I agree with Reflex and Barn
The O.P asked about how he can get planing in 10-15 kn and for that you do not need a formula board.
No need for the formula guys to get upset - it is true he does not need a formula and a big freeride is much more manageable for the average person who does not want to learn a whole different kinda technique to use a formula board.
Macros,
It might be a little bit of a shock if you jumped from a 92L board to a formula with 10m+ sail as the new setup will feel very big and heavy. However with practice and proper rigging of the sail, you will find the sail will feel relatively light and balanced in the hands when plaining. Formula boards do work really well in lightwinds when everything else does not. Formula boards in general are high performance light wind weapons. If you decide to go for some thing not 100cm wide like a pure formula board, some of the lightwind slalom, freerace style boards which are 80-90cm wide, light weight, and relatively userfriendly and can easily carry a 7-8m sail would be the next step down. As you already have a 7.5m sail it would just be a matter of hunting for a board. In many ways a 7.5m sail on a JP92L is a bit of an overkill even if you put a larger fin. I think 13-20kts on a 120L-140L board is the way to go. I also think having a board which is very light makes it easier to pump onto a plain, so going for at least a wood sandwich construction or even better carbon is a good idea.
Down the road you may want to windsurf in even lighter winds and this is when you should go for the formula or freeformula setup. It can be very fun and exciting to be plaining when winds are so light.
...and I agree with you Mark, the O.P. doesn't need formula to plane in 10-15.
He did, however, ask what are the advantages of formula gear, and how it handles 25 knots.
We (the formula guys) aren't upset at all, just correcting some misinformation in this thread. If you want to race lawn mowers or play on your nintendo rather than get out on the water - whatever float's your boat. (not you Mark_A)
Formula's not just about racing, I very rarely race, but love cruising around the bay - going wherever I want. Planing flat out in 5cm chop is an awesome feeling.
I used to sail in the waves, but if it wasn't 25 knots and cross shore we couldn't be bothered. That's what got me out of the sport in the '90s. Now I'm back into it and I want to get out as much as I can.
I disagree with Reflex and Barn.
I've got an Apollo and I luv it. That being said I would not use it in 20+ knots.
The problem seems to be how to not plane in 10 to 15 knots.
Had some of my best(most enjoyable,injury free) days sailing on that board.
You seem to be going real fast but a quick glance at the gps tells another story in my case.My ISO94 allways seems to be conspiring to maim me
.
The only negative I can find is the transport issues.
I think I am about to buy my first formula kit. Just moved to Singapore where I get the feeling the wind is pretty light. I took my 8.7/121 isonic out yesturday and got planing in 9-11 knots 40% of the time. Didn't get wet and felt sick from being overheated...(maybe the first game of squash for 5 years in the morning didn't help) but now I am thinking big sail/big board and I'll get planning in <10knots.
Seems very big over here along with techno and RS:X. I am a big fan of rig as small as you can so big in light winds and get on the water. I have found a bit of technique and patience gets around uphauling big sails.
Having two very young kids I have limited windows for sailing. I tried a longboard for lightwinds and family fun but the Formula guys were smokin me, pointing higher and going faster and 70cm is a little wobbly for 4 year olds.
I have a 121L with a 7.8m and now a Formula with a 10m and 11m. The first few sails on the Formula have been awesome and there is no way I would have been planing on the 121L - not even close.
It can be hard work, I was actually working up a winter sweat when in 15+kts on the 11m but exhilarating.
I also like the ability to explore. I remember a couple of summers watching Magna head out from Pelican Point in 10kts and next thing you know he's heading to Point Walter.
I think it was a good move buying Formula gear and I will have heaps more planing TOW. Highly recommend it.
Makes me think about my dinghy sailing days. Moths (scow) and Lasers had a similar Yardstick. Lasers were really simple and easy to sail. Moths were quite technical, a little outhaul or cunningham could make a huge difference. I loved the Moth, tweak, tweak. Clearly heaps of people loved Lasers. Each to their own.
oh i got red thumbed for telling the truth
i feel realy sorry for those who arnt trying out for the Olympics because formula not in it
May be worth considering a old or new longboard/raceboard, I have recently got involved with course racing. Have sailed every weekend for the last 7 weeks at Paradise Point (close to shearwater). They are a pleasure to sail in all directions, I wouldnt argue that they are better or worse than any other windsurfing discipline just different. I Love planing on my freeride gear that I sail at Shearwater and I have no intention getting rid of it but racing has opened up a side of windsurfing that has been lost to me for many years
You have to be super fit, and good to get the most out of any race gear. If your objective is to just go 'for a fang' big freeride gear is gonna beat race gear hands down, and you can sail it for hours comfortably.
But if your keen to get fit and give racing a crack, do it coz it is fun, but it's also demanding on your body and your wallet.
And 25 knots is the last place you wanna be on formula gear, thats 5 meter weather!
There really ain,t no formula!!!!!!its just like riding a big board and sail like it was in the late 70.s 80.s and 90,s its called windsurfing,the social side divide took place with the intoduction of the short board and the subsequent demise of the relationship with the yatching fraternity took hold,,ya more professional type stayed with the long board and the rebellious type went with the short board,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i somtimes miss cruising about on a hugeeeeeeeMassive sail in mirror to 20kts talking about different lakes and stuff with the proffessional type,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,With what i ride now i
thought i would present an olive branch to the Formula crowd...
i saw this over on the kite forum- kite racing vs Moth / 49 er
I like that thing on stilts.
Even though it all looks a bit contrived to me. the kiter's sail seems larger than the sails of the boats. Is that because the boats have to sail a certain sail size in their categories or did the kiter just have an unfair advantage? I'd personally would prefer the 49er as a toy
Wow, I am really impressed at how high the kites can point.
I used to race AMAC and Rowen Veal on their foiling Moths every Saturday, 2 to 3 seasons ago on a Formula board. I could do it pretty easy in 15 knots plus, but if it was 11.8 weather I couldn't match them upwind.
Where the Moth is super fast is in stuff where a Formula board can hardly plane and I doubt a kite would be up as well. 6-8knots.
In that stuff I reckon the Moth is untouchable, AMAC can lap 14ft Skiffs easily.
Now I am an absolute hack on a Formula board , the top guy's would lap me so it would be an interesting Race to put the 3 world champs together, Kite, Moth and Formula.
What a great test. Really interesting to see how far sailing has come.
In those conditions (10knots?) I imagine a Formula board would be slightly slower than the moth? I think as it gets windier/rougher the Formula board would start to have an advantage?
I know the "around San Fran" race this year in 30knots, a kite won by 14secs from a FW board after a 90min race....
If Macroscien eventually ends up getting a formula board he can race the moth that comes out every Sunday up at Paradise Point. Thing flies in a sparrow's fart.
BTW Macro I sail in same spots you do. I find a 110 litre Starboard Carve and a 7.2 KA Koyote can get me planing if the kites are out. I won't guess at the wind speed, but most of the kites are on the beach. The biggest difference was adding a decent 40cm fin. I weigh 80kg.
I would mind a NP Helium or similar, and a 42 cm fin, with a bit less rake.
The big question is whether this thread will get more views than the windsurfing girls thread.
Yeah that race in San Francisco was a bit silly. Why ride formula gear when its so windy?
Maybe that is next step in Formula evolution
Tandem Formula ( or Formula Plus) but not like that :
I suggest one big board, one massive sail and couple hanging off one boom.
Pro -much closer contact allow to survive winter cold here on GC,
and nobody will complain on the excessive chop on Shearwater
speed is no issue here
not like that either
more like that but windsurfing version, please
^ Perhaps the guys racing on Sundays up at Paradise Point could tell us. They are on (usually)? non-planing race boards.
I can't imagine the moth in 25 knots.
Perhaps you want something like this:
I've raced lot's of foiling moths in the past 2 years in Brisbane, Sydney and Lake Macquarie.
Anything above 6 knots a formula board KILLS them (as long as you are comparing world class moth sailors to world class formula sailors). Anything below 6, the formula's cannot plane however the moths seem to foil in 4 knots and travel the same VMG. Almost no comparison to a good formula sailor in anything above 6 knots however fast the moths look...
In regards to the San Fran races... guys pick formula instead of slalom boards because you can travel so much deeper on a formula board compared to a slalom board because of the width of the tails and the larger fins you can run on formula boards. You might think a slalom board is quicker but remember that 75-85cm wide slalom boards are built for light winds and have almost no rocker and wide tails; they are actually quite horrific to sail in strong winds. A 60cm wide slalom board cannot sail anywhere near the angles of a formula board in any winds.
I'll have to dig for some results but there is a lot of kite-vs-formula races having taken place across America over the years and generally windsurfers have won them all if they are 'course racing' related. Interesting Brett mentions the recent ones - will have to check! Hard to say how all these classes compare because you can't just compare the equipment yourself, you need to have the same level pilots behind them. No use comparing world champion kiters to local formula sailors or vice versa... Think there needs to be a world-class event somewhere to see the real difference.
Based on the stats I've collected over the years on boats and windsurfers, formula is actually the fastest racing craft out there if you exclude maxi's, big boats/AC boats etc. The top formula sailors actually can beat 18 ft's around a course in over 12 knots (not below) generally, believe it or not. A top formula sailor can do 49 degree upwind angles at 16 knots board speed in 15 knots with an 11m sail.... 18's go a little higher but not usually that quick.
+ catapulting..
From what i've seen the Moth class in the big events are mostly foilers nowdays.
I'd love to get Formula gear - if only I could sneak it into my shed unnoticed. I live at the top end of port phillip bay where on a northerly it is pretty flat - the idea of smoking all the keel boaters upwind in there $500k yachts sounds cool to me.
