Forums > Windsurfing General

how thick is the laminate (bottom punctured)

Reply
Created by racerX > 9 months ago, 19 Jan 2014
racerX
462 posts
19 Jan 2014 3:07PM
Thumbs Up



Found this after I got of the plane and after I went for a sail.

Obviously the carbon has cracked and the divinyl cell but is the another layer before you get to styro foam? There is definitely some water in there but trying to assess how much, and what type of temporary repair to get myself going again.

So how thick Is the laminate typically and how can I know if is letting water through to the core ?

Thanks

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
19 Jan 2014 3:12PM
Thumbs Up

Would not be thru to the core so it is not going to actively soak up water, and so if you had to sail it back to shore it is not stuffed.
But water will get under the glass which is not ideal so you should not use it until repaired. Presuming that area is about 5cm square?
If so, good blob of EPOXY Solarez or Knead-it would do the job well enough to sail it until a proper repair is done

dan berry
WA, 2562 posts
19 Jan 2014 3:37PM
Thumbs Up

I would have thought that would have sucked a heap of water. I've had dings way smaller than that have taken water. Pm dunko he has a patented way of blowing water out of a board.

hoop
1979 posts
19 Jan 2014 3:49PM
Thumbs Up

Please can we never mention Dunko's board drying technique again? I'm still a little bit scarred from that one

dan berry
WA, 2562 posts
19 Jan 2014 4:56PM
Thumbs Up

Haha. What? You don't endorse it?????

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
19 Jan 2014 9:22PM
Thumbs Up

if water went in it will come out, just leave the vent in the board for a few days and see if any water comes out, when you repair it make sure the vent is out

decrepit
WA, 12209 posts
19 Jan 2014 9:36PM
Thumbs Up

the laminate is typically 3mm sometimes 5mm. I disagree with Mark here, I think that damage looks bad enough to let water into the core.
I also disagree with keith, if it isn't damaged through to the core and you leave the bung in, you could cause more damage. My advice is to pick out the loose fractured stuff first, that way you've got a good chance of seeing if the inner layer of glass is broken. If you can't tell like that, store it somewhere, so the damage is the lowest point and see how much water leaks out, (with the bung out).
If you're convinced the inner layer is holed, then try keiths method, bung in, in the sun, still with the damage at the lowest point. heating the board should force water out. Using a towel or something else absorbent as a wick could also help. If you can get the towel in contact with the wet core, and leave a reasonable amount of it in a breeze, that will also help.
If you know anybody with a vacuum pump, that's the quickest way.

racerX
462 posts
20 Jan 2014 11:21AM
Thumbs Up

I pulled a small bit of the laminate away so that I could see the core, its hard to tell if the core would have been sealed. But there is definitely water in the there. Hard to know how much. I left it in Perth sun yesterday, only ever a dribble appearing. Can the glass/divi cell layer hold water? Anyway waited until the dribble stopped and put some solerez on it and went sailing.

Should I open it up again and repeat again? Or just wait a week until I get back.

Man0verBoard
WA, 629 posts
20 Jan 2014 12:13PM
Thumbs Up

If you like, bring it to me and I'll vac it out. Least time you leave water in a board the better.
Pm'd you
Cheers

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
20 Jan 2014 3:35PM
Thumbs Up

what you have is the core , glass ,divinicell, glass, the glass over the divinicell has a filler coat and a sealer , the glass over the core hasn't, so if you have a fracture in the divinicell water will get into the core

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
20 Jan 2014 4:53PM
Thumbs Up

I had a smaller ding than that & it took in water.

Leave it ding facing down, tape multiple thickness's of paper towel to act as wick when not vacuuming water out of hole.
Then use your vacuum cleaner (with swim towel over end to seal) at regular intervals to suck water out.
may take a week or so but very effective.
Then Knead it.

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
20 Jan 2014 1:57PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
keef said..
what you have is the core , glass ,divinicell, glass, the glass over the divinicell has a filler coat and a sealer , the glass over the core hasn't, so if you have a fracture in the divinicell water will get into the core


If the d'cell is fractured, but not the glass under it, how does water then get to the styro?

Man0verBoard
WA, 629 posts
20 Jan 2014 2:47PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..

keef said..
what you have is the core , glass ,divinicell, glass, the glass over the divinicell has a filler coat and a sealer , the glass over the core hasn't, so if you have a fracture in the divinicell water will get into the core


If the d'cell is fractured, but not the glass under it, how does water then get to the styro?


In my experience if the pvc foam is fractured, so too will the glass under it be. More often than not that glass binder under the foam is not impervious to air and water due to pinholes. Just one pinhole can take in plenty of water. Its also common to find a pinhole through the pvc - anomalies in the cell structure.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
20 Jan 2014 6:04PM
Thumbs Up

mark that dent is at least 10mm deep and the d'cell is 3mm thick , what you need to do is get a glass of water say 250mls and just pore a little bit of water into the void, if the water stays there I would safely say its sealed , if it disappears repeat just to double check, if it takes the 250ml you mite need to refill the glass
think about it mark, laminating resin is thin and only wets out the glass and the rest of the resin falls into the core , its the same as if you laminated the outer later without a filler coat and a sealer the board will leak

John340
QLD, 3172 posts
20 Jan 2014 5:46PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
racerX said..



Found this after I got of the plane and after I went for a sail.


Do you mean that the board was damaged on the airplane, but you did not notice when next rigged up to sail and you only noticed once you came back ashore?

If this is the case, how long had you sailed with the damaged board?

Man0verBoard
WA, 629 posts
20 Jan 2014 5:30PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the red thumbs honey Though I do prefer roses

decrepit
WA, 12209 posts
20 Jan 2014 8:11PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
>>>>

If the d'cell is fractured, but not the glass under it, how does water then get to the styro?



I agree with Keef here, the inner layer is only thin, 2 to 4oz at the most, it's been vacuumed on, any excess resin has been sucked into the core, there's bound to be pinholes between the weave.
And I agree with Mr overboard, the strong carbon on the outside is seriously damaged, the sandwich foam is very depressed, there's very little chance the weak inner glass has survived intact.

RacerX best thing to do is take up Manoverboard's offer of a vacuum suck out.

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
20 Jan 2014 8:21PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ yeah but pinholes

Not enough to worry about any great amount of ingress in a 2hr session. Capillary action will suck in bugger all thru pinholes. Maybe 50ml ............ dry styro will suck that much if you leave the vent open for a month in north queensland.

Unless there is a proper hole thru to white foam, just fix it and don't stress.

Stress is for like a screwdriver stuck 3cm deep in the board then you sailed with a hole that size.

But that's why I asked how big it is - I am not familiar with that graphic but to me it looked like a 50mm dia area which makes the depression 2-3mm deep.........?

decrepit
WA, 12209 posts
20 Jan 2014 8:31PM
Thumbs Up

Mark don't forget temperature drop, if you put a hot board in cold water, it's going to suck! It's not just capillary action.

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
20 Jan 2014 8:47PM
Thumbs Up

^^ agreed but I still reckon bugger all. We tear open a fist sized hole on a reef, sail it back, dry it for a few days in sun then fix it and there is no big issue.

My issue is the OP wanted to know if it is a biggie, and I reckon it isn't ...... Maybe the d-cell is fractured all the way thru, maybe there are pinholes in the glass under that and maybe it took on some water. It is not the end of the earth.

needsalt
NSW, 380 posts
20 Jan 2014 11:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..

dry styro will suck that much if you leave the vent open for a month in north queensland.



So leaving the vent open in humid areas is bad? Really bad?

I tend to leave mine open because humid areas usually also equal hot sheds and hot cars. Bad idea?

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
20 Jan 2014 9:02PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ no, cos the board was probably made in Thailand and the core not dried properly anyway due to the volume of boards they make.... and all styro contains water.
Just illustrating that if you had an aussie custom board made in perth in summer, it would probably take on some water from atmosphere in FNQ or a Vic winter. Disregard.
Leave it open.

OH no we are about to start the vent open or closed thread again....

racerX
462 posts
24 Jan 2014 9:30PM
Thumbs Up

After reading through the replies, and looking at the damage, it was clear that the water had got into the core, to make matters worse i also discovered a crack on the deck, that I could only see, after leaving the board in the sun...

Dropped the board over to Adam (manoverboard), as it's a nice board, hard to replace.

400ml of water later, and board all fixed. Very pleased !!!

These are some step by step photos of the deck repair Adam did, if your interested.














decrepit
WA, 12209 posts
24 Jan 2014 9:42PM
Thumbs Up

Must have been some impact to go through the carbon/kevlar, that stuffs as tough as ---

Mark _australia
WA, 22539 posts
24 Jan 2014 10:08PM
Thumbs Up

I take back everything I said above now I realise it was a Skate TE. The bottom on them is egg shell.

Agree decrep, that was a bloody hard hit on the deck !!



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"how thick is the laminate (bottom punctured)" started by racerX