Forums > Windsurfing   New South Wales

For Windsurfing Parents

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Created by KA360 > 9 months ago, 20 Dec 2012
KA360
NSW, 803 posts
21 Dec 2012 1:04AM
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We have been thinking that it would be really cool to have a Windsurfing Weekend (maybe long weekend) for windsurfers who are interested in teaching their own kids to windsurf.

Kids love to see other kids windsurfing and that really helps to motivate them to give it a go and persist with it once they've started.

We would love to see something like this annually at least (or more if it works out well). It could be held in different locations if that's what everyone wants.

We have just moved to the coast and our house is full of termite damage so we probably can't do anything spectacular this summer but it would be good to get an idea if anyone else is interested so we can start working on it for next summer.

Of course if anyone wanted to get together with no pre planning this summer, it might kick start the process. We reckon Sanctuary Point on the NSW south coast is one of the best spots for teaching your kids.

I thought that the whole family could come, arrange their own accommodation and bring their own gear to teach their kids with if they have it (otherwise, we could try to share). There would need to be at least one parent who windsurfs to teach their kids. We would exchange ideas and tips, maybe help each other and the kids could make some new "appropriate" (that is from a windsurfing family) friends.

In time, we could try to approach shops for demo gear, arrange a BBQ/party for one night, organise races and friendly competitions and maybe even put in for instructors to take them to a new level once there are enough doing the basics (eg teaching them freestyle tricks or how to race slalom).

So, any takers?

byronmc
NSW, 503 posts
21 Dec 2012 2:29AM
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Yes interested

eckas
NSW, 323 posts
21 Dec 2012 7:53AM
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Count me in too. It would be great to see the tricks and techniques of other parents that have successfully guided their kids into the sport.

AJEaster
NSW, 696 posts
21 Dec 2012 10:54AM
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This is a great idea.

When is a good age to start the windsurfing lessons? My boy is way too young at present but I am interested to hear from those who have kids that sail as to when they started sailing.

Merry christmas

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
21 Dec 2012 12:33PM
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AJEaster said...
This is a great idea.

When is a good age to start the windsurfing lessons? My boy is way too young at present but I am interested to hear from those who have kids that sail as to when they started sailing.

Merry christmas


We started our son at 7 and our daughter at 5 but they were already primed with a lot of teaching off the water. We had a rig in the backyard and started teaching them the terminology from about 3 years old.

Some kids have started to learn even before they could swim but the location had knee deep water (Bonaire).

I think it is really important that the child should know how to swim first and ideally more than in just a swimming pool. They should be exposed to water in the ocean, lake or a river and preferably with some chop.

The best age to start will vary a bit depending on the child's maturity, personality and build (they need to be able to reach the boom). There are very light rigs available now for small children starting under 1 metre.

Ideally we should aim to have them planning and in the footstraps and harness before they are teenagers and as quickly as possible from when they start - I really think that we'll lose them to more exciting sports if we only aim to have them slogging around on old/big gear for years. Yes, they will have tried windsurfing but they won't stay with it and become highly skilled shortboarders and able to sail with you.

In summary, it would be good to start around 8 with intensive short board training. Some exposure earlier slogging around from 5-8 would be brilliant but this can be caught up quickly whenever they start. If your boy is over 3 concentrate on his swimming and start exposing him to the beach and all things windsurfing. Take him with you so he can see you windsurfing, get him his own little rig if possible and let him play with it and look at it. Start teaching him the parts of the board and rig so that when he gets on the water and you give him instructions he will understand what you're talking about. You can also teach him the actions off the water eg what to do when you say "mast forward" or "mast back" or "move your front hand back on the boom", practise "sheet in" or "sheet out" and how to uphaul and reach over and across. One of the things that put beginners off is the teacher shouting instructions to them on the water and you can reduce the need if the child automatically does what you say and has developed a bit of muscle memory before going on the water with all it's issues (like balancing). Also if you get them standing on any kind of board and jumping off it into the water and playing games on it, it will help to get their confidence up.

FiremanSam
VIC, 148 posts
21 Dec 2012 1:35PM
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Fun, Fun, Fun and did I mention - make it Fun ?

I've done a bit of instructing on other sports and with kids you need to make it fun and they will come !

With my two boys, who are now aged 12 & 14, I didn't even ask them if they wanted to start windsurfing. They saw how much fun I was having and they just naturally wanted to be on the water too.

We enrolled them in the Summer School run by WV, but in the meantime they learnt pretty much all they needed from our own local instructors !

Within 12 months - plenty of TOW !! The eldest and I have our own running bet about who is fastest on GPSTC and the youngest isn't far behind at 2sec PB 18kns already !

My favourite recollections of spending time on water include my kids standing alongside me commenting on how gnarly the conditions are - especially if its a SW with Low Tide !!

beatlloydy
NSW, 133 posts
21 Dec 2012 1:36PM
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That sounds great...I would def be interested.

I bought a kids rig and board but so far have not had a lot of success...My 7 YO is not keen on muddy water (Lake Illawarra) or scary, sharky places (Botany Bay) but ironically will paddle out the back surfing at any beach break I take her to.

On the 2 occasions I have tried the conditions have been a little too strong for her to handle...tho I like your idea of "on land" training.

I am not trying to push it cos I know that will be the total end...so Sanctuary Point sounds like a great idea.

I'll be definitely interested in a group....was trying to get something similar in Sydney but everyone (including me) is so busy at this time of year.

jamesf
NSW, 992 posts
21 Dec 2012 1:53PM
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Great idea akim. My 5 year old is already hooked I think! Just needs a bit more height and he should be right to go. He would love the idea of a weekend sailing with other kids, he was awestruck watching Alex sail down at jervis.



AJEaster
NSW, 696 posts
21 Dec 2012 4:48PM
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KA360 said...
AJEaster said...
This is a great idea.

When is a good age to start the windsurfing lessons? My boy is way too young at present but I am interested to hear from those who have kids that sail as to when they started sailing.

Merry christmas


We started our son at 7 and our daughter at 5 but they were already primed with a lot of teaching off the water. We had a rig in the backyard and started teaching them the terminology from about 3 years old.

Some kids have started to learn even before they could swim but the location had knee deep water (Bonaire).

I think it is really important that the child should know how to swim first and ideally more than in just a swimming pool. They should be exposed to water in the ocean, lake or a river and preferably with some chop.

The best age to start will vary a bit depending on the child's maturity, personality and build (they need to be able to reach the boom). There are very light rigs available now for small children starting under 1 metre.

Ideally we should aim to have them planning and in the footstraps and harness before they are teenagers and as quickly as possible from when they start - I really think that we'll lose them to more exciting sports if we only aim to have them slogging around on old/big gear for years. Yes, they will have tried windsurfing but they won't stay with it and become highly skilled shortboarders and able to sail with you.

In summary, it would be good to start around 8 with intensive short board training. Some exposure earlier slogging around from 5-8 would be brilliant but this can be caught up quickly whenever they start. If your boy is over 3 concentrate on his swimming and start exposing him to the beach and all things windsurfing. Take him with you so he can see you windsurfing, get him his own little rig if possible and let him play with it and look at it. Start teaching him the parts of the board and rig so that when he gets on the water and you give him instructions he will understand what you're talking about. You can also teach him the actions off the water eg what to do when you say "mast forward" or "mast back" or "move your front hand back on the boom", practise "sheet in" or "sheet out" and how to uphaul and reach over and across. One of the things that put beginners off is the teacher shouting instructions to them on the water and you can reduce the need if the child automatically does what you say and has developed a bit of muscle memory before going on the water with all it's issues (like balancing). Also if you get them standing on any kind of board and jumping off it into the water and playing games on it, it will help to get their confidence up.




Top info and suggestions there KA360. My boy will be close to 3 next summer and if he shows any interest I will start the land tutorials with one of those tiny Ezzy rigs the kiddies use. My wife brings him to the beach when I sail, and he looks at the kites and sails and calls them birds! He loves the water and beach, so I really hope that he thinks sailing is awesome and wants to try it

sick_em_rex
NSW, 1600 posts
21 Dec 2012 6:10PM
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jamesf said...
My 5 year old is already hooked I think!





He was hooked James, quite literally with the back of his neck on your harness hook!

BarryFawkes
NSW, 149 posts
21 Dec 2012 7:01PM
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Rexy thats how I started both my sons and also mike lancey doubling them gave them a taste right at the start so they knew what the hard work would bring

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
22 Dec 2012 2:06AM
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FiremanSam said...

We enrolled them in the Summer School run by WV, but in the meantime they learnt pretty much all they needed from our own local instructors !


Windsurfing Victoria's Kids Club is fantastic! We came for a visit last year and I was really impressed. We'd love to have something like that in NSW. There are a few things going on for kids of various ages around the country - another that I know of is Jason Juretic who is doing great work with the Scouts in NSW. I was really happy to see that the Windsurfing Victoria's Kids Club was starting the kids nice and early. I think that it really helps to see other kids windsurfing. It also makes it more fun to learn with other kids.

From talking with other Windsurfers, it seems not all of us are finding it easy to get the kids enthusiastic about Windsurfing though. Some of them (maybe sensing that we are so keen to get them to windsurf) are even reluctant to learn . Others, watching only adults, think that windsurfing looks fun but is not for kids. I know a professional windsurfer who thought that he should wait until his daughter asked him to teach her to windsurf because then it would be easiest - she is now almost an adult and he has waited in vain (even though she saw that he enjoyed windsurfing). Another point to think about is having commitment (not the kid but the parent) - there are a lot of people who wait to get the appropriate gear when they are sure the kid will continue with the sport. Although there are always exceptions, generally if you don't make it easy (and fun) and have the right equipment to start with you ensure that this won't happen.

I think we need to share tips and techniques, give the kids an environment that encourages and supports them and sometimes provide them with different equipment. Sometimes a certain board is needed for just one or two sessions (to teach a specific skill for example) and it would be good to borrow something and not have to buy it. We have found that there are times when we've been trying to teach something and not having much luck but another kid comes along and teaches it effortlessly. Sometimes another adult can step in and explain something in another way to make a certain breakthough. Either way, the more kids and parents there are, the easier it will get for all of us.

Another benefit of meeting a couple of times a year is potentially making friends with someone who you can arrange to sail with more regularly. So the kids need to have fun as you have said but we need to put more thought into creating it for them if we are to succeed in giving our children the gift of windsurfing.

Chris 249
NSW, 3400 posts
22 Dec 2012 9:39AM
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I may be able to rock up with some gear at a later date - at the moment all my training sails are loaned out to others as my kids are 18 or older. My daughter (18) is teaching her boyfriend and his little brother over the hols.

If there is sufficient interest in teaching people in Canberra, then I may be able to bring down a full trailer-load of One Designs with 4.5s some time after we move to the ACT in January. I have no access to rigs for smaller kids at the moment.

It would be great to do some shortboard instruction as well, but not all kids are into "extreme" sports (look at the vast numbers who sail dinghies compared to the tiny numbers who sail boards) and we could lose a lot of them if they don't get to sail when it's light.

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
22 Dec 2012 10:25AM
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Chris 249 said...
... and we could lose a lot of them if they don't get to sail when it's light.


Luckily kids weigh less and so can often plane when it's light.

I would like to see the young kids planing, in the straps and harness and doing chop hops years before they have the strength to uphaul the Wally

Shortboarding isn't considered extreme these days. And kids are more likely to enjoy windsurfing if they are shortboarders. They think it is cooler. And they like the speed. Most love doing freestyle too. The rigs these days are also more responsive and the kids can learn better rig handling skills.

I don't want to put down the Wally (I have enjoyed it in the past) but there is now a better way of doing it. I think the old way has had it's chance and although many have stuck with the old gear and appreciate it, it's time to try a different approach to getting kids into windsurfing. Just relying on learning with Wallies has not necessarily helped to increase participation in the sport. It may be because kids like more adrenaline or it may be that they can't start early enough with it - what ever the reason it's not the best way anymore. I think shortboarding (like the vast majority of adults) is the way to keep kids interested in the sport.

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
22 Dec 2012 11:57AM
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Who is able/interested in getting together on the weekend of 12 and 13 January?

eckas
NSW, 323 posts
22 Dec 2012 12:50PM
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Haven't checked with the boss yet but I think I'd be a pretty reasonable chance for at least one of those days.

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
22 Dec 2012 12:57PM
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Great! How old are the kids?

Milsy
NSW, 1176 posts
22 Dec 2012 6:48PM
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hey, hows it going, sounds like a sweet idea, goodluck and nice one ka360, i agree with your longer post as well, i grew up on scotland Island in the, magnificent eighties, we were all windsurfer by about 5, but we played, paddled on one designs everywhere, making the sailing of them easy, really its more like sailing a small boat then windsurfing on such a big board, it enables the kids to sail in nothing, go anywhere, have adventures, we would sail to places a few ks away, waterfalls etc, great time, that form of sailing, zero performance exceptations, soley fun, exploring, playing, that was the greatest as a kid i think, then i guess about the age of ten, started being more concerned with performace, the gear, the heros, etc,, its a great sport for kids, i loved it and there was a massive crew of kids sailing as well, all different ages, all different ability, it was sweet, some still windsurf too, ha, goodluck to all involved

eckas
NSW, 323 posts
22 Dec 2012 7:27PM
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Only the oldest will be sailing - 6.5 yrs old.

Haven't heard others talk about this technique but I hook up his tiny sails (1.0 or 1.5 Ezzy) to a massive (210l) Starboard Start that easily floats us both. I sit just in front of the mast, facing backwards and help him trim the sail with my hand, but he puts in most of the work of holding the rig and generally following my instructions to lean it or sheet it.

I initially thought my weight on the board would have mucked up all normal dynamics of steering etc, but even with a 1.5m sail, it steers upwind and downwind as expected by leaning the rig for and aft. At some stage, I'll need to get off the board and let him go by himself, then get him a smaller board (got one of my old ones ready for that) but for the time being, this setup allows as to sails well away from the shore and be a bit more adventurous (eg sail out to an island, sail out to a sand spit) which is good for keeping him captivated.

eckas
NSW, 323 posts
22 Dec 2012 7:38PM
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A few photos are probably more useful than my written description....




KA360
NSW, 803 posts
22 Dec 2012 11:20PM
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He might like to have a look at this video of Alex when he was learning to windsurf (just a little older that your son). His blue sail (he called it his blue corvette) inspired the song we used. When I saw your son all in blue, I thought he might like to see it. The video shows Alex's progress from beginning to planning in the harness and footstraps (the stars aligned and this only took 3 months). It will show him what he might be like in a short time from now.



My daughter Elli is now 7 (so fairly close in age to him) and Alex is now 11. It will be good to have them sailing all together.

byronmc
NSW, 503 posts
23 Dec 2012 11:27AM
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We have racing on that weekend so all of us with kids from lake macquarie would not be able to come.
we basicaly dont have a free weekend untill after the oceanic titles. 23 & 24 Feb.
This is the weekend before we actualy come down to Jervis for the last round
"heat 7" of the state formula series. so would mean two weekends in a row driving down there but this could be managed.

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
23 Dec 2012 4:44PM
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Is that the weekend of 9 and 10 March? Do you think it might be getting a bit late in the season?

Chris 249
NSW, 3400 posts
24 Dec 2012 1:24PM
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KA360 said...
Chris 249 said...
... and we could lose a lot of them if they don't get to sail when it's light.


Luckily kids weigh less and so can often plane when it's light.

I would like to see the young kids planing, in the straps and harness and doing chop hops years before they have the strength to uphaul the Wally

Shortboarding isn't considered extreme these days. And kids are more likely to enjoy windsurfing if they are shortboarders. They think it is cooler. And they like the speed. Most love doing freestyle too. The rigs these days are also more responsive and the kids can learn better rig handling skills.

I don't want to put down the Wally (I have enjoyed it in the past) but there is now a better way of doing it. I think the old way has had it's chance and although many have stuck with the old gear and appreciate it, it's time to try a different approach to getting kids into windsurfing. Just relying on learning with Wallies has not necessarily helped to increase participation in the sport. It may be because kids like more adrenaline or it may be that they can't start early enough with it - what ever the reason it's not the best way anymore. I think shortboarding (like the vast majority of adults) is the way to keep kids interested in the sport.




I wasn't trying to push any particular style of sailing, but simply saying I could help out if needed.

I'm fairly sure that the biggest group of windsurfing teens and kids in NSW was the Junior One Design group, which has faded only because of kids growing up (and sometimes doing Olympic efforts and World Youth titles) and a lack of organisers. That, like the popularity of slow sailing dinghies, shows that not every kid wants the same thing.

.

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
24 Dec 2012 1:45PM
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Chris 249 said...
I wasn't trying to push any particular style of sailing, but simply saying I could help out if needed.


Sorry about the misunderstanding - it's just that in my post I had said that I thought we should aim to make them highly skilled shortboarders and your reply said it would be great to do "some" shortboard instruction "as well".

I know you have put a lot into the sport and strongly believe in using the old gear but I think it is time to embrace the new. Like moving from roller skates to roller blades or the old leather lace up ski boots to plastic.

I think using the old gear is a big mistake and probably has turned off more people than it has encouraged into windsurfing. Certainly children cannot learn on it until they are in their teens. They are simply not strong enough. Also, everyone (regardless of age or sex) will have a better experience and learn faster on modern gear. Also, these days the sails are very different. They are a wing not a hanky.

I don't wish to offend you or anyone who sails the Wally - good on you - at least you are out there. But, it isn't for me anymore or the majority of windsurfers around the world.

deejay8204
QLD, 557 posts
24 Dec 2012 2:08PM
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KA360 said...

I don't wish to offend you or anyone who sails the Wally - good on you - at least you are out there. But, it isn't for me anymore or the majority of windsurfers around the world.


I'm a vintage board sailor at only 30yo, I started on a Wayler in September of this year for fathers day. I have now moved up slightly to newer older gear which is lighter and more manageable. I can see where Chris 249 is coming from. Some kids might be put off by the strong winds and constantly getting thrown off the board when learning on faster short boards. I think in what Chris249 is saying is to have an option of when there is little winds bring out the long boards.

Since I started I have had my past Wayler out in 20-25knot winds with gusts of up to 35knots at Lake Cootharaba. So winds dont really bother me too much, but to some of the younger kids that will be starting I think it would bother them quite a bit until they get the hang of controlling a board first before hitting waves and trying to be as fast as they cant be.

In the last 4 weeks I have met some amazing guys that still sail the old boards. One fellow sailor has just bought a Brand New Modern Windsurfer One Design from Sydney. another like minded person has 2 trailer loads of old boards that he still uses. If you look in the QLD section a fellow sailor there is cruising an old Kona at Lake Cootharaba when so many other sailor cant get on the water due to little winds.

If we can get the kids out in low winds on old Wallys etc, and shorter boards in stronger Wind days that would suit them perfectly fine, as long as they are having fun.

CaptainHadoc
NSW, 128 posts
24 Dec 2012 3:35PM
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From my short experience at teaching one kid (9 yo, 25-30kg), I've found that short boards will work perfectly for them[1] in winds as light as 5-10kt.
(don't let the low POV fool you, that's a 2.1 and the kid is barely 1m high)


And for those who were at Kyeemagh (Botany Bay) yesterday, they can confirm these gear still work in 20-25kt... Which I was pretty struck by....

[1] Them being very young kids: 7-10 (or using a more appropriate unit: 20-35kg). Since that's what the topic was initially about.

Note: For full disclosure, I got quite a lot of tips about teaching kids from KA360, so my contribution to this debate might be considered partial. But the fact remains that he was planning yesterday in a NE at Kyeemagh after 10ish lessons... So either he's damn gifted, or there must be some truth to that...

On the same topic, having taught quite a lot of Uni students over the past year and half on Starboard Start (and then Go), and having myself been taught the old way (bic rumba then bic metal rock), plus having seen the old breed of our club members (windsurfing one design -> techno 283), the new gear are making a lot of people happier sooner. Sure the old way was teaching you a lot about balance and light wind skills, but how many were sticking long enough to see their first planning?

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
24 Dec 2012 3:55PM
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deejay8204 said...
Some kids might be put off by the strong winds and constantly getting thrown off the board when learning on faster short boards. I think in what Chris249 is saying is to have an option of when there is little winds bring out the long boards.



Little kids CANNOT use Wallys. They are too small and not strong enough (often weighing between 20 and 35 kg). There are modern boards that are used in light winds. Light wind sailing does not have to be done on a Wally.

I taught my 5 year old daughter on a new board (made around 2005), same as the board in the photo above. It has padding and is friendly and kid sized.

I don't know if you have experienced only vintage boards but you may have found it easier and more fun if you had learnt on modern gear. How long did it take you to plane?

It might be interesting for you to try a 100 litre freestyle board with a light rig for comparison. Let me know what you think once you've had a go. I guarantee you will find it exhilirating.

When there was no choice the one design was "better than nothing" but this is no longer the case in my opinion.

deejay8204
QLD, 557 posts
24 Dec 2012 3:36PM
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KA360 said...
deejay8204 said...
Some kids might be put off by the strong winds and constantly getting thrown off the board when learning on faster short boards. I think in what Chris249 is saying is to have an option of when there is little winds bring out the long boards.



Little kids CANNOT use Wallys. They are too small and not strong enough (often weighing between 20 and 35 kg). There are modern boards that are used in light winds. Light wind sailing does not have to be done on a Wally.

I taught my 5 year old daughter on a new board (made around 2005), same as the board in the photo above. It has padding and is friendly and kid sized.

I don't know if you have experienced only vintage boards but you may have found it easier and more fun if you had learnt on modern gear. How long did it take you to plane?

It might be interesting for you to try a 100 litre freestyle board with a light rig for comparison. Let me know what you think once you've had a go. I guarantee you will find it exhilirating.

When there was no choice the one design was "better than nothing" but this is no longer the case in my opinion.



I agree the the old gear is heavy, I done my lessons on a Starboard Start I think it was, and I have had a go on a more modern 110lt slalom board and I did love it.

I also have moved on to lighter modern old gear, an F2 Sputnik 115lt (yet to use it due to lack of winds) and an older Bic Metal Rock.

Im not saying they wont find it easier to learn on brand new modern gear but if someone can turn up with a trailer of wally boards as well as modern gear and be willing to help teach, the kids will get on them as well, isn't that the whole point of this topic to help teach the kids?
I think regardless of what they are on they will still have fun.

I cant wait to get my daughter in to sailing, she is only 4yo at the moment, She has watched the video on your daughter (very inspirational) and now wants to help with rigging my boards and sails etc.

I still love the old boards, Lots of fun learning, never complained. I have now got 3 friends into sailing vintage gear. I still use a Hifly 500CS (modern Sail and Boom) as well as an old Windsurfer One Design (all original except boom) of my mates.

BTW i got on the plane after my 3rd outing on the Wayler which was the same day I went up for my lesson 10-15knot winds with the 3.5m sail on (and tie up boom). that's me on the day in my avatar, I was tacking out and back all day and loving every bit of it. We had two vintage boards out that day and had lots of good comments on how they were sailed in the low winds. (The Wayler I had was 38kg, I would never recommend that for a kids board, The Hifly is 18kg i think so its not to bad to learn on).

KA360
NSW, 803 posts
24 Dec 2012 5:02PM
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CaptainHadoc said...
... he was planning yesterday in a NE at Kyeemagh after 10ish lessons... So either he's damn gifted, or there must be some truth to that...



Woohoo! Awesome!

Are you/his parents able to come down to Sanctuary Point mid Jan?

Give me a ring - He is about ready to use an S-type for a few sessions (same for Elli). They will probably be carve gybing by next Christmas and everyone will say that they're naturals.

To put it in perspective, they are at least 4 years too young to uphaul a 4.5 metre on a Wally.

byronmc
NSW, 503 posts
24 Dec 2012 6:42PM
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As stated 23 24 Febuary is one of the only free weekends in a very busy calander.



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"For Windsurfing Parents" started by KA360