Select to expand quoteMilsy said..kiterboy said..Wahine said...kiterboy said...
That's because it's such an extremely self-indulgent way of thinking.
Suicidal thoughts are, especially in our country, the height of self-indulgence.
Perhaps there are people out there who death is the best option for, but I doubt it.
Of all the people I've known directly or indirectly who have committed suicide, none of them were living in conditions that made death the best option, not by a long shot.
Is self-indulgence so much more offensive than your self-righteousness?
How many decisions that we make in our lives are truly not self-indulgent? We choose a career, a partner, to have children, a home, furnish it with material possessions. Are these decisions not all ultimately driven by efforts to make ourselves happy?
How can you stand in generic judgement of unknown silent masses all experiencing unique and individual pain? How can you know for whom death is not a better option?
How many lives look like roses on the surface but hide dark secrets that may never come out, even in death?
Please try not to judge what you cannot see.
It's self-righteousness me saying that death is never the answer?
Where do you get off making the judgement call that death would be the right answer for anyone?
mental health is not an example of a human thinking rationally, to suggest that the conclusion one makes to commit suicide is a form of selfishness, or an example of self indulgence just doesn't ring true for all, there are some, like yourself kiterboy, that think its this and a form of cowardice, but again most disagree, the whole coward thing doesn't make much sense, simply put, most humans would be to scared to kill themselves regardless of mindset, and is the guy who jumps on a hand grenade, ultimately killing himself, suicide, his not a coward, would you go to a hospital and call them cowards, the non fatal suicide attempts, of course not, a champion is a person who keeps giving, especially when it appears there will be no return for efforts, just keep giving, keep inspiring, a coward is someone who takes from those unable to hold whats theirs, eg its cowardly to call someone with mental health issues a coward, its cowardly to disrespect the dead,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I've really enjoyed your posts Wahine, especially about first world living, leading to more suicide than those that generally fight for survival daily, very interesting, and i think true, society is the term for our collective approach to living, i think society doesn't met the needs of many, causing fractures, mental health etc, not everyone can be a ruthless money making machine, we should have allowed many platforms for people to exist not just the capitalistic society we have now, not the drug or grog abuse, but i love the freedom Aboriginals have, no association with wealth, many white guys just cant get their head around, but i love the way they live
WTF are you on about?
I never said anything about cowardice, and never called anyone a coward.
Your grammar is almost unreadable; are you calling people who commit suicide 'champions'??
How the hell do you make the parallel between someone acting in the environment of war jumping on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, to a depressed person who kills themselves?
Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, for what ever reason it comes about from (soldiers' acts of self sacrifice excepted of course).
But I never said it was cowardice.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said...pierrec45 said..kiterboy said..
Of all the people I've known directly or indirectly who have committed suicide, none of them were living in conditions that made death the best option, not by a long shot.
Guess what's the only thing in common with all those people ? 
Self-indulgent thinking leading to suicide.
Can I ask if this has happened in your family when you were younger? I was thinking if I was young and my father or mother did something like this I would feel exactly the same...cheated / abandoned by someone who rather than looking after me looked after themselves and did what they wanted to do. In reality it's not that simple...depression is nasty thing and if someone kills themselves they have got to such a low point that they can't see any other way out. Very hard for someone that hasn't been through it to understand.
This freakonomics podcast is worth listening to, doesn't unearth any answers to suicide, however it is very interesting.
freakonomics.com/podcast/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-suicide-paradox/
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..
It's self-righteousness me saying that death is never the answer?
Where do you get off making the judgement call that death would be the right answer for anyone?
Most objections against euthanasia are faith based!
But when one is in that much pain and have lived a life then a quick ending is a fair call.
I laugh at how sad I was in the past until I got health issues!!! To think I was depressed in perfect health and freedom seems odd now, but I was soon to find out how much your health is worth. And trust me when you've been sick a long time with no end insight, it will change your perspective.
For me I believe by facing death and talking about it brings our attention to life and how valuable it is.
I can only think of two reasons why you are taking this stand ; you really can't comprehended it and lack emperthy for others or you like to stir the pot!
Ps. I appreciate any view from people who are not afraid to voice an opinion, but once stated then let it rest unless you've got more constructive input to a sensitive issue like this.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Milsy said..kiterboy said..Wahine said...kiterboy said...
That's because it's such an extremely self-indulgent way of thinking.
Suicidal thoughts are, especially in our country, the height of self-indulgence.
Perhaps there are people out there who death is the best option for, but I doubt it.
Of all the people I've known directly or indirectly who have committed suicide, none of them were living in conditions that made death the best option, not by a long shot.
Is self-indulgence so much more offensive than your self-righteousness?
How many decisions that we make in our lives are truly not self-indulgent? We choose a career, a partner, to have children, a home, furnish it with material possessions. Are these decisions not all ultimately driven by efforts to make ourselves happy?
How can you stand in generic judgement of unknown silent masses all experiencing unique and individual pain? How can you know for whom death is not a better option?
How many lives look like roses on the surface but hide dark secrets that may never come out, even in death?
Please try not to judge what you cannot see.
It's self-righteousness me saying that death is never the answer?
Where do you get off making the judgement call that death would be the right answer for anyone?
mental health is not an example of a human thinking rationally, to suggest that the conclusion one makes to commit suicide is a form of selfishness, or an example of self indulgence just doesn't ring true for all, there are some, like yourself kiterboy, that think its this and a form of cowardice, but again most disagree, the whole coward thing doesn't make much sense, simply put, most humans would be to scared to kill themselves regardless of mindset, and is the guy who jumps on a hand grenade, ultimately killing himself, suicide, his not a coward, would you go to a hospital and call them cowards, the non fatal suicide attempts, of course not, a champion is a person who keeps giving, especially when it appears there will be no return for efforts, just keep giving, keep inspiring, a coward is someone who takes from those unable to hold whats theirs, eg its cowardly to call someone with mental health issues a coward, its cowardly to disrespect the dead,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I've really enjoyed your posts Wahine, especially about first world living, leading to more suicide than those that generally fight for survival daily, very interesting, and i think true, society is the term for our collective approach to living, i think society doesn't met the needs of many, causing fractures, mental health etc, not everyone can be a ruthless money making machine, we should have allowed many platforms for people to exist not just the capitalistic society we have now, not the drug or grog abuse, but i love the freedom Aboriginals have, no association with wealth, many white guys just cant get their head around, but i love the way they live
WTF are you on about?
I never said anything about cowardice, and never called anyone a coward.
Your grammar is almost unreadable; are you calling people who commit suicide 'champions'??
How the hell do you make the parallel between someone acting in the environment of war jumping on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, to a depressed person who kills themselves?
Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, for what ever reason it comes about from (soldiers' acts of self sacrifice excepted of course).
But I never said it was cowardice.
ha, hey, calm down man, i never said you said it was cowardly, the "and" suggests people agree with your selfish, self indulgence thing AND they also think cowardice, you should read it again, more attention to detail,,, no, i didn't suggest a champion commits siucide, it was just suggesting the difference between champion and coward, the solider bit was suggesting that their are many forms of suicide, and that form certainly isn't selfish, as you've eluded to,,,,,,,,,,periods are for pussys
,,,,,,surely you can think of more selfish displays than a human killing themselves, i would have thought a human killing others for gain is more selfish,
When ever I read comments like "Selfish. Inconsiderate. Cowards way out" when discussing suicide, I just want to give the individual who posted it a good kick up the arse and tell them 'Unless you have experienced dark spells of you own then don't you dare judge those who have sadly left this world as a result of taking their own life' Just for one moment, put yourself in their shoes and show some empathy. Just imagine how lonely and desperate they must have been feeling. No one to turn to for help. Makes me sad thinking about this!
Select to expand quotepoor relative said..
Long term solution to a short term problem.
Actually, my psychologist said this to me long ago. What it means is that even though you may feel so suicidal today, you may not always feel like that. Essentially he was saying that suicide is just another coping mechanism. The catch is getting help quickly before you make that decision - otherwise its impossible to see a way out. I was lucky because I got early intervention. heaps of others aren't that lucky.
Select to expand quoteDezman said..kiterboy said..
It's self-righteousness me saying that death is never the answer?
Where do you get off making the judgement call that death would be the right answer for anyone?
Most objections against euthanasia are faith based!
But when one is in that much pain and have lived a life then a quick ending is a fair call.
I laugh at how sad I was in the past until I got health issues!!! To think I was depressed in perfect health and freedom seems odd now, but I was soon to find out how much your health is worth. And trust me when you've been sick a long time with no end insight, it will change your perspective.
For me I believe by facing death and talking about it brings our attention to life and how valuable it is.
I can only think of two reasons why you are taking this stand ; you really can't comprehended it and lack emperthy for others or you like to stir the pot!
Ps. I appreciate any view from people who are not afraid to voice an opinion, but once stated then let it rest unless you've got more constructive input to a sensitive issue like this.
You have no idea what I've dealt with or experienced, so you, and others, making those judgement calls are being hypocritical saying I've no idea what I'm talking about.
Euthanasia is a totally different kettle of fish.
Soldiers jumping on grenades another one.
This thread was started on depression induced suicide, I assumed it was the depression caused by bad personal circumstances.
So many people who commit suicide do so from a depression which is a self centred/indulgent self feeding cycle, many of them have support structures, family, friends etc, yet choose not to call on those support structures for help.
No, no one can understand or empathize with their pain, right?
So why bother trying.
Instead they inflict their 'pain' on those around them by taking the "oh woe is me" exit.
What makes one person crawl out of a hole of bad circumstances that would see another decide that death/oblivion/nothingness is the answer?
P.S.- everyone is entitled to their opinion, don't get too excited red-thumbers, it's nothing worth killing yourself over.
Select to expand quoterod_bunny said..
Why isn't this being red-thumbed?
It's what I've been saying; perhaps I should post up an internet picture too...
^^^ha, no, thats not exactly what you've been saying man, you seem to be saying that depression is the ultimate form of selfishness or self indulgence with its climax being suicide, the ultra form of self indulgence for a human, thats what you've been saying, you also appear very dissmissive of the pain the suicidal person deals with, again suggesting its simply selfish, you've had posts from members suggesting past and present pain when dealing with depression and then you go and mock the seriousness of it all, "Not worth killing yourself over it" , you appear immature, undeveloped in this regard,
Select to expand quoteMilsy said..
^^^ha, no, thats not exactly what you've been saying man, you seem to be saying that depression is the ultimate form of selfishness or self indulgence with its climax being suicide, the ultra form of self indulgence for a human, thats what you've been saying, you also appear very dissmissive of the pain the suicidal person deals with, again suggesting its simply selfish, you've had posts from members suggesting past and present pain when dealing with depression and then you go and mock the seriousness of it all, "Not worth killing yourself over it" , you appear immature, undeveloped in this regard,
Glass houses brother.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..rod_bunny said..
Why isn't this being red-thumbed?
It's what I've been saying; perhaps I should post up an internet picture too...
Its very, very hard to explain very deep depression with someone who has been lucky enough not to have had it. I am not speaking specifically to anyone here just my own thoughts coming about from my experience with this ugly thing. All the placards, interent posters and what ever don't mean very much and if anything, assumes that the someone suffering from depression can 'snap out of it' and just get on with things. That is't good at all.
Again, just my experiences. Results, as ever. may vary.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Milsy said..
^^^ha, no, thats not exactly what you've been saying man, you seem to be saying that depression is the ultimate form of selfishness or self indulgence with its climax being suicide, the ultra form of self indulgence for a human, thats what you've been saying, you also appear very dissmissive of the pain the suicidal person deals with, again suggesting its simply selfish, you've had posts from members suggesting past and present pain when dealing with depression and then you go and mock the seriousness of it all, "Not worth killing yourself over it" , you appear immature, undeveloped in this regard,
Glass houses brother.
Think kiterboy just wants to win the 'fight' here. Go home bro in your glory and take nothing newly learned with you. Many people here have tried to appeal to your compassionate and empathetic side which seems like it hasn't worked. Your comments are probably upsetting more people than you realise here.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..
P.S.- everyone is entitled to their opinion, don't get too excited red-thumbers, it's nothing worth killing yourself over.
I think I know where your coming from!
Attention seekers, people who use the threat of suicide to cause others pain or even go through with it to a point of leaving their body to be found by a loved one.
A lot of suicides from depression hide it until it's to late, many people are shocked when they hear about. I heard quite a few go to hospital car parks to have their body found.
I tried to plan mine as an accident but knowing the magnitude of it that I had little chance to plan that well!
You are only looking at the end result and the aftermath that the loved ones have to deal with! When many here are commenting on the lead up to it as the thread was based on 'depression suicide' but of course like most threads there are many ways to look at it.
Euthanasia is suicide and not murder from a doctor! Even though the word it self speaks of assistance to die its the persons choice most times and they way out of the pain.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..rod_bunny said..
Why isn't this being red-thumbed?
It's what I've been saying; perhaps I should post up an internet picture too...
The difference is.... it means hope (to me).
Today might be **** but tomorrow... tomorrow, I may win lifes lotto, or it may be just a little bit less **** than today.
Its a positive internal mantra looking from the bottom up, not a condescending retort thrown flippantly from external and on high.
PS I'm not directing that at you but to you. Take from it what you will, its just my 2p.
In my early twenties a very good mate of mine had a bro who (was older than us) but didn't take his marriage break down well. He's business went under and he slowly started to drink very heavy and became increasingly angry. Im mean when he drank very angry.
On a few occasions i found myself running around all over the state trying to talk him down from the proverbial ledges.
Every time we found him and he calmed down he just wanted to be with his family, but sadly his actions had pushed him further away than was bearable. One last time we were looking for him and sadly my mate found him at his Ex's house. Luckily i guess his kids or ex didn't get their first, but even though it seemed so selfish at the time, we came to see it for what it was. A desperate one last attempt to be close to his kids and the last place he was truly happy.
Ill never understand Darren's actions but i one thing i could never do is judge.. 
Its been said before life is precious. Sadly not everyone see's that all the time, so its up to the rest of us to help point it out. Im glad i don't and never have suffered serous depression, but that doesn't mean i don't have to deal with it, we all do. But compassion, understanding and communication i believe is the answer. We can chose to be part of the problem, by turning a blind eye, or making a difference.
I guess my point is life, is not just black and white..
