Crazyjockey- I have a 2008 6.6 Koyote (which I have used heaps)that I have only ever rigged on a 430 RDM (Ezzy brand) and it works really well.
In fact I first rigged the sail on my old 430 SDM (Tushingham brand mast) and it didn't seem to rig well at all. So I tried it with the RDM and it rigged up perfectly. It certainly doesn't flatten out the sail or have any effect on the speed, as sailquik said much of the shape in this sail is determined by the seam shaping.
I also think it feels lighter and much more dynamic on the RDM and would recommend (my preference anyway) the RDM's for the 6.6m size and down of the Koyotes.
Not just cos x brand is crap
I think this topic has nearly reached it's expiry date!
Hey lordhowe, have you been tuning in to the 'relevant' replies to your original post re masts for KA sails? (haven't heard from you for a while)
gazman, yep have taken the relevant points. The sail sounds like a good one, I'm still just a little reticent about mast compatability. I thought the 5.3 Koyote required a 400, but you say you're setting it on an X6 430, so not only is it on a different mast but also different IMCS. 21 instead of 19. If it's working I suppose it is a great advertisement for the sail, that it is still performing when set with these different bits. As for Arnold's comments, they haven't helped a lot.....
Crazyjockey, I run my 08 5.3 on a Powerex 425 RDM ( chopped 50mm off the tip a few years ago to fit a Severne Blade)
The sail sets and performs just fine on the 430, maybe a bees d..k flat in the bottom caused by the Powerex bend curve. I can,t notice any difference though and it is a favorite sail, love it.
One thing to note is that the 08 sail had an adjustable head and would rig on a 430. The 09 Spec on the website has the 5.3 with a fixed head. If this is correct it won't rig on a 430 so I need to confirm with Andrew. I suspect the website is wrong, but just hold off until I can confirm 100%
Also note there is no Koyote 5.0, 5.3 is the smallest.
Seeya Martin
Cool thanks for that Martin.
I think I was looking at the Koncept page when I made the comment about the 5.0.
I'll wait to hear about the adjustable head before I make up my mind.
Thanks for the offer to post the photos GazMan, but I won't trouble you. Could you tell me though, when you are rigging your 5.3 on the 430 how much extension do you need on the bottom, and how much do you adjust the head on the top?
There is "za gut news und za bad news" re the 09 Koyote 5.3
The good news is that an adjustable head is not a problem as the first shipment of 5.3's is sold out and more need to be built. So a 430 mast will not be an issue.
The bad news is the first shipment of 09 5.3's is sold out and more need to be built. Need to confirm timing .
Thanks Martin
Hey Martin (aka mr love),
do you know if the boom cut-out on the 09 Koyotes has been modified?
I also have the Boards mag article, or similar, that led me to a
North Gold SDM 460
for a
7.2 08 Koyote.
Again the "upper end of constant curve". Sail fits a lot better then the NP X3 460.
I have a question though. On my older KA Kult, ~2003, the outhaul can be adjusted by the batten's position on the mast. The batten just above the boom.
How do you rig your Koyotes?
I've found minimum outhaul seems to be quite similar to old Kult, the batten above the boom about half way across the mast. Max is... whatever is required really, pretty hard to completely flatten out/haven't experimented too much with max outhaul.
For downhaul I look at the tension crease between the 2nd and 3rd batten. Between 1/4 and 3/4 of way across sail.
I just thought I'd share some photos of my KA sails (Koncepts) rigged on some Neil Pryde-like masts. I say 'like' as the 460 is an Art Speed stick that rigs the same as a NP mast, and the 490 is a Power Z-axis, which also appears to work just like a pryde mast.
As you can see, the leech is way too loose. The 8.5m and the 7.5m both show way too much looseness in the leech when down-hauled to spec.
Oh well, time to buy a KA mast or two. I knew I wanted to spend more money
I have mostly Neil Pryde sails, yet I don't use any NP masts. I use a Tushingham 430, the ART speedstick 460, and the Powerex Z-Axis 490, and they all seem to be very similar to the pryde bend curve. It was only when I tried these on the KA sails that you realize how different they are.
It was time for a mast replacement anyway because <insert justification here>. 
i'm not sure all is right here formula nova.
i agree that the sail looks too loose,
the masts i have had some experience with and my understanding is that the art masts are rebadged powerex masts. (can't say for sure that all art masts are rebadged powerex mast though).
either NP is becoming more constant curve or it's inconsistencies in the NP masts.
"As you can see, the leech is way too loose. The 8.5m and the 7.5m both show way too much looseness in the leech when down-hauled to spec."
Before getting the new masts, I would suggest rigging (and testing) the sails with reduced downhaul compared to spec. Quiet often you can find that the spec provided is the max/min limits of the tunning, and mostly used to advise the consumer about what length extension/boom is required. I think I remember useing the 07 koncept with a lot less downhaul then the spec suggested.
If the sails feel crap when downhauled such that they look correctly rigged, then it is probably time to get the reccomended mast.
Formula Nova , do as Tim 90 says and let off some downhaul. The specs are recomended max settings and the particular brand of mast and mast base will have an impact on the measurement. It looks over downhauled.
It also appears you have a lot of outhaul pulled on in these photo,s. Having the outhaul tight will tighten up the leech in the panel above the boom.
Can you rig it with less downhaul and outhaul (sail almost touching the boom) and take some more photo's?
What size sail is it?
I noticed a yellow Koncept as well. How is that rigging and on what mast ?
Thanks Martin
If thats the case then it seems that it is unfortunately a problem with mast compatability. The Powerex Z axis does surprise me as I have run my 7.5 on a Powerex Z Speed ( until it broke) and it was just fine.
Don't get too hung up about rigging to the exact spec, rig it so it looks and feels right and record the settings. It does vary alot depending what mast and mast base you use.
I will see if I can grab an 8.5 off Andrew and rig it on a Powerex Z Speed 490 that I have and see how it looks.
Regards Martin
I rig my 08 9m on a Z-Speed 520 and it is perfect. I tend to think it is just overdownhauled
Hi Dale,
I have just been out in the backyard rigging my new 7.5 Koncept to get some accurate reference numbers and pics.
The mast is 460 SDM IMCS25 CC
The mast length printed on the sail is the nominal total length to the bottom of the mast base. The actual downhaul setting is quite a bit shorter than this. I prefer to give the downhaul settings by measuring from the bottom of the mast to the bottom of the sail downhaul pulley when rigged. When I do this on my mast the figure is 478cm (EDIT: correct figure is 481) as you can see in the pictures below. This would be my starting setting but I would not go much more than about a cm either way.
The boom length is the max length and typically the set length will be a few cm's shorter. For the sail rigged in the pics it is 205cm measured as shown. This would be my starting position for medium winds and would vary a couple of cm either way depending on the conditions I am tuning for.
Try setting you sail to these specs on the mast you have and see what it looks like.
Cheers, Andrew D
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Hmmm. Something really strange happened. I went and rigged that sail again to get some other pictures and this time it needed more downhaul to get the same set. I suspect the first time I didn't have the mast completely in the top of the sail. They are a bit tight at the head when brand new and sometimes hang up a bit. Anyhow, the second time it needed 481 cm to get the same set and I am now sure this is the correct measurement and I have edited the pictures above to show this.
Formula Nova , I raced around to AMAC's today and grabbed an 09 Koncept 8.5 straight out of the box. Rigged it on my (what I thought was) Powerex Z Speed 490 which turned out to be an ART Speedstick 490. Exactly the same mast.
It rigged perfectly, settings as per rigging guide, 510 luff ( chinook base on 20),220 boom.
Here,s some shots
Regards Martin
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