Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Game Over 65 knot 500m

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Created by Roo > 9 months ago, 25 Nov 2012
barn
WA, 2960 posts
26 Nov 2012 8:36PM
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swoosh said...
seems like a similar configuration to a kitesurfer?

Batman adapts the Sailrocket formula for speed to his mad Batkite skills.. Will the Hydrobatkite help Batman catch the Penguin? Stay tuned for next episode..


Can I like, claim this invention or something?

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
26 Nov 2012 9:31PM
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barn said...

Can I like, claim this invention or something?


Nope.




Dr Speed
68 posts
27 Nov 2012 1:05AM
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Ian K said...
A little bit similar but the major difference is that gravity is part of the equilibrium in the kiter's case and hence the kite can get overpowered. That single red arrow through the big hooked fin in the sailrocket diagram does most of the work, and as long as the super high strength material doesn't fail it will hang in there when a gravity balanced craft gives up.


The kiter diagram shows that the force, shown by the red arrow, which is equal and opposite to the aerodynamic lift, is the sum of two forces in the kiters case - gravity and hydrodynamic lift.

For sailrocket the majority of the hydrodynamic force is generated by that one hooked foil to balance the aerodynamic force. One foil in the water one in the air, (with a few other control foils that do relatively little work). It's a concept that has been around for a long time, just nobody thought it was feasible or was brave enough to take it on until now.


excellent explanation Ian K - Sailrocket is the first sailing vessel which does´nt need gravity !

DaGodfather
SA, 280 posts
27 Nov 2012 9:49AM
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Dr Speed said...
so for kiters weight is the only way to go fast




Yes, but the requirement for weight is minimised because kiters go at a very downwind angle and really only need flat water and high wind to go fast. I'm of the opinion that these records can be broken using current equipment, but 60+ knot wind plus flat water is needed with a small kite. And big set of balls.

Edit:
Seb Cattelan already did almost 60kts 100m average all the way back in 2009 in "only" 40-50 knots of wind and presumably in very choppy water:

www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=37801&uid=47

I don't see why he can't be in the same ballpark as Sailrocket with more wind, smaller kite and flatter water?

swoosh
QLD, 1926 posts
27 Nov 2012 9:34AM
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Ian K said...
A little bit similar but the major difference is that gravity is part of the equilibrium in the kiter's case and hence the kite can get overpowered. That single red arrow through the big hooked fin in the sailrocket diagram does most of the work, and as long as the super high strength material doesn't fail it will hang in there when a gravity balanced craft gives up.


The kiter diagram shows that the force, shown by the red arrow, which is equal and opposite to the aerodynamic lift, is the sum of two forces in the kiters case - gravity and hydrodynamic lift.

For sailrocket the majority of the hydrodynamic force is generated by that one hooked foil to balance the aerodynamic force. One foil in the water one in the air, (with a few other control foils that do relatively little work). It's a concept that has been around for a long time, just nobody thought it was feasible or was brave enough to take it on until now.


I figure if you attach the kite directly to the board, you could greatly reduce the mass required to balance the contraption, and tendancy to get overpowered. Steal the foil from sailrocket, borrow Lance Armstrongs Time Trial outfit, and a wack of EPO, and 65 knots done!

barn said...
Batman adapts the Sailrocket formula for speed to his mad Batkite skills.. Will the Hydrobatkite help Batman catch the Penguin? Stay tuned for next episode..


Can I like, claim this invention or something?


i'm disappointed this wasn't done in mspaint.

barn
WA, 2960 posts
27 Nov 2012 10:05AM
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Pencil and paper is almost quicker for me, but all the best inventions do start in MSpaint..

It's all quite obvious in hindsight, two foils pulling directly against each other, and gravity (or mast base pressure) is never needed to keep the thing in control..

Could SR be finally Flying The Fin?!? Even though the fin is trying to pull everything under water.. Maybe Sinking The Fin..

I doubt windsurfers could adapt this but using a Kite is interesting..


That front float on the SR is needed for stability, and probably has as much drag as a windsurfer (the spray out the back is nuts), but the thing has enough horsepower to compensate. The trick would be to reduce the size of the concept while finding a way to control the thing with minimal drag.. Gyroscopes and magnets and penguins.

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
27 Nov 2012 2:32PM
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Yes, but the requirement for weight is minimised because kiters go at a very downwind angle and really only need flat water and high wind to go fast. I'm of the opinion that these records can be broken using current equipment, but 60+ knot wind plus flat water is needed with a small kite. And big set of balls.

Edit:
Seb Cattelan already did almost 60kts 100m average all the way back in 2009 in "only" 40-50 knots of wind and presumably in very choppy water:

www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=37801&uid=47

I don't see why he can't be in the same ballpark as Sailrocket with more wind, smaller kite and flatter water?



I might be inclined to agree if the record was still 59 knots. But 65 is a different ballgame.

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.

Lets see what the Kiters do at Luderitz in the next few weeks.

Of course, if one was able to attach an L shaped foil under a kite board to pull at right angles to the lift of the kite, that could make the game on again. But there are at least a couple of large problems to solve with that:

- The direction of pull with a kite is variable
- The sailor will have to somehow control the angle of foil the underwater, and therefore it's depth, with his feet to a very fine degree.

If an auto angle of attack control mechanism could be added for the underwater foil, it could solve those problems.

But these ideas are not currently working technology. As I said before, it will take some time to develop whatever is dreamed up to a practical, controllable record breaking level.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
27 Nov 2012 1:41PM
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sailquik said...


Yes, but the requirement for weight is minimised because kiters go at a very downwind angle and really only need flat water and high wind to go fast. I'm of the opinion that these records can be broken using current equipment, but 60+ knot wind plus flat water is needed with a small kite. And big set of balls.

Edit:
Seb Cattelan already did almost 60kts 100m average all the way back in 2009 in "only" 40-50 knots of wind and presumably in very choppy water:

www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=37801&uid=47

I don't see why he can't be in the same ballpark as Sailrocket with more wind, smaller kite and flatter water?



I might be inclined to agree if the record was still 59 knots. But 65 is a different ballgame.

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.

Lets see what the Kiters do at Luderitz in the next few weeks.

Of course, if one was able to attach an L shaped foil under a kite board to pull at right angles to the lift of the kite, that could make the game on again. But there are at least a couple of large problems to solve with that:

- The direction of pull with a kite is variable
- The sailor will have to somehow control the angle of foil the underwater, and therefore it's depth, with his feet to a very fine degree.

If an auto angle of attack control mechanism could be added for the underwater foil, it could solve those problems.

But these ideas are not currently working technology. As I said before, it will take some time to develop whatever is dreamed up to a practical, controllable record breaking level.




oh and you forgot to mention that with a foil, Kiters won't be able to benefit from ground effect.

hardpole
WA, 575 posts
27 Nov 2012 12:11PM
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sausage said...
sailquik said...


Yes, but the requirement for weight is minimised because kiters go at a very downwind angle and really only need flat water and high wind to go fast. I'm of the opinion that these records can be broken using current equipment, but 60+ knot wind plus flat water is needed with a small kite. And big set of balls.

Edit:
Seb Cattelan already did almost 60kts 100m average all the way back in 2009 in "only" 40-50 knots of wind and presumably in very choppy water:

www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=37801&uid=47

I don't see why he can't be in the same ballpark as Sailrocket with more wind, smaller kite and flatter water?



I might be inclined to agree if the record was still 59 knots. But 65 is a different ballgame.

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.

Lets see what the Kiters do at Luderitz in the next few weeks.

Of course, if one was able to attach an L shaped foil under a kite board to pull at right angles to the lift of the kite, that could make the game on again. But there are at least a couple of large problems to solve with that:

- The direction of pull with a kite is variable
- The sailor will have to somehow control the angle of foil the underwater, and therefore it's depth, with his feet to a very fine degree.

If an auto angle of attack control mechanism could be added for the underwater foil, it could solve those problems.

But these ideas are not currently working technology. As I said before, it will take some time to develop whatever is dreamed up to a practical, controllable record breaking level.




oh and you forgot to mention that with a foil, Kiters won't be able to benefit from ground effect.



And what would/will sailrocket be able to do if it had more wind and flatter water

DaGodfather
SA, 280 posts
27 Nov 2012 6:48PM
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sailquik said...

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.




At Luderitz - yes. The canal looks very choppy and unless they make some modifications to it they won't even be able to break the current kitesurfing records this year.

But there are other locations where this is not the case. In fact we have one such well known location right here in SA. The problem is, this is not a high wind location and even 40+ knots winds only happen 2-3 times a year. But unlike Luderitz, the water stays flat, regardless of how hard it blows and regardless of wind direction, so going broad makes no difference.

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
27 Nov 2012 7:24PM
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DaGodfather said...
sailquik said...

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.




At Luderitz - yes. The canal looks very choppy and unless they make some modifications to it they won't even be able to break the current kitesurfing records this year.

But there are other locations where this is not the case. In fact we have one such well known location right here in SA. The problem is, this is not a high wind location and even 40+ knots winds only happen 2-3 times a year. But unlike Luderitz, the water stays flat, regardless of how hard it blows and regardless of wind direction, so going broad makes no difference.



Yeah, I recon they need to put artificial 'weed' in the canal. It would make a huge difference for the kites.
Still not convinced it would make 65 knots of difference, but................ maybe.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
27 Nov 2012 5:05PM
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sailquik said...


Yeah, I recon they need to put artificial 'weed' in the canal. I


Would that be within the rules? Gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere. ( but not with a 16 cm fin I hope).

What about filling the canal with ethanol? Was using ethanol to preserve wood samples, you can pour a 20 litre drum of the stuff through a funnel much quicker than you can water.




Water @ 25 C density = 0.997, viscoscity = 0.894 Pa s

Ethanol @25 C density = 0.785, viscoscity = 1.074 Pa s

Not sure if that would give greater or less speed, but would it be allowed?



TornadoALIVE
NSW, 45 posts
27 Nov 2012 10:13PM
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Looks like 70 knots is on their hit list.

forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/140038-vestas-sailrocket/

Hey all, We are working as quick as our small team can to share this with you via video and the like. It's a constant job just to make my e-mail list go down rather than up. It's a bloody big job to make these videos. The new cameras generate such massive files and the pro cameras Ben is shooting on still use tape so all the footage has to be digitised and stored for editing. All this means we have 3 1 terabyte hard drives feeding into one smoking Mac laptop. Ben is a pro at this and is working 24 hours a day on it. Whilst his computer is crunching footage... he's outside setting up interviews and sharing imagery with media. I'm so glad we focused on bringing someone of his capabilities down here.
I've decided that I'm done for this session. It's Helenas turn... but the forecast looks dead flat from here on in. It might change. We will be on a plane in 8 days. I'm not even sure if we should ship the boat back or not. I'm sure this boat can see the other side of 70. The only reason she stopped going quicker was because the leeward side of the boat was flying too high. The way we resolve that is to stand the rig up some more. This gives both power and stability. It's all good. In theory we should be maxxing out the foil... but it's how it behaves when it starts reaching its limits that is interesting. The boat and the concept it is based on has so much power to drag stuff down the course that it's alarming. That was the design goal of this boat..."let's not simply focus on the foil... let's build the platform that will give ANY FOIL the best possible chance of hitting its limits... then we will worry about the foil". I think we have seen this power played out by the fact that the boat has dragged every 'shape' and size we have put on it down the course at over 52 knots. To go faster we can add more power i.e. sail in more wind OR reduce drag... or both. There are other foil concepts that are worth exploring. We chose this one as we considered it to be the safe option.
I'm so happy with how the team performed last saturday. We took on the big day with a view to winning... not just competing. Mother nature delivered us one hour of perfection for this whole 28 day record attempt. The other days were good... but for 1 hour it was strong and rock steady... 28,29,29,29,29,28,29,27,27,29.... Helena was just reading out the same numbers over the VHF. Industrial Walvis Bay wind. It has been mentioned that we had one from being the hunter to the hunted... I sort of played along... but a little deeper down I knew we still had a job to be finished. When we knocked Rob off the top spot we had topped their leader... now we were coming back to wipe the village out. We did three runs that day. The first two didn't quite go right. We topped over 61 knots on the first two but just didn't get the average. We wanted to finish it once and for all and by the third run we were hungry to tear it apart. It started badly but we recovered and got onto the course. I was checking for damage as we accelerated through 60 knots but the speed was epic so I knew I had to keep the hammers down. This was it.
Anyway, it's time to write the blog properly so I'll finish it there. If we had have missed that hour and not got started... that would have been it. 59.38 would be the mark. I believe that the kiters can beat this. I don't think they will get near 65.45 with what they have now. If any of the kiters can actually pull off a 60 knot run it will be super impressive and we won't feel so untouchable. The thing is that we are not at our limits. This boat will see the other side of 70 oneday. It nearly did the other day. It's awake now and it's still hunting. You have to consider that at some early stage of the design process we had the discussion "What limits are we designing for"? We set a speed as the Vne for the craft but even that has safety margins. The answer to that question is the big one. that's our secret.
The concept still doesn't even have a name. Bernard Smith used to call them Aero-Hydrofoils but I personally don't feel that quite explains it. Homage must be paid to that wonderful guy some way or another.
Right, so the video is coming. Some of the angles we have captured are fantastic. I can't wait to see it myself.
I called our local Champagne dealer yesterday morning... She answered with "F**k off" and hung up. That's a sign that things are going well

hardie
WA, 4081 posts
27 Nov 2012 7:21PM
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At these speeds, people are going to start risking their lives to push the limit, men have died b4 in the quest for speed supremacy, hope I'm very very wrong in this, coz I know the urge to be the fastest, will mean pushing the limits, and blocking out potential consequences. No speed records would ever be broken if people didnt push the limits and abandon the thoughts of consequences.

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
28 Nov 2012 12:57AM
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Ian K said...
sailquik said...


Yeah, I recon they need to put artificial 'weed' in the canal. I


Would that be within the rules? Gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere. ( but not with a 16 cm fin I hope).

What about filling the canal with ethanol? Was using ethanol to preserve wood samples, you can pour a 20 litre drum of the stuff through a funnel much quicker than you can water.




Water @ 25 C density = 0.997, viscoscity = 0.894 Pa s

Ethanol @25 C density = 0.785, viscoscity = 1.074 Pa s

Not sure if that would give greater or less speed, but would it be allowed?




Who knows if the WSSRC would accept artificial weed. They don't seem to be able to communicate the depth limits issue.

You could have movable mats of 'weed' that kill the chop. As the sail craft passes the mats would be lowered to the minimum depth and then raised again immediately.

I am pretty confident the WGPSSRC would accept 'weed'.

Ethanol? Well then it wouldn't be a 'water' speed record would it?

Oil on the water? It could very well work to calm the water, but would it also slow the craft?

Hey, does the weed in Lake George excrete some sort of oily substance?

MRT
WA, 39 posts
27 Nov 2012 11:23PM
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boardboy said...
well the outright record may be out of reach for now - but who nows what technology some smart cookie will come up with to put us back in the game!

In the meantime you may like to take solace in the fact that though Sailrocket II may be faster, it can't sail back.


which record breaking windsurfer or kiteboard could also sail on both tacks?

DaGodfather
SA, 280 posts
28 Nov 2012 10:49AM
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sailquik said...

Yeah, I recon they need to put artificial 'weed' in the canal. It would make a huge difference for the kites.


Exactly!

I don't think WSSRC would have any issues under the current rules.
Ethanol and oil are out though, there is already a rule banning sacrificial substances.

Would it be sufficient to break 65kts? Only if the second condition is also met - 50-60+ knot wind. Apparently Luderitz is capable of generating them from time to time.

Will 65knots still be the record by the time the Sailrocket team are finished? I'd say they still have a few knots to go - there is nothing stopping them going out in 30+ knot wind and pushing it up even higher - 70 knots? - who knows. But they don't seem to be at their limit yet.

jp747
1553 posts
28 Nov 2012 9:11AM
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I seem to have read in amazement hydro theories but never got to see anyone reply about fin or skeg cavitation as mentioned in the past when the speedsters were barely over 40kts. and now that it's nearing 70 is there any bearing to this and wow am stuck at 28 for the 500

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
28 Nov 2012 3:07PM
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The question of foil cavitation is fascinating in the light of Sailrocket2's record. I had assumed they were running some sort of super-cavitating foil, but the words written by Paul seem to suggest that they are using a conventional foil. He talks about the question of where it's cavitation limit is.
So if they are using a conventional foil, how is it that it has not encountered cavitation yet?
And if it has, how is it that SR2 can still go faster in control?

sick_em_rex
NSW, 1600 posts
28 Nov 2012 3:45PM
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That's exactly what I was saying to someone on the weekend Daffy. I remember speaking to you and Matt about it last year and this piqued my interest once I read the same info you did. Will be really interesting to see how they have got around it or if in fact the cavitation just isn't as much of a problem as it might have been!

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
28 Nov 2012 1:23PM
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sailquik said...
The question of foil cavitation is fascinating


Not only that! I just wonder how much lift the wing and the counteracting foil are generating. Without gravity in the equation it's hard to deduce.

From the SR website
"
The back of the boat will lift onto the curve of the foil at around 25 knots. The leeward float will begin to fly clear of the water over 50 knots. Only the main foil, the rudder and the 'step' of the forward float will be in the water at high speed."

Now as the step of the forward float is so far a head of the C of G it can't be used to generate much lift. The craft weighs 275 kg plus ~ 80 kg for the skipper - there's got to be 355 kg of vertical lift somewhere.





The lower part of the L foil must counteract the horizontal component of sail lift - so with that angle of attack there can be no vertical lift there.

The upper part of the L foil maybe could provide vertical lift, but there's hardly any of it in the water! If vertical lift is provided by the angle between the line of action between the wing and the foil, like a slack rope walker - then there'd be an angle. But they're inline, no discernible angle.

If the vertical lift is provided between the opposing foils like the string beneath a tight rope walker - then there's an awful lot of tension involved!

They state that the leeward stubby horizontal wing contributes lift, but it's way off the C of G.

Which leaves the big question. How much tension is there between the wing in the air and that foil below surface, which, by rights, should be cavitating??



barn
WA, 2960 posts
28 Nov 2012 1:40PM
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sailquik said...
The question of foil cavitation is fascinating in the light of Sailrocket2's record. I had assumed they were running some sort of super-cavitating foil, but the words written by Paul seem to suggest that they are using a conventional foil. He talks about the question of where it's cavitation limit is.
So if they are using a conventional foil, how is it that it has not encountered cavitation yet?
And if it has, how is it that SR2 can still go faster in control?


Does that mean all the banter regarding cavitation for windsurfing fins at 50knots will stop? It was all the rage down at SP a few years ago.







AndyHansen
WA, 278 posts
28 Nov 2012 2:22PM
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sailquik said...


Yes, but the requirement for weight is minimised because kiters go at a very downwind angle and really only need flat water and high wind to go fast. I'm of the opinion that these records can be broken using current equipment, but 60+ knot wind plus flat water is needed with a small kite. And big set of balls.

Edit:
Seb Cattelan already did almost 60kts 100m average all the way back in 2009 in "only" 40-50 knots of wind and presumably in very choppy water:

www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=user&val=37801&uid=47

I don't see why he can't be in the same ballpark as Sailrocket with more wind, smaller kite and flatter water?



I might be inclined to agree if the record was still 59 knots. But 65 is a different ballgame.

The disadvantage for kites is that very broad course and flat water in winds over 50 knots are mutually exclusive.

Lets see what the Kiters do at Luderitz in the next few weeks.

Of course, if one was able to attach an L shaped foil under a kite board to pull at right angles to the lift of the kite, that could make the game on again. But there are at least a couple of large problems to solve with that:

- The direction of pull with a kite is variable
- The sailor will have to somehow control the angle of foil the underwater, and therefore it's depth, with his feet to a very fine degree.

If an auto angle of attack control mechanism could be added for the underwater foil, it could solve those problems.

But these ideas are not currently working technology. As I said before, it will take some time to develop whatever is dreamed up to a practical, controllable record breaking level.




The angle adjustment is already in play for the Moth sailboats

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
28 Nov 2012 5:27PM
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Ian K said...

"The back of the boat will lift onto the curve of the foil at around 25 knots. The leeward float will begin to fly clear of the water over 50 knots. Only the main foil, the rudder and the 'step' of the forward float will be in the water at high speed."



They really are "flying on the fin" or is that "off the fin"?

From the videos:
- only fin & rudder constantly in/on water, great fantastic trim & balance they have been working on/achieved. At speed, pods seem to provide occasional balance
- huge spray plume from L fin
- the fence on the fin that they talk about as the final piece that gave them stability at speed is small & is on the upper outside of the L curve

- total respect for engineering brilliance, innovation, perseverance, attitude ..... & the records.


TornadoALIVE
NSW, 45 posts
28 Nov 2012 7:36PM
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Sail Rocket hit a cealing at 52 knots with their old boat / foils due to cavitation. Sail Rocket 2's foil was designed to cavitate from 65 knots. Looks like it may be a little higher in practice. They mentioned in one of their blogs that the foil received dome pitting from cavitation at the top end of the run.

TornadoALIVE
NSW, 45 posts
28 Nov 2012 7:48PM
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http://clarksail.com/2012/11/25/the-word-from-paul-larsen-after-sailrockets-big-day/

ClarkSail: Wow, talk about gratifying. So can you tell us about the fence? The way we understand it that was what made all the difference.

Paul Larsen: I'm not sure how much of the foil we should reveal at this point. A lot of it is out there I guess but the key parts are hard to understand unless they are explained. The fence is pretty straight forward really. It was our first shot at a fence on this foil and it obviously worked very well. It transformed the boat. It's a bloody big thing too. It probably doesn't need to be that big.



ClarkSail: Why get off a winner right? So the way we understand it the fence is key in preventing ventilation. Do we have that correct?

Paul Larsen: Well actually the foil isn't so much designed to work with cavitations as delay it until a much higher speed. Before we put the fence on the foil was cavitating at a much lower speed because a good chunk of it was ventilating. This caused the non ventilated spot part of the foil to do all the work and hence it started hitting suction peaks at lower speed and thus began to cavitate.

At least that is the theory we backed and it seemed to work. I would like to re-visit it once all this madness has slowed down though. Too often we try to tie these things up a bit too easily. There is often more to it than that.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
28 Nov 2012 6:08PM
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Worth going to

newatlas.com/new-world-speed-sailing-record-6537kts-75mph-121kmh/25065/

for 139 great speed sailing photographs like these.







sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
28 Nov 2012 9:32PM
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AndyHansen said...

The angle adjustment is already in play for the Moth sailboats

http://www.sailmagazine.com/learning-fly-0



Of course. That is exactly what I was thinking of. Another outstanding example is The Tri-Foiler (Longshot/Hobie).

BUT, how to apply such a thing to some sort of kiteboard?

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
28 Nov 2012 10:20PM
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More great insight from Paul Larsen here:

http://clarksail.com/2012/11/27/the-real-reason-why-sailrocket-is-special/

sailquik
VIC, 6089 posts
28 Nov 2012 11:10PM
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It seems that somehow, the Sailrocket team has found a way to delay cavitation to a much higher speed than what some of the theories have predicted in the past.

Please allow me to ramble a bit. Just thinking out loud really. I could be way off.

I can speculate as to what they might have done. In theory, to delay cavitation you have to reduce the peak load on the foil so that the low pressure side does not get vaporization (boiling). I can also speculate about some ways on how to do this.
-Use a larger foil to reduce the lift per unit area. (but increases drag)
-Use a longer chord, lower aspect. (but reduces lift to drag ratio)
-Design the foil section to have a more even lift spread over the whole section, rather than concentrated on one part. (I am sure there could be any number of negative effects of this but I don't know enough to comment further)
-reduce the angle of attack and total load on the fin (Windsurfers may do this to some extent by sailing broader, but SR2 is sailing quite a tight angle in comparison)

I am sure there are others and someone will add to this list.

Note that all these directions have been tried in windsurfer speed fins and are currently evident to some degree on the fins used by the fastest windsurfers.

The problem as I see it, is that much of this is theory. The computer programs that designers use to predict cavitation of different foils are not absolute. They are based on best knowledge, but that is not absolute. There seems to be a large number of variables that the programs can not always accurately predict. Its the old computer truism again: The data out is only as good as the data in.

The fascinating thing about Sailrocket is that it seems to have added a significant new chapter to the book. I can't wait to read that book.

On the other hand, when Hydropter did it's thing and amazed us all a couple of years ago, we had a similar conversation. Mal Wrights take on it was that, perhaps there was significant cavitation happening, but that Hydropter could develop so much power it could overcome the extra drag and still go faster. Perhaps this is part of the equation with SR2 as well?



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Game Over 65 knot 500m" started by Roo