Forums > Windsurfing General

How to determine the volume of my board

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Created by LongTimeAgo > 9 months ago, 20 Nov 2012
Mark _australia
WA, 22345 posts
20 Nov 2012 9:38PM
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^^^ decrep - yes correct but I think it was red thumbed as trying to add weights on a board, no matter how calm will surely result on them falling off as you try to "sink it level"..... result is you get the sh!ts with it and go home

The only easy suggestion I have ever seen - and seems to be a new one - is Chris' wheelie bin. But don't tell him I said that.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
20 Nov 2012 11:28PM
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Chris6791 said...
barn said...
^Assume they need to measure formula boards too, and raceboards?

Is there a 3m vertical, metre wide beaker?


Will it fit in a wheelie bin? measure half at a time if it does? catching the displaced water will be hard so measure what it takes to refill it?


A wheelie bin would buldge with all that water and distortion in the container would throw out any data.

It's pretty clear that the companies can't measure volume right.

Matt is right, you need to add weights remotely, till it sinks and account for board weight.

Mark _australia
WA, 22345 posts
20 Nov 2012 11:51PM
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^^^^ after it has bulged cos it is full, THEN you have water at the top, and insert half the board vertically, causing spillage
Then remove board.

Any change in the bulge during that process would be negligable. Like a litre at most.

Adding weights and try and have it sink evenly (level) so weights don't fall off = hours of fragging around. Insert into water and measure spillage - about 1/10th the time with an acceptable tiny error.
He is trying to ascertain if the board is 80L or 90L - not 88.2L or 89.05L.





beatlloydy
NSW, 133 posts
21 Nov 2012 3:54PM
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Had to laugh at all the suggestions...some quite scientific and some downright silly...but in reality....what is the approach when buying a new board? (lets assume the person, not me, has been windsurfing for at least a year and has good balance on a beginner board etc but may not necessarily be able to deep water start..so uphauling may still be required).

Do you take the volume of the board, subtract the weight of rig and it should be equal or more to the weight of the individual?

I know I will probably get a lot of "it depends" but for arguments sake, lets say the person is interested in 2 boards...a flat water cruising board and a wave board...what differences would there be and what sort of volume are you looking at? Assume the person is 80KG which would be the average weight of a male.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
21 Nov 2012 2:05PM
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Mark _australia said...
^^^ decrep - yes correct but I think it was red thumbed as trying to add weights on a board, no matter how calm will surely result on them falling off as you try to "sink it level"..... result is you get the sh!ts with it and go home

The only easy suggestion I have ever seen - and seems to be a new one - is Chris' wheelie bin. But don't tell him I said that.


Aww gee shucks Mark

I use a wheelie bin full of water to rinse my gear daily rather than run the hose all the time. The bulge is minimal, the only issue is whether the board will fit and you don't try and move the bin when full. Do it somewhere where you can tip it out afterwards.

Squid Lips
WA, 708 posts
21 Nov 2012 2:11PM
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If you had an anchor point at the bottom of a pool you could use a winch and a spring gauge to see how much force is required to pull it under water. same effect as loading weights on top.

Beatlloydy, it depends on what kind of sailing you are doing, wind strength and sail sizes you want to use much more than what you weigh. Wave board you usually want the smallest you can get away with. If it's windy and you're powered up you can go way below your body weight in litres, if it's marginal you want something closer or a bit above to give you enough float to get out. For flat water you need to match the board to the sails. All manufacturers give a recommended sail size range for each board.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
21 Nov 2012 2:24PM
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I was more talking about the ways manufacturers measure boards, not so much about the board at the start of this thread. That board is easy, it's precisely 364 'onions tied to my belt'...

My only point was that production boards are all over the place, so it's pretty clear that they have no set way to measure them that eliminates error. I'd trust Fanatic with a volume, cause they're CNC, the rest should have +/- 5L..

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
21 Nov 2012 5:36PM
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Are we talking virtual volume or actual

Mark _australia
WA, 22345 posts
21 Nov 2012 4:14PM
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sausage said...
Are we talking virtual volume or actual


is easy if you know how. Let's say actual volume of a board is 100L.

Subtract for "spiral vee", "integrated rocker concept" and an "orthoganal rail system" (about 10L total) gives 90L.
Then add the feel of more volume created by the muliple fins (is it 5 this week?) and "balanced volume distribution (pat pend)" which is about 10L. So 90L + 10L = 100L.

So then we have a "virtual volume" of 100L.... oh, hang on.....

barn
WA, 2960 posts
21 Nov 2012 6:50PM
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Ahhh Virtual Volume, that Dark Science where by moving the thickness to the rails you increase surface area and therefore the buoyancy...

When will Scientists learn that some things just shouldn't be tampered with..

LongTimeAgo
NSW, 106 posts
21 Nov 2012 11:46PM
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beatlloydy said...
Do you take the volume of the board, subtract the weight of rig and it should be equal or more to the weight of the individual?

I know I will probably get a lot of "it depends" but for arguments sake, lets say the person is interested in 2 boards...a flat water cruising board and a wave board...what differences would there be and what sort of volume are you looking at? Assume the person is 80KG which would be the average weight of a male.


hope you can get something from my journey so far...

I'm currently asking the same questions but I have windsurfed before (back in mid eighties). I just started sailing again recently.

I have a Mistral Superlight 260ltr and 9' Pete Cabrinha fiberglass board (see pic @ start of thread). Me 75kgs. I can still sail both but IT IS HARD WORK. Recently I purchased used 6.5, 5.8 & 5.0 Ezzy sails with booms & masts, got a good deal on them.

Today on the lake wind was blowin NE at least 20knots. Had a loan of a 10 year old 93ltr 60cm wide board (thanks Phil ) & used my 5.8 Ezzy. It planed in no time and it's the fastest I've ever been on a board. Water start in chest deep water was a breeze.

Talking to the guys later they say 100ltr is the 'sweet spot' for me. Everybody seems to have a couple of boards for various wind strengths (just like a range of sails).

beatlloydy just wait till you make that first plane in a good wind, nothin' like it

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
22 Nov 2012 1:54AM
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mathew said...
24 posts and not a single easy solution... FFS! (ignoring the best answer of "just test them"...)

1. Take board, put in calm water
2. Put some weight onto board until is just sinks.

weight ~ volume

* assuming metric system... and you can take into account the the salt in the water if you really care.


That's the way.
Put the board in a swimming pool. Plenty of them about.
Get a green rubbish bin and put it on the board.
Fill the bin from the garden hose until the board just sinks.
Mark the height of the water on the bin.
Put the bin on the bathroom scales and fill it to the mark.
The weight in kg = the volume of all the submerged board in litres.

Richiefish
QLD, 5610 posts
22 Nov 2012 8:51AM
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Mine goes to eleven !...

Mark _australia
WA, 22345 posts
22 Nov 2012 9:48AM
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Richiefish said...
Mine goes to eleven !...


Interesting - maybe you failed to account for the weight of the green bin?

I tried to calculate the volume of my new waveboard and all I got was sik to the power of rad.

jdemol
NSW, 25 posts
22 Nov 2012 11:19PM
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I found an empirical method on the net a while ago which I've found to work well on about 5 boards I've tried. The method is as follows:

"Estimation of the volume of a board (empiric made - don't look for any logic):

1. Measure the board where thickest.
2. Measure the circumference of the board with intervals of 20 cm (starting 10 cm from the stern).
3. The measured circumferences of the board are put into the formula: Circumference/221*20*thickness/13, which
of course is calculated.
4. The sum of the results (from "3.") tells the volume of the board in liters. "

Here's an example that I did for a mistral equipe 1 (quoted volume of 235 L)

thickness (cm)
16

circumferences (cm) / formula
63.0 7.0
83.0 9.2
101.0 11.2
117.0 13.0
128.0 14.3
134.5 15.0
140.0 15.6
144.0 16.0
146.0 16.3
147.0 16.4
146.5 16.3
143.5 16.0
139.0 15.5
131.0 14.6
121.0 13.5
103.5 11.5
79.0 8.8
39.0 4.3

volume (sum of right hand column) 234.6 L

It's not as hard to do as it sounds, you just need a string and tape measure for the circumferences or one of those flexible things you use to measure you're waist.

Bondalucci
QLD, 1579 posts
22 Nov 2012 11:00PM
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I can't for the life of me determine the volume of my board.
It keeps bloody changing....

...seems the choppier the conditions, the louder the board!!

fjdoug
ACT, 548 posts
23 Nov 2012 12:31AM
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jdemol said...


Here's an example that I did for a mistral equipe 1 (quoted volume of 235 L)




thought you might be interested; Boards magazine, April 1990, measured the Equipe to be 221 litres.

jdemol
NSW, 25 posts
23 Nov 2012 10:24AM
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That sounds like it might have been an original Equipe, which was ~220 L. There were three versions, the equipe, equipe 1 and equipe 2.

Anyway, the above method is an empirical method, which to me means someone's come up with a method and formula that consistently reproduces the quoted volumes of production boards (which I have found it to do well), and which can then be used to find the approximate volume of an unknown board. But this does mean that the technique is limited to the accuracy of the numbers quoted for whatever production boards have been used to develop the technique.

LongTimeAgo
NSW, 106 posts
23 Nov 2012 10:37AM
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Bondalucci said...

I can't for the life of me determine the volume of my board.
It keeps bloody changing....

...seems the choppier the conditions, the louder the board!!


Carantoc
WA, 6631 posts
23 Nov 2012 3:14PM
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Another quick and easy method is :

Turn the board upside down
Look around near the stringer close to the fin
When you find some writing read it
One of those numbers may or may not be the volume

(Of course if you have already cut it into 1cm x 1cm x 1cm blocks you may have to partially re-assemble first)

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
25 Nov 2012 3:51AM
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The trouble with all this is that even of you end up accurately measuring your board, you are presuming that the volume of new boards is stated accurately, which I somehow doubt.

You're just better off working out your requirements and talking to a few people to get an idea of what nominal volume board you should get. Better still if you can test sail a couple of boards.

Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
25 Nov 2012 11:12AM
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It would be quite simple if you had access to a tank or cistern that you knew the exact volume of and the board would fit into.
Simply hold the board underwater with a stick or something and remove water until the tank with the board submerged is at the mark where you know it's exact given volume. Then remove the board and add water a liter at a time until it is full to the mark again.
Anything else is just guestimating.

Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
25 Nov 2012 11:21AM
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Actually you don't even need to know the volume of the tank of water, just mark the side of the tank when full with the board submerged then remove the board and add water a liter at a time until it's to the mark again.

Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
25 Nov 2012 11:27AM
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Simply put, you just need a tank big enough to hold the board.
You can tie barbell weights to the board to hold it down and let the water go still then when you remove the board just leave the weights in the water and refill.

LongTimeAgo
NSW, 106 posts
26 Nov 2012 11:25AM
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FWIW we guesstimated it to be 'in the nineties'.

Last weekend I purchased a second hand 100ltr JP Freestlye III, now I'm hangin for some wind.

Noticed similar board @ www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/New-South-Wales/Wavesailing-video-off-Long-Reef/. Now I have a skill level to aim for.


DunkO
NSW, 1143 posts
26 Nov 2012 4:08PM
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it's easy...
take out the plug fill the board with water.

then remove all the water and measure it.

make sure you get it all out for accuracy.

by this method i found my nude chopper had a greater volume than actually stated on the board...it held a lot of water.

dan berry
WA, 2562 posts
26 Nov 2012 8:27PM
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barn said...
I was more talking about the ways manufacturers measure boards, not so much about the board at the start of this thread. That board is easy, it's precisely 364 'onions tied to my belt'...

My only point was that production boards are all over the place, so it's pretty clear that they have no set way to measure them that eliminates error. I'd trust Fanatic with a volume, cause they're CNC, the rest should have +/- 5L..


All production boards are milled barn, you should know that. They would know the EXACT volume of each board..........then proceed to call it whatever the marketing division needs it to be called. Generally they would be pretty close anyway.

mahi
QLD, 119 posts
13 Dec 2012 11:30PM
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Some shapers include the sandwich material thickness in the volume calculation.
Normally around 10 Litres.
For example a board which has an 85 Litre EPS core (CNC calulated) will be rated as a 95 Litre board.
Not sure how much a double sandwich skin would contribute to actual float??
Why dont we include the footstraps and deckpads in the volume too..

jsnfok
WA, 899 posts
13 Dec 2012 10:05PM
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beatlloydy said...
the person is 80KG which would be the average weight of a male.


Ha, average weight of a skinny male,

Mark _australia
WA, 22345 posts
13 Dec 2012 10:15PM
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mahi said...
Some shapers include the sandwich material thickness in the volume calculation.
Normally around 10 Litres.
For example a board which has an 85 Litre EPS core (CNC calulated) will be rated as a 95 Litre board.
Not sure how much a double sandwich skin would contribute to actual float??
Why dont we include the footstraps and deckpads in the volume too..


Are you claiming divinycell does not float?

Seeing as though it is about 100kg / m3 that makes it 1/10th the density of water so I reckon it does float.

Thus....... any reason it should not be included in volume?

Obviously volume is the size of the board, regardless of the fact some is PVC foam and some is polystyrene foam.



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"How to determine the volume of my board" started by LongTimeAgo