. The length will vary with wind strength. Longer with light wind, shorter with strong wind. When your behind is hitting the waves they're too long. When your arms are taking too much strain the lines are too long. If your arms are bent they're too short. That's why I like adjustable lines. Easier to change the line length than move the boom.

slalomfreak
NSW, 304 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:40PM
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Matt Prichard told me most wsurfers use way too short harness line.
Recommended 28-30" lines for most.

FormulaNova
WA, 14734 posts
16 Jul 2012 6:20PM
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mineral1 said...

powersloshin said...

With a seat harness the hook is lower than on a waist harness, so you could go a bit longer or position your boom a bit lower. Btw, you can read more about harness lines length on Guy Cribb's website, he explains more than this rough rule of thumb (rule of elbow :-) ?



On his course this year, first thing Guy strongly recommended was 28-30" lines for all. No matter what size or stature


Peter Hart ran an article called 'The Gorilla Factor' (I think) where he used to have the same idea, until he ran a clinic, had everyone use long lines, run their booms up higher, and found they sailed worse.

Why would someone use the same length lines as another if their arms are longer and they are the same height?

People are different. Maybe most people use lines that are too short, but assuming they should all use the same length is going too far the other way.


keef
NSW, 2016 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:07PM
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i find if the lines are too long i'm constantly unhooking in chop and can be frustrating

decrepit
WA, 12165 posts
16 Jul 2012 7:10PM
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I tried 28" lines, boom around my nose, seat harness, and most of the weight was on my arms. 26 is as long as I can go and put all the weight on the harness. There just has to be an optimum length dependent on peoples anatomy.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:27PM
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Harness line length is an intersting topic. I used 22" for years and at times I even thought they were too long. When I started getting into speed I was told to go longer and progressively I worked to using 28" which feel comfortable now.

A couple of years ago I was swapped gear with another sailor who was using 22"'s and I almost felt glued to the sail, no room to move. I couldnt even fathom how I managed to use the 22" lines.

I'm pretty tall, however I've seen many sailors who are shorter and using longer lines, so I guess your stance compensates. I recommend anyone who is using short lines try some adjustables and to see how far you can go with the length.

powersloshin
NSW, 1687 posts
16 Jul 2012 10:41PM
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keef said...

i find if the lines are too long i'm constantly unhooking in chop and can be frustrating


I had the same problem, and I think it is more due to stance than harness lines. Try keeping your back more straight and push your ass out, this will keep tension in the lines.

powersloshin
NSW, 1687 posts
16 Jul 2012 10:54PM
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FormulaNova said...

Why would someone use the same length lines as another if their arms are longer and they are the same height?

People are different. Maybe most people use lines that are too short, but assuming they should all use the same length is going too far the other way.



in his clinic last january Guy explained that the difference in height at the belly button is smaller than the difference in total height. In addition when reaching to the boom you don't go in a vertical line, but a diagonal, so the difference in height of the hook translates in a minor difference in the distance to the boom. Sorry for being bad at explanations..

dinsdale
WA, 1227 posts
16 Jul 2012 9:24PM
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sboardcrazy said...
On a slightly different tack - how do you know when they are too long?

That's when you can't reach the boom anymore ,

kpb
QLD, 239 posts
17 Jul 2012 2:53PM
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Ok so I went with the 30" thanks for the feedback

powersloshin
NSW, 1687 posts
17 Jul 2012 4:20PM
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good choice
remember to check Guy's articles on stance to make the best of your long lines

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8023 posts
17 Jul 2012 5:21PM
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I've always found larger sails ( 6.6 + now 7.2m ) hard to pull on and very uncomfortable and tiring.
Light bulb moment 1
When I was trying the 7.2m it was set up with the harness lines further back than I usually use ( c 5" further back! ). I found it worked well. The main reason mine were so far forward is that with the big sails I am often sailing in subplaning conditions out of the straps and standing up near the mast. I found I could still do that with the lines further back.
Light bulb moment 2 -

I had the boom at the bottom of the cutout ( I'm 5' 6") so it was about chest to chin height like I usually have it. Someone who knows the sails and better sailor than me pointed out that the centre of effort in the sail was higher than where I had the boom and that would make it harder to pull on etc. We raised the boom to about eye height ( middle of the cutout) and lengthened the lines and it felt heaps better.

The only problem now is that works for the sail at the bottom of its range but to get max downhaul I need to put the ext up a hole which made everything feel yuck again. I cant remember where that made the boom have to be..? So the boom is even higher..???

Bender
WA, 2224 posts
17 Jul 2012 3:41PM
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Windxtasy said...

The right length allows you to sail with your arms completely straight and yet with weight in the harness. The length will vary with wind strength. Longer with light wind, shorter with strong wind. When your behind is hitting the waves they're too long. When your arms are taking too much strain the lines are too long. If your arms are bent they're too short. That's why I like adjustable lines. Easier to change the line length than move the boom.


gee i find longer lines in stronger winds allows more control as you can get further from he rig and shorter in lighter winds allows to get more fin pressure and plane earlier as there is less weight on your feet.

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
17 Jul 2012 5:50PM
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Bender said...

Windxtasy said...

The right length allows you to sail with your arms completely straight and yet with weight in the harness. The length will vary with wind strength. Longer with light wind, shorter with strong wind. When your behind is hitting the waves they're too long. When your arms are taking too much strain the lines are too long. If your arms are bent they're too short. That's why I like adjustable lines. Easier to change the line length than move the boom.


gee i find longer lines in stronger winds allows more control as you can get further from he rig and shorter in lighter winds allows to get more fin pressure and plane earlier as there is less weight on your feet.


I guess everyone has their own style, so do what works for you - but Bender is a much better sailor than I am so his advice is probably best. I find when it's windy it's also choppy and if I don't shorten my lines my behind keeps hitting the chop.

K Dog
VIC, 1847 posts
17 Jul 2012 8:02PM
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Windxtasy said...

Bender said...

Windxtasy said...

The right length allows you to sail with your arms completely straight and yet with weight in the harness. The length will vary with wind strength. Longer with light wind, shorter with strong wind. When your behind is hitting the waves they're too long. When your arms are taking too much strain the lines are too long. If your arms are bent they're too short. That's why I like adjustable lines. Easier to change the line length than move the boom.


gee i find longer lines in stronger winds allows more control as you can get further from he rig and shorter in lighter winds allows to get more fin pressure and plane earlier as there is less weight on your feet.


I guess everyone has their own style, so do what works for you - but Bender is a much better sailor than I am so his advice is probably best. I find when it's windy it's also choppy and if I don't shorten my lines my behind keeps hitting the chop.


+1 use same method.

terminal
1421 posts
17 Jul 2012 6:04PM
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Here's a video showing Alex Mussolini's stance with a seat harness. Its not easy to find a video where he is hooked in and powered.

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
17 Jul 2012 6:09PM
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K Dog said...

Windxtasy said...

Bender said...

Windxtasy said...

The right length allows you to sail with your arms completely straight and yet with weight in the harness. The length will vary with wind strength. Longer with light wind, shorter with strong wind. When your behind is hitting the waves they're too long. When your arms are taking too much strain the lines are too long. If your arms are bent they're too short. That's why I like adjustable lines. Easier to change the line length than move the boom.


gee i find longer lines in stronger winds allows more control as you can get further from he rig and shorter in lighter winds allows to get more fin pressure and plane earlier as there is less weight on your feet.


I guess everyone has their own style, so do what works for you - but Bender is a much better sailor than I am so his advice is probably best. I find when it's windy it's also choppy and if I don't shorten my lines my behind keeps hitting the chop.


+1 use same method.


Which method ? Mine or Bender's?

K Dog
VIC, 1847 posts
17 Jul 2012 9:59PM
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Yours. For same reasons.

WaynoB
NSW, 393 posts
18 Jul 2012 11:10AM
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For slalom I use adjustable lines - they are usually set at 28" using a seat harness. Can lengthen them when you bear off downwind if you like and shorten them up when you come back upwind. Boom at chin to nose height when upright.

For waves I use 24" non-adjustable lines and a waist harness. Never use anything but wave sails in the waves for obvious reasons...boom at neck to chin height when upright.

Am 5'10" tall. Whatever feels comfortable and right for you is the way to go. May take some time for this to happen though.

kpb
QLD, 239 posts
21 Jul 2012 4:24PM
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The harness lines worked a treat now to stop catapulting...

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
21 Jul 2012 4:22PM
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kpb said...

The harness lines worked a treat now to stop catapulting...


Lean back to anticipate the pull from the sail when the power comes on, and never allow the sail to pull you around over the back of the board (not until you get into speed sailing anyway).

kpb
QLD, 239 posts
21 Jul 2012 10:03PM
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Windxtasy said...

kpb said...

The harness lines worked a treat now to stop catapulting...


Lean back to anticipate the pull from the sail when the power comes on, and never allow the sail to pull you around over the back of the board (not until you get into speed sailing anyway).


Will work on that for sure...Once I hooked in I did feel like the sail was pushing me round...Although I did get it right a few times and was surprised how light the mast felt and even felt like the board poped up and started skimming accross the water...

Windxtasy
WA, 4014 posts
21 Jul 2012 9:16PM
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kpb said...

Windxtasy said...

kpb said...

The harness lines worked a treat now to stop catapulting...


Lean back to anticipate the pull from the sail when the power comes on, and never allow the sail to pull you around over the back of the board (not until you get into speed sailing anyway).


Will work on that for sure...Once I hooked in I did feel like the sail was pushing me round...Although I did get it right a few times and was surprised how light the mast felt and even felt like the board poped up and started skimming accross the water...


Yesss!!!



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"Harness line for a seat harness." started by kpb