Forums > Windsurfing General

Van Safety

Reply
Created by ikw777 > 9 months ago, 4 Oct 2011
ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
4 Oct 2011 2:54PM
Thumbs Up

Does anyone know if fitting a bull bar or Roo bar to the front of a van improve it's frontal impact resistance or would it just make things worse?

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
4 Oct 2011 4:15PM
Thumbs Up

It would depend on what your van is running into. If your van with a bullbar hit a cat or rabbit then it would probably help protect your van. If your van had a head on with a prime mover where both vehicles were doing 100 km/h then a bullbar wouldn't make much difference as you'd be dead either way.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
4 Oct 2011 3:22PM
Thumbs Up

I'm talking about adding protection in medium speed head-ons where the driver is very vulnerable.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
4 Oct 2011 1:35PM
Thumbs Up

There's a theory that the bar folds back comes through the sheet metal and chops you at the knees. A bit like the steel caps in safety shoes cutting your toes off. Probably both myths. Progressive crumple is what slows down the peak deceleration. Bullbars being mounted down below probably bend fairly easily until the chassis rails take up the strain. So probably not much.

What bullbars do do is make it much worse for pedestrians. A flat deformable panel is much better to collide with than a cheese grater..

grandfromage
WA, 344 posts
4 Oct 2011 1:48PM
Thumbs Up

I haven't seen many pedestrians carrying bull bars. I guess normally they don't travel fast enough to need them, not to mention being really heavy.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
4 Oct 2011 1:56PM
Thumbs Up

I have a bull bar on my van and it sucks.. It's anti-social, ugly, heavy, I feel like Mr Plow.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
4 Oct 2011 5:29PM
Thumbs Up

My van has a little bull bar on the front but it does not look very strong. From what I have read, after market bars usually are more likely to cause injury. However if you are driving a van that protects your feet with a thin sheet of metal then it probably doesn't make much difference. Your legs and feet will be crushed either way in a moderate front on collision. Your best bet if you are having a collision could be to pull up your legs if you get a chance.

Wet Willy
TAS, 2316 posts
4 Oct 2011 5:51PM
Thumbs Up

Sounds like a decent monster truck would be the way to go!

nbr
QLD, 291 posts
4 Oct 2011 5:23PM
Thumbs Up

I got rear ended by a Kenworth truck in march and rammed into a ute,I can thank my lucky stars that one it was a VW and two that I had a Bull bar.The van was written off and all I got was some scratches on my feet from the pedals.

nick0
NSW, 510 posts
4 Oct 2011 7:54PM
Thumbs Up

Ian K said...

There's a theory that the bar folds back comes through the sheet metal and chops you at the knees. A bit like the steel caps in safety shoes cutting your toes off. Probably both myths. Progressive crumple is what slows down the peak deceleration. Bullbars being mounted down below probably bend fairly easily until the chassis rails take up the strain. So probably not much.

What bullbars do do is make it much worse for pedestrians. A flat deformable panel is much better to collide with than a cheese grater..


.. done on myth busters .. what cuts ya toes off is what eva is droped hits the steel toe and either slides of the front or slides of the back and into your unprotected foot althou that said if it was farge enough and flat it would just squash the steel insert flat anny who

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
4 Oct 2011 7:45PM
Thumbs Up

nbr said...

I got rear ended by a Kenworth truck in march and rammed into a ute,I can thank my lucky stars that one it was a VW and two that I had a Bull bar.The van was written off and all I got was some scratches on my feet from the pedals.




Jebus!!!

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
4 Oct 2011 8:25PM
Thumbs Up

I fitted a kn huge bullbar on my old hiace commuter when I was travelling into melbourne regularly.
Once I got the bar, everybody gave me room ,very few cars cutting off the slow old bus.
the only scratches it ever got were from pushing the occasional little firewood tree.
If I bought another van I wouldnt hesitate to put one on

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
5 Oct 2011 9:25PM
Thumbs Up

fark , did I kill another thread[}:)]

barn
WA, 2960 posts
5 Oct 2011 10:45PM
Thumbs Up

landyacht said...

I fitted a kn huge bullbar on my old hiace commuter when I was travelling into melbourne regularly.
Once I got the bar, everybody gave me room ,very few cars cutting off the slow old bus.
the only scratches it ever got were from pushing the occasional little firewood tree.
If I bought another van I wouldnt hesitate to put one on


Why stop at the bullbar, how bout some hubcaps with swords so those mortals will give you more room..


It's for reasons like this that roads are a lot more dangerous than they could be.. It's as if it's a farking arms race crossed with small mans syndrome..

I used to work in the damaged vehicle industry and we had one Hilux that was involved in a fatality. A girl was in the passenger seat of a Laser that got T-boned at medium speed by this hilux equipped with a 'kn huge bullbar'.. The owner of the hilux came in to my work to collect his belongings from it, and gloated at how little damage his truck received.. Then he told me how the Boyfriend driving the laser ran a light, and that the girl had hit her head on the bullbar, he felt zero remorse that his 'death trap' killed someone... Then he was asking about buying the truck back at auction, so I farked the driveshaft and doors up with my forklift..

Would any of us like to be hit by a bullbar? no, so return the favor..

KenHo
NSW, 1353 posts
6 Oct 2011 2:59AM
Thumbs Up

One of the reasons I avoided a Toyota van, was because of the forward control position. The ride is horrible, and only made worse by having a big steel bull-bar adding stress to the shocks.
Adding a steel bull-bar should always include a suspension upgrade, or you adversely affect ride, handling, and braking, as well as shagging the existing suspension in no time.
I had a Hilux with one, that had turned the leaf springs upside down.
The Merc and VW vans are a much better ride, with the car-like position and some crumple space between you and an impact. The trade-off , of course is the loss of Japanese reliability in exchange for Euro-dodginess.
Maybe the Hyundai's really are the best option.

nosinkanow
NSW, 441 posts
6 Oct 2011 1:45PM
Thumbs Up

ikw777 said...

Does anyone know if fitting a bull bar or Roo bar to the front of a van improve it's frontal impact resistance or would it just make things worse?


In the case below it wouldn't have made any difference.

If this VW T3 doesn't put you off van's I dunno what would! Admittedly it's load exceeded its carrying capacity, 2 tonne.


ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
6 Oct 2011 1:08PM
Thumbs Up

barn said...
I used to work in the damaged vehicle industry and we had one Hilux that was involved in a fatality. A girl was in the passenger seat of a Laser that got T-boned at medium speed by this hilux equipped with a 'kn huge bullbar'.. The owner of the hilux came in to my work to collect his belongings from it, and gloated at how little damage his truck received.. Then he told me how the Boyfriend driving the laser ran a light, and that the girl had hit her head on the bullbar, he felt zero remorse that his 'death trap' killed someone...


Jebus what a pr1ck!

Stuthepirate
SA, 3589 posts
6 Oct 2011 1:51PM
Thumbs Up

ikw777 said...

Does anyone know if fitting a bull bar or Roo bar to the front of a van improve it's frontal impact resistance or would it just make things worse?


Driving any van and avoiding serious injury when involved in a head on collision is unlikely due to driver position. I'd only recommend a bullbar if you do a lot of country driving and even then limiting driving around dawn and dusk times to reduce fauna strikes. For city or suburban driving there really is no need to be equipping a van or any vehicle with that kind of protection.

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
6 Oct 2011 3:11PM
Thumbs Up

Looks like bullbars are a bad idea. Maybe forward control vans too...

Might have to settle for euro style dodgy reliability...

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
6 Oct 2011 1:49PM
Thumbs Up

There are all sorts of collisions. In a T bone collision the wheel and axle on an old style van probably acts as a better side intrusion bar than the one in the door of a ford laser. And your head might be above the top rung of that bullbar on the ubiquitous Hilux.

Any car with curtain airbags should be better still. Curtain airbags are a great invention, make sure your next car has them.

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
6 Oct 2011 5:46PM
Thumbs Up

There are a few Japanese vans that have the motor up the front. The Hiace previous to the current model has a motor at the front. The Mitsubishi Delica and the Express with the same body has the motor up the front. The Nissan Elgrand has an engine infront of the driver instead of under the feet.

KenHo
NSW, 1353 posts
6 Oct 2011 6:03PM
Thumbs Up

ikw777 said...

Looks like bullbars are a bad idea. Maybe forward control vans too...

Might have to settle for euro style dodgy reliability...



Seriously, look at the iLoad.
I needed to build $5K of lease payout from my previous vehicle , plus a bunch of after market add-ons into my current car, which would have made the balloon too big on a Hyundai, or I'd have got one. Plus there was a huge tax break at the time, so the more expensive car was actually a better option. Vito's are great, but fixing them gets very expensive once the warranty expires. Swings and roundabouts, as usual.
There should be heaps of decent used iLoads on the market by now.

Wet Willy
TAS, 2316 posts
6 Oct 2011 6:25PM
Thumbs Up

nosinkanow said...

ikw777 said...

Does anyone know if fitting a bull bar or Roo bar to the front of a van improve it's frontal impact resistance or would it just make things worse?


In the case below it wouldn't have made any difference.

If this VW T3 doesn't put you off van's I dunno what would! Admittedly it's load exceeded its carrying capacity, 2 tonne.





But look! The rear section, carrying the masts, sails, boards etc is relatively undamaged!



Stuthepirate
SA, 3589 posts
6 Oct 2011 5:56PM
Thumbs Up

ikw777 said...

Looks like bullbars are a bad idea. Maybe forward control vans too...

Might have to settle for euro style dodgy reliability...


Mate, the only van you should get is a Holden Panel Van.
Lots of steel, reliable and friggin' cooool.
Never late with a 308

easty
TAS, 2213 posts
6 Oct 2011 6:54PM
Thumbs Up

I had a Kombi with a bullbar (did lots of driving in the country), but apart frrom fending off roos, it's main function was to hang towels and wetties on to dry. Very usefull.
If you drive a van (and I did for about 15 years) you should be thinking about driving slow enough to (hopefully) avoid having to use the bullbar - chill out, cruise, and enjoy the scenery. Actually, do this whatever you drive!

ikw777
QLD, 2995 posts
6 Oct 2011 6:19PM
Thumbs Up

easty said...

If you drive a van (and I did for about 15 years) you should be thinking about driving slow enough to (hopefully) avoid having to use the bullbar - chill out, cruise, and enjoy the scenery. Actually, do this whatever you drive!




DrJ
ACT, 481 posts
6 Oct 2011 7:25PM
Thumbs Up

nosinkanow said...

ikw777 said...

Does anyone know if fitting a bull bar or Roo bar to the front of a van improve it's frontal impact resistance or would it just make things worse?


In the case below it wouldn't have made any difference.

If this VW T3 doesn't put you off van's I dunno what would! Admittedly it's load exceeded its carrying capacity, 2 tonne.





Feckin bells that's shocking!

patsken
WA, 705 posts
6 Oct 2011 4:39PM
Thumbs Up

I have a 2000 model Ford Ecovan (Mazda 2200??) that had a windscreen wiper motor problem which meant I had to remove the dash to fix it.

Ever since then I drive a lot more cautiously in it !!

The only thing between your knees and whatever you hit up front is a flimsy front panel, a heap of wiring harness, a dash that is a mix of light steel and plastic crap - all mounted on a 50ish mm steel tube which attaches to the door pillar section with a couple of bolts each side.

The only thing a bull-bar would do in a front on is help push the whole front end and steering column into you knees and lower body..... ZERO crash rating I would think.

Next van for me is most likely an Iload.

ginger pom
VIC, 1746 posts
6 Oct 2011 9:26PM
Thumbs Up

I put one on my hiace.

Rationale being that without one it's like having a coke can stick taped to each patella for protection.

I figured the most likely crash where I lived the time (wanky suburb called Brighton in Melbourne) was getting hit by a mum in a big 4wd at low speed while she was on her phone, sipping latte and talking to her kid in the back.

Bull bars would be enough to protect my knees in that situation so I got them

knigit
WA, 319 posts
6 Oct 2011 6:52PM
Thumbs Up

ginger pom said...

I put one on my hiace.

I figured the most likely crash where I lived the time (wanky suburb called Brighton in Melbourne) was getting hit by a mum in a big 4wd at low speed while she was on her phone, sipping latte and talking to her kid in the back.





Almoooost hit one of these bimbos yesterday. Coming the opposite way to me she turned right on a roundabout without indicating and of course was on the kn phone. Briefly locked up but I was going fairly slow luckily. Dopey woman didn't hear or see a thing, totally oblivious.

firiebob
WA, 3145 posts
6 Oct 2011 7:06PM
Thumbs Up

If you have a van and want a bull/roo bar do it, I did but mines a 4x4 van, spreads the load across the front. I've tested mine, a rear ender into a 4x4 trayback my fault and everyone had happy feet
If a real 4x4 or truck etc tries to come through your door at speed you're in trouble if they have a bull bar or not, hell even a Commodore will ruin your day. 9 times out of 10 in a side impact what will get you is your own B pillar, as some one said side air bags are gold.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"Van Safety" started by ikw777