In the day like today I wish to have 10 m2 sail ( 10-15 knots max, but stable) . But my JP 91 L hardly could support 7.5m2. Just not enough to get planing comfortably.
But on everyday sailing what could be advantage to have Formula gear?
How they can perform when wind is 25knot and above?
How it compare to ordinary ( small ) board and sail?
I never saw on my spot (Shaerwater, GC, QLD) professional Formula rider, so I wonder how do they perform against standard windsurfer, handle 20 knt++ , and chop.
in planing wind [12-15] a formula board is a good 2 knots slower for top-speed.
adding a 10.0m sail will further reduce top-speed.
a 68cm wide board and 7.8m is a popular choice these days for light wind sailing,providing more feel and enjoyment.
in less wind a Formula board is still the way to go.
formula boards above 15 knots,not much fun,too slow.
in 25 knots,survival mode.
Personally, I think it depends on the kind of sailing you want to do (and how much you weigh as lighter people have more gear options below 10 knots). When I was evaluating purchasing formula a few months ago, I asked myself a few questions:
Windrange?
Planing?
Back and forth or touring?
I answered 5-15 to cover those light sea breeze days we've had so often in SEQ in the last year, and I wanted to plane as I have a SUP to cover non-planing sailing, and I wanted to tour the bay, so being able to go up and down wind was important.
This all led to FW, and I've loved it. I've sailed 7 times since purchase (9 weeks ago), 5 only because of FW, and I missed two nice light FW days due to being sick. A pretty good return for a weekend sailer in autumn/winter and way above my sailing rate of the last 18 months.
What I've learned thus far:
# <10 knots and reaching is comfortable and fun
# It handles chop better than my slalom board thanks to the huge amount of rocker
# Once you figure out the gybe technique it's actually not so bad (just hit this yesterday)
# 15 knots + 11m + deep downwind = a serious rush, but I think I want more
# If there's a chance of the wind reaching 7 knots I go sailing
# my normal 10-15 knot kit (75cm & 7.8) may not get much use in the future
# I'm loving the challenge and it's improved my small board sailing (this has surprised me)
I've not sailed shearwater, but it's mostly shorter runs and sandbanks isn't it? I don't know I'd go for formula in that setting (70cm fin). A smaller fin can be used of course, and may even be recommended for back and forth sailing.
Another option is the big slalom kit. You lose the upwind ability but gain a bit in comfort. Cost may come into this as there seems to be a good amount of 2nd-hand FW around at nice prices as the racers change their kit for next season, maybe less availability in the big slalom range.
For me, now I've had a few sessions, formula all the way as it just has so much range (though I'm considering a 9.7 for windier days), and take along a smaller board for when it's 15+ and I don't feel like testing my metal :-)
Hamish
Formula rider in this competition vs trimaran looks quite comfortable , both with speed and big chop
but do you really want to look like that guy standing sideways as he tries to gybe his 100cm wide board ? It just looks so bad
formula - great for going upwind - miserable on the downwinders
Big slalom gear all the way 8.5s and 45 cm fins , or Bagged out 7.5s and 120 litre boards will get you fanging in 10 knots - and the gybes still look good.
Almost convinced but the shallows on Broadwater are quite difficult to predict.
So Formula with two or three smaller fins or fin that could swing when hit the bottom could be nice.
I've seen what I think is an older RRD free formula board with two fins in the back. Other than that are there any bigger boards with multiple fins?
Perhaps you could source a cheaper older formula board and use a smaller fin than the standard 70cm.
Formula sailing looks fantastic, blasting along in low wind strengths. However the fragility of the rigs along with the immense tension needed to rig them makes them a bit scary.
instead of going all in on formula - go larger slalom / fast freeride gear
instead of planing in 7 knots you plane in 8 - 9
you can sail comfortably on a reach
the gear actually gybes well
it is actually fun to sail, you can plane out of gybes and flick the rig without feeling like you are trying to lift an engine block
Formula gear costs a bomb - you need to have specialised mega masts and megabooms
large slalom / freeride gear has a much higher range of use - ok so you have to wait for 8- 9 knots instead of 6-7 - but after that you are having at least 10 times more fun
Formula is dying worldwide ... (thankfully)
Formula is alive and well in NSW.
Why wish a class of board to fail?
When I got back into windsurfing in 2007 I was amazed how windsurfing had changed with formula boards. Clearly formula has changed windsurfing for the better in that they allow planing at much lower wind speeds. Sure formula not for everyone but planing at lower wind speed is something most windsurfers can appreciate every now and then.
Planing on large freeride gear under 10 knots will be a marginal proposition at best and soon gets a bit boring. However with formula it would be quite full on and formula also gives you the option of a bit of sailing upwind and downwind.
Sure as a class it may not be popular over in WA where you are blessed with strong and consistent winds for much of the year. In other places its a good class. Plus where formula is an active class it means there is a fair range of gear passed down from the racers to more recreational sailors.
If big slalom board, which one is the first to get planing this days? I have older fanatic 130L, 270cm x 70, with 45 cm fin, that should support any size sail, but I think board is not very efficient in light winds and need plenty of power to get planing.
Hey Reflex, I dig your flicks but someone has to set you straight regarding Formula.
I started sailing formula last year to get more time on the water, and I can tell you it requires real skill, strength and technique to get those massive weapons humming.
Couple that with the knowledge required to tune them, along with learning fleet skills such as racing starts and tactics, they are an awesome challenge. The gear is high tech and light weight.
The East Coast racing has a healthy growing fleet and a really high sailing standard.
Check out www.fw-australia.com/ or www.storm-riders.com.au and learn a bit. It's a full commitment class that requires heaps of skill and is awesome to sail.
If you're nice you may even score some work from us
) would do their backs in trying to manage 9 & 10m sails..
Another question. If you look at this magnificent video Formula vs Trimaran.
I don;t know what is actual speed. I guess 20-23 knots- (correct if me if I am wrong).
Imagine yourself on your board chasing this trimaran beast.
Will you be comfortable pursuing at this swells in straight line one kilometer after another?
This Formula board looks for me like comfortable limousine. For sure we can go faster on F1 (speed board) but for how long?
Anyway that reminds me racing in New Zealand from Auckland to Whangarei open for all sailing classes. And the guy on windsurfer did all this 150Km++ trip on ocean waves against big boats with quite good result.
I don't think anybody here could repeat this on Sydney to Hobart trip, but will be interesting to see 100 km ++ endurance race here.
Fair enough... formula isn't for everyone.
Don't exactly understand the arguments for cost and size of gear though? If you're comparing a 9m slalom sail to a 10m slalom sail the mast and boom are the same?
You don't need anything bigger than 10m if you are just lightwind cruising. I use the same boom from 8.5m slalom up to 12m formula.
Lightwind slalom is fun but it lacks the one thing that formula has, that you can go upwind/downwind at big angles. Surely its more fun (especially at the Broadwater, GC) to go cruising up and around Wavebreak island rather than just sailing backwards and forwards on one sandbank like you can only do on slalom. You can go exploring on the formula kit... makes the afternoon in 8 knots a bit more pleasurable.
Sure you might get "planing" on slalom kit in 10 knots on a smaller sail, but you spend the whole time dogging. On formula kit you are powered up in that wind and sailing double the speed of any boat out on the water... it's good fun.
It's also cheap if you buy second hand. I just sold a 1 year old board for $800 the other day; sails even cheaper. Find me an 133 iSonic 2010 for $800 and I'll buy you a beer ;-)
Topic summary so far:
someone asks for recommendation of all round sailing abilities of formula gear - with reference to 20 - 25 knots as well as other conditions (and then continues to ask vague and rambling questions about unrelated equipment throughout the thread)
Pro Formula opinions given with Valid points - light wind performance , big group racing in NSW , dont care how silly gybing looks
Anti formula points given by reflex - big slalom gear has more wind range for sacrifice of some low end planing (maybe this is good for places that get lots of 12- 18 knots -like parts of qld) , not into aesthetic of Formula , expense of gear (sails up to $1400 unless sponsored - and half the fleet is sponsored)
response by NSW Formula riders -second hand gear cheap (so Formula is expensive for gear depreciation ?( but everyone is sponsored now so that doesnt matter - and if you arent sponsored the hit on depreciation is huge )
please keep your opinions to yourself as suddenly we have so much budget that we wish to hire a cameraman and editor (that we cant afford) from WA to fly over to shoot and edit (now that would be a boring job!) some racing but now we may just decide to do it ourselves.
I have sailed Formula , and have sailed Apollo (a larger than Formula legal size with a 75 cm fin) with 12m in 6 knots fanging - but much preferred a grunty 8.5 (Low end light weight power sail with 2 cams) in 7knots on the same board- still and it feels horrible to me.
But i fully support your right to enjoy it. Without loving it myself. Its great that there are lots of (mostly sponsored) riders in NSW enjoying tactical planing racing.
Where is our next Steve Allen / Phil Mcgain / Scott mckercher coming from ? Why arent we producing the world beaters that we used to ( a bit like aussie tennis right now EDIT -go the aTOMIC !) Why do international riders come over and win the top spots in events held here ?
Arguably the underground freestyle discipline has produced the most talented sailor in Australia at this point in time. And as far as i can tell there is no freestyle organisation arranging events / sponsorship etc etc
Formula is not for everyone, but here are the reasons I gravitate towards it.
- Like most people, I'm time poor so I can't afford to be sitting on the beach.
- I want to sail when "I" get a window, not wait for conditions that suits my kit.
- FW reduces the "guess" work. I go to beach, rig up and sail.
- Gear selection is easier as only 1 board, 2 sails, 1 boom and 2 masts (1 back up).
True, sometimes the gear is used way out of its range (25+knots) and is not necessarily enjoyable, but at least I got a sail in.
note: I actually enjoy these extreme conditions now.
- I hate wasting precious time dogging. I always like to be powered up.
- I hate not being able to sail where I want, Exploring is much more fun.
- I can sail almost anywhere, eg 5mins down the road at Sydney Harbour.
- I love sailing at new venues (mostly during the NSW races series).
- I can take my kids out for a sail.
- Board floats. I have not done a water start in 10yrs. Shark phobia no more!
- My gear actually gets used instead of gathering dust. Hence i buy new gear every season, and I'm not sponsored by anyone. This is probably one of the reasons we (NSW) have so much great value 2nd had equipment available.
I understand I'm a bit unique, but when i'm out sailing and all the kites etc are sitting on the beach, i almost feel sorry for them!
PS: We sailed high-wind FW on Swan river many years ago and "yes" it was extreme, but it was also a ton of fun that we still talk about today.
Happy winter everyone....
this was the question originally posted
OP asked how formula gear compared to his normal (small) board.. He asked how they perform in 20+ knots and chop.. Badly is the answer to both..
And thats why its so cheap.. For the sensible sailor, Formula is overkill..
If 92 is your biggest board, and you want to get out in lighter winds, your better off jumping to a 120 and a 9m.. You will enjoy it more, but you will have to forget about going out in 6knots.. (I know, what a tragedy)
What I have learnt, is Formula guys are quite touchy, almost as much as Ezzy sailors and PrydeHards..
Formula can be summarised by the strange attraction for humans to want to race each other in the most absurdly impractical contraptions available. Here is a small sample if some of the internets silliest racing classes..
How demanding is then sailing on Formula?
Brett is saying that he didn't waterstart in 10 years , I didn't uphoul in last 2 years.
Because I didn't have a chance to try I am not sure if I will be able to handle such big sail. Do you need to be super athlete to uphoul and then keep the board fying or just anybody could do so?
My only recent experience with bigger board was on Vanuatu when resort had only one 220L or bigger Staboard ( possibly the biggest Starbord in the world) with old textile triangle sail and no harness.
I know that to get this stuff planing was on the absolute border of my tendons breaking point and strength. My son which is much better sailor then me but 20 kg lighter couldn't force this bird to fly.
