Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Lüderitz Speed Challenge

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Created by seanhogan > 9 months ago, 1 Nov 2012
izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
17 Nov 2012 11:18PM
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PD- 50.49

sailquik
VIC, 6090 posts
17 Nov 2012 11:38PM
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Where are you getting these updates Izaak?

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
17 Nov 2012 10:46PM
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AA just smashed it with 51+kn run

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
17 Nov 2012 11:46PM
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Lüderitz Speed Challenge facebook page..... A2 now 51.34, AB 50.88!!!!

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
17 Nov 2012 11:48PM
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Jezz it would be nice to have a live video feed streaming like the PWA. They may need to do it next year.

choco
SA, 4032 posts
17 Nov 2012 11:34PM
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pfff 50 knts is the new 40 now

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:13AM
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Agreed choco. Anders now on par with A2 both on 51.34!!! Lenna 45+ too! CB now over 50 as well!

Spotty
VIC, 1619 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:22AM
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izaak said...
Anders now on par with A2 both on 51.34!!! Lenna 45+ too!


Incredible speeds, and a real battle going on, Patrik and Cedric now into the Five-O fold, how many others will follow????? .....the Dunk?

sailquik
VIC, 6090 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:25AM
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izaak said...
Anders now on par with A2 both on 51.34!!! Lenna 45+ too!



OK,is it just me, or does that sound a bit suss? This is the second time today that two people have come up with the same speed to a hundredth of a knot!
Once, maybe.......
twice? hmmmmm?.............

When we investigated using video cameras for speed timing a few years ago, one of the issues was frame rate. PAL = 25 frames a second which means you can have higher resolution than 1/25th of a second or 0.04 seconds.

Anything in between is just an estimate.

I figured they would be using at least 50 FPS if not 100 FPS.

Anyone seen any info on this?

Who is good at Math? what is the speed difference over 500m for 0.02 of a second?

sailquik
VIC, 6090 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:28AM
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Spotty said...
izaak said...
Anders now on par with A2 both on 51.34!!! Lenna 45+ too!


Incredible speeds, and a real battle going on, Patrik and Cedric now into the Five-O fold, how many others will follow????? .....the Dunk?




I'd have a few bob on Martin VM to join that club.........

sailquik
VIC, 6090 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:35AM
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Can I a get a few quid on Jurjen van der Noord for the 50 as well?

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:40AM
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Read somewhere dunky is arriving on the 20th. A2 may have just lifted the bar again!!

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:43AM
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Reports of people saying A2 is up to 51.75.

hardie
WA, 4082 posts
17 Nov 2012 9:47PM
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izaak said...
Reports of people saying A2 is up to 51.75.


Izaac r you on the fone to Antonie? HTF r u gettin all this info??

izaak
TAS, 1973 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:53AM
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Haha I'm studing Facebook quite hard. Looking through comments and a few other Facebook pages I have liked. Past my bed time now though..

Spotty
VIC, 1619 posts
18 Nov 2012 12:56AM
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hardie said...
izaak said...
Reports of people saying A2 is up to 51.75.


Izaac r you on the fone to Antonie? HTF r u gettin all this info??


51.75, Hardie maybe Izaac is a "Indigo child"

dBA
15 posts
17 Nov 2012 9:59PM
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hardie said...
OK,is it just me, or does that sound a bit suss? This is the second time today that two people have come up with the same speed to a hundredth of a knot!
Once, maybe.......
twice? hmmmmm?.............

When we investigated using video cameras for speed timing a few years ago, one of the issues was frame rate. PAL = 25 frames a second which means you can have higher resolution than 1/25th of a second or 0.04 seconds.

Anything in between is just an estimate.

I figured they would be using at least 50 FPS if not 100 FPS.

Anyone seen any info on this?

Who is good at Math? what is the speed difference over 500m for 0.02 of a second?

Hmm interesting! You might be on to something. Did some maths:

Antoine's 51.34 @ 500m means he was travelling at 26.41 m/s, which means it took 18.93 sec from start to finish.

The next possible speed is where he is one PAL frame faster which, assuming PAL @ 25HZ would be at 18.89 sec over 500m. That translates to a speed of 51.45 knots!

One frame at 25 Hz PAL videotiming (0.04s) translates to a difference of 0.11 knots at these speeds!? Holy cow.

hardie
WA, 4082 posts
17 Nov 2012 10:12PM
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AA 51.69

redsurfbus
304 posts
18 Nov 2012 4:04AM
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Results from today www.redsurfbus.com/2012/11/luderitz-faster-and-more-furious.html

choco
SA, 4032 posts
18 Nov 2012 9:14AM
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Love to see someone now plug in the original windsurfer one design board to crack 40 on it would be great recognition for the board that started it all.
A2s 2 sec was 53.42 average 52.05 500m 51.88 thought he would have gone faster
gee the run looks sweet as

AUS4
NSW, 1254 posts
18 Nov 2012 9:45AM
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Looks like those new red NP EVO 5s are getting more orange every day.

Spotty
VIC, 1619 posts
18 Nov 2012 11:52AM
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choco said...
Love to see someone now plug in the original windsurfer one design board to crack 40 on it would be great recognition for the board that started it all.
A2s 2 sec was 53.42 average 52.05 500m 51.88 thought he would have gone faster
gee the run looks sweet as


Choco I'm sure Jim Drake would be proud coming from a background of speed, but I think the triangular sail would hold us back.

Incredible speeds by all, a smashing effort!


nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
18 Nov 2012 10:11AM
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dBA said...

One frame at 25 Hz PAL videotiming (0.04s) translates to a difference of 0.11 knots at these speeds!? Holy cow.


With a username like yours I'll take those numbers as gospel

So with a resolution of 0.11 knots, shouldn't they be only giving one decimal place to the results?

Someone needs to send those Dutch guys from GPS-SS over there.

shear tip
NSW, 1125 posts
18 Nov 2012 7:46PM
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It depends if they're recording interlaced or progressive. If they're recording on fields, they will be getting 50 fields per second and doubling their accuracy.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
18 Nov 2012 6:53PM
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But surely they can use a bit of interpolation to get better than 0.04 of a second? At 50 knots they'll go a metre in a 25th of a second. If the video has a sailor about .4 of a metre before the start line at say 9.0 sec and about 0.6 of a metre past the start line in the next frame at 9.04 seconds, wouldn't you say he crossed at 9+ 0.4*0.04 = 9.016 seconds? I'd reckon by carefully examining each frame they should be able to estimate position to a tenth of a metre and get 0.004sec resolution or 0.011 knots.

dBA
15 posts
18 Nov 2012 7:03PM
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I learned yetsterday they're using software created by Manfred Fuchs, which is approved by the WSSRC. This software uses the last image before the starting line and the next image after the starting line. Markers are set on the front of the mast base in the images and on the starting line itself and the software interpolates the positions of the mast base to know exactly when the rider passed the line. This can be done since you know the interval between two images and that the speed of the rider will not vary by too much between the images, which I think they'll have figured a worst case scenario out for.

Do the same again for the finish line and you can pretty accurately calculate the time it took from start to finish.

The only factors that would influence this are the viewing angle of the lenses used, the distance to the rider and the horizontal resolution, but I'm sure they can find a worst case scenario there and subtract it from the result just to be sure. That would still make a 25Hz PAL system pretty darn accurate.

sailquik
VIC, 6090 posts
18 Nov 2012 10:26PM
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Thanks dBA. That's very good to know. If Manfred had a hand in it I have full confidence that it will be very well thought out and very accurate.

It is my understanding WSSRC required accuracy to at least 10cm for the Trimble GPS system that MI used, so that explanation makes perfect sense.

Except....isn't the course supposed to be 501 meters?[}:)]

From the few tracks I have seen so far where we can compare 2 x GT31 GPS and fixed gates, the difference seems smaller than I had expected. It certainly reinforces that The WGPSSRC method of error correction we use at the moment is quite conservative.

jp747
1553 posts
18 Nov 2012 7:37PM
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choco said...
Love to see someone now plug in the original windsurfer one design board to crack 40 on it would be great recognition for the board that started it all.
A2s 2 sec was 53.42 average 52.05 500m 51.88 thought he would have gone faster
gee the run looks sweet as




does the start of the 500mtr. mark start at the blue flag (bottom of pic) where it becomes more broad anyone??

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
18 Nov 2012 9:39PM
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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Lüderitz Speed Challenge" started by seanhogan