Evening Breezers
I have just had my small plate aluminium boat assessed by a marine surveyor on behalf of the insurance company the boats insured through.
I contacted the insurance company as the boat has sprung many leaks in the bottom hull sheet and when I went to get it repaired the repairer said it was cheaper to get a new hull then repair the existing.
This is because all the longitudinal stringers attached to the bottom hull sheet have bust off at the welds.
The boats less then 2 years old & 4.5m's long and made of 4mm plate with fully welded deck.
The marine surveyor has recommended I go to a metallurgist as it appears that the boat has not been welded to a correctly. Once I get a report from the metallurgist confirming that ( if thats the case ) I then have to go through consumer law and send a letter of demand to the boat builder.Im writing on here to see if anyone has had to do this before and if theres any do's and dont's to follow in the process. Im currently a lot of money out of pocket for the boat + extras + previous repairs and Ive been told Im not to use the boat as is because if it sinks and someone gets injured I am liable. Any help would be appreciated as its basically one expensive piece of scrap metal taking up space in my inlaws driveway.
Interesting case......
firstly if if you get a metallurgical report they will be able to tell you wire make etc etc, ally boats welds should t seperate unless you have been thrashing it to pieces in 2 years.
I would ring the boat supplier builder you bought it from first and tell them, you may not be the only one. If they say they will replace them happy days, most likely not though it is certainly worth a try.
was the hull made in Australia or imported and plated here?
metallurgical report can tell you what the weld is and metal composition however will not tell you always why the weld has failed.
are you sure there is no electrolysis in the boat or hull? A few fishing hooks will cause some electrolysis and the worst one is swivels when you drop the packet.
They can be rewelded pretty easy by the "right " person but I'd want to go down other avenues first and at least ask the supplier to repair/replace
Select to expand quoteRazzonater said..
Interesting case......
firstly if if you get a metallurgical report they will be able to tell you wire make etc etc, ally boats welds should t seperate unless you have been thrashing it to pieces in 2 years.
I would ring the boat supplier builder you bought it from first and tell them, you may not be the only one. If they say they will replace them happy days, most likely not though it is certainly worth a try.
was the hull made in Australia or imported and plated here?
metallurgical report can tell you what the weld is and metal composition however will not tell you always why the weld has failed.
are you sure there is no electrolysis in the boat or hull? A few fishing hooks will cause some electrolysis and the worst one is swivels when you drop the packet.
They can be rewelded pretty easy by the "right " person but I'd want to go down other avenues first and at least ask the supplier to repair/replace
Ive contacted the builder and he has said its nothing to do with him and its due to the adventures ive had in the boat.
The hull was made in Australia. He is not a big company hence why I believe he is trying to pass the buck on why it broke. Ive been told by a few people just by looking at the welds on the stringers that it hasnt been welded or prepared properly.
Ive also been told that it cant be repaired due to the amount of cracks and that any repairs would just crack again due to the welds making the areas more brittle around them. Im really worried that Im going to go down the path of metallurgist and letter of demand and spend more money and be left without a boat and with no money....Can a metallurgist find the reason for the welds popping? Wether it be pressure of the water or the welder not being setup properly and the materials not being prepared which is why it has come unstuck on the side of the welds n not cracked a piece of the sheet off?
Select to expand quoteok said..Razzonater said..
Interesting case......
firstly if if you get a metallurgical report they will be able to tell you wire make etc etc, ally boats welds should t seperate unless you have been thrashing it to pieces in 2 years.
I would ring the boat supplier builder you bought it from first and tell them, you may not be the only one. If they say they will replace them happy days, most likely not though it is certainly worth a try.
was the hull made in Australia or imported and plated here?
metallurgical report can tell you what the weld is and metal composition however will not tell you always why the weld has failed.
are you sure there is no electrolysis in the boat or hull? A few fishing hooks will cause some electrolysis and the worst one is swivels when you drop the packet.
They can be rewelded pretty easy by the "right " person but I'd want to go down other avenues first and at least ask the supplier to repair/replace
Ive contacted the builder and he has said its nothing to do with him and its due to the adventures ive had in the boat.
The hull was made in Australia. He is not a big company hence why I believe he is trying to pass the buck on why it broke. Ive been told by a few people just by looking at the welds on the stringers that it hasnt been welded or prepared properly.
Ive also been told that it cant be repaired due to the amount of cracks and that any repairs would just crack again due to the welds making the areas more brittle around them. Im really worried that Im going to go down the path of metallurgist and letter of demand and spend more money and be left without a boat and with no money....Can a metallurgist find the reason for the welds popping? Wether it be pressure of the water or the welder not being setup properly and the materials not being prepared which is why it has come unstuck on the side of the welds n not cracked a piece of the sheet off?
Where was she built ? I know a bloke !
No need for metalurgist. Not fit for purpose .Go him under consumer law. Go to the consumer affairs website.
No need for metalurgist. Not fit for purpose .Go him under consumer law. Go to the consumer affairs website.
Hi ok, I'm going to be the voice of reason here and ask you why your insurance company is not handling all of this? I am assuming you have insured the boat with them since new and have adequate cover and a good insurer/policy. It's their job and you've paid your premium and your hull has failed, they need to fix it for you.
Select to expand quotePaddles B'mere said..
Hi ok, I'm going to be the voice of reason here and ask you why your insurance company is not handling all of this? I am assuming you have insured the boat with them since new and have adequate cover and a good insurer/policy. It's their job and you've paid your premium and your hull has failed, they need to fix it for you.
I'm not sure it works like that. Plenty of stories in the media about people with lemon cars, but car insurance doesn't cover them. Insurance is for theft, collisions, etc. Not sure it would cover equipment failure?
Select to expand quotePaddles B'mere said..
Hi ok, I'm going to be the voice of reason here and ask you why your insurance company is not handling all of this? I am assuming you have insured the boat with them since new and have adequate cover and a good insurer/policy. It's their job and you've paid your premium and your hull has failed, they need to fix it for you.
Insurance to cover shoddy manufacture? Nah, consumer law!!
Put it in writing to the company. tell them what you want done. tell them when you expect a response. Tell them that taking no action will mean you will go through the formal process.
Select to expand quotePugwash said..Paddles B'mere said..
Hi ok, I'm going to be the voice of reason here and ask you why your insurance company is not handling all of this? I am assuming you have insured the boat with them since new and have adequate cover and a good insurer/policy. It's their job and you've paid your premium and your hull has failed, they need to fix it for you.
Insurance to cover shoddy manufacture? Nah, consumer law!!
Put it in writing to the company. tell them what you want done. tell them when you expect a response. Tell them that taking no action will mean you will go through the formal process.
^ this
however don't get your hopes up. The consumer protection in WA have absolutely no power, not sure about your state but I assume it's similar.
Recently I had to make use of their services and it was waste of time as all they do is pass your complaint to the vendor and repeat their response back to you and close the case with advice you hire a lawyer.
There's even a tool to help you put it in writing... google acl letter template faulty product or something like that...
My bad, I just checked the PDS for my boat insurance and I was half wrong, it will cover damages incurred by a latent defect but not the cost of repairing the latent defect itself. I would now recommend seeking legal advice from a solicitor before you get your metallurgist on the job, the solicitor will know the correct process and maybe the right people.
Select to expand quotePaddles B'mere said..
My bad, I just checked the PDS for my boat insurance and I was half wrong, it will cover damages incurred by a latent defect but not the cost of repairing the latent defect itself. I would now recommend seeking legal advice from a solicitor before you get your metallurgist on the job, the solicitor will know the correct process and maybe the right people.
Why seek legal advice now? There's a process that can be followed which has no immediate cost.
As a second step (the vendor has already been contacted), a letter (or email) stating the claim, what he wants (to repair or replace) and requesting a response or formal action will be taken is all that is needed.
If the builder/vendor takes no action, then go through ACCC, ombudsmen or spend the money on a lawyer.
We've found that for claims (not consumer law) most guys will usually take no action till they hear from a lawyer (or QCAT if it's less than $25k here in QLD). But for sure it'll do no harm to send a letter of demand based on the product being defective to see if they will be reasonable.
My insurance doesnt cover for faulty / poor workmanship. I will be putting in my letter of demand the results from the metallurgist and a written report saying the boat is not fit for purpose. My biggest issue is I dont want to spend loads of time and money and be left with a piece of scrap metal and a bill.
Select to expand quoteok said..
My insurance doesnt cover for faulty / poor workmanship. I will be putting in my letter of demand the results from the metallurgist and a written report saying the boat is not fit for purpose. My biggest issue is I dont want to spend loads of time and money and be left with a piece of scrap metal and a bill.
He is a quick way to verify what you are suspected has happen.
Find the closest "coded welder training outlet". These are usually a single engineer type shop that test and certify coded welders in the Boilermaker Welding trade for major fabrication groups.
The businesses usually like these type of examples to show boilermaker welder customer students sitting for coding exams to ensure they don't make the same mistake.
They will give you an honest appraisal of what's wrong with the initial set up. Your provider will struggle to refute any appraisals by these type training centers.
Hope you get it sorted. 
After more digging today ive found that he has sold the exact same boat to a pro crabber and the boat has completely fallen to bits! Hopefully if i can add that with my letter of demand.
Maybe get in touch with the abc show the checkout .
Put it in as F.U tube .
That might get results
nationally broadcast complaint.
that has to be the crappiest welding i have seen,
to repair that hull will require some one who knows what they are doing , because the boat has been built, every time you weld it the welds will cool and stress the surrounding area and re crack ,the repairer will have to de stress the areas of repair after welding .the boat is obviously covered in these welds and it is only time before they fail.
if the builder only builds a few boats and they are like this he will close his business and reopen under a new name if you win a case against him .and leave you further out of pocket.
find some one who knows what they are doing and get it repaired properly , this will satisfy your duty of care to have a sea worthy boat and give you a better boat that you can use.
i
Select to expand quoteactiomax said..
Maybe get in touch with the abc show the checkout .
Put it in as F.U tube .
That might get results
nationally broadcast complaint.
They are not making it any more :( :(
Contact the insurance company and tell em you've hit something maybe a sandbar or whale or a big shark which broke the welds and boat is broke. Which is kinda what's happened. And just make a claim ????
That is not good mate at that size I expect you got a patey instead of pressed hull for a stronger boat if he will not help you out paint it lemon yellow make up a sign with appropriate details and park it outside his place of business will not get your boat fixed but will maybe stop him from selling crap to anyone else.
Select to expand quoteok said..
After more digging today ive found that he has sold the exact same boat to a pro crabber and the boat has completely fallen to bits! Hopefully if i can add that with my letter of demand.
What happened in the pro crabber's case? Was an outcome reached?
You could go super glue all his locks so when he goes to get in he can't & then he can't lock you out to avoid you .
The pro crabber onsold the boat to a young bloke who bought it for 3k then spent 3k getting it repaired. He is about to send me the photos prior to repair. @marsbars its a 4mm plate boat with fully welded deck. I got it thinking it would last me ages compared to a ****ty pressed hull like a quintrex. The marine surveyor assessor from the insurance company has already written his report stating its poor workmanship so my only way of recouping some funds it to send a letter of demand to the boat builder. Its astonishing to see that in 2018 someone can get away with building such a poor quality vessels and not have to be held accountable without going through a massive process, thats why I was asking on here so I can have a strong case and hopefully recoup some of my costs and then be grateful I didn't die on the water!
If a marine surveyor said its shoddy workmanship not due to being flogged I don't see how the manufacturer can avoid it now.
On another note I am finding this really interesting as I am an OK welder sometimes but never done ally.
The fillet welds look like good penetration on both surfaces but still let go on one surface. Grich62 says worst he's ever seen, so I'd be interested to know what indicates that so I can learn a bit.
The flat welds look good too and have cracked right thru the middle, were they repairs that induced stress and then cracked? If so why?
Can the experts tell us what looks bad here?
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
If a marine surveyor said its shoddy workmanship not due to being flogged I don't see how the manufacturer can avoid it now.
On another note I am finding this really interesting as I am an OK welder sometimes but never done ally.
The fillet welds look like good penetration on both surfaces but still let go on one surface. Grich62 says worst he's ever seen, so I'd be interested to know what indicates that so I can learn a bit.
The flat welds look good too and have cracked right thru the middle, were they repairs that induced stress and then cracked? If so why?
Can the experts tell us what looks bad here?
mark the pictures of the intersecting welds show no surface preparation and no penetration of the weld,it also shows that there is a lot of stress as the weld has moved away from the plate .the weld also shows that it was rushed as the pool has thinned out and the weld is just sitting on the top .the other sections were they tried to fill a crack,a crack needs to be distressed while cooling to stop shrinkage pulling the weld apart ,i use a needle gun to beat the stress out while cooling.in all crack repairs the end of the crack should be drilled
these are some photos of the repair of a truck chassis and truck diffs before and after ,you can sea the rough texture from the needle gun which distresses the weld and the surrounding area ,these trucks are still in service after 5 years
Select to expand quotegrich62 said..Mark _australia said..
If a marine surveyor said its shoddy workmanship not due to being flogged I don't see how the manufacturer can avoid it now.
On another note I am finding this really interesting as I am an OK welder sometimes but never done ally.
The fillet welds look like good penetration on both surfaces but still let go on one surface. Grich62 says worst he's ever seen, so I'd be interested to know what indicates that so I can learn a bit.
The flat welds look good too and have cracked right thru the middle, were they repairs that induced stress and then cracked? If so why?
Can the experts tell us what looks bad here?
mark the pictures of the intersecting welds show no surface preparation and no penetration of the weld,it also shows that there is a lot of stress as the weld has moved away from the plate .the weld also shows that it was rushed as the pool has thinned out and the weld is just sitting on the top .the other sections were they tried to fill a crack,a crack needs to be distressed while cooling to stop shrinkage pulling the weld apart ,i use a needle gun to beat the stress out while cooling.in all crack repairs the end of the crack should be drilled
these are some photos of the repair of a truck chassis and truck diffs before and after ,you can sea the rough texture from the needle gun which distresses the weld and the surrounding area ,these trucks are still in service after 5 years
Whats your job title? and location? Would pay you to have a look if you think its repairable ?
my dad allways said if you want somthing done properly do it yourself https://www.gasweld.com.au/shop-by-brand/unimig/kumjr190kit-unimig
+ a bottle argon wire brush 6 inch grinder. some 4 mm plate to practice on . good luck
