Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Tow ball kill lady in Geraldton

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Created by king of the point > 9 months ago, 23 Aug 2011
king of the point
WA, 1836 posts
23 Aug 2011 6:25PM
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Not good news doods

The car was being pulled out of the sand at the beach around spot x and coronation beach area by a snatch strap which had been attached around the tow ball when it snapped. The tow ball sheered off sending it through the front window striking the 27 year old mother of 3 whom was sitting in the back seat of the car, in the the throat area .......................

sickening really

waynos
TAS, 171 posts
23 Aug 2011 8:48PM
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Tow balls are not made to snatch off of, I'm still surprised that all snatch straps don't come with a label on each end stating this. Even when used properly snatch straps and winches are still dangerous as hell but a necessary evil. Having said that they are great when it all works the way it's supposed to. My father in law has had a tow hook come through the back window of his cruiser past his left ear and smash his windscreen so even when attached to the appropriate points they can still cause mayhem.

Don't even want to think about a flying towball in the throat. UUUGGGHHH.

Mark _australia
WA, 22412 posts
23 Aug 2011 7:02PM
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Rule 1: never snatch off towballs

Rule 2: always place a heavy bag over the strap so if it breaks the heavy bag in the middle kills the momentum.

I agree Waynos - they should have warnings for the clowns who think they know what they're doing

barn
WA, 2960 posts
23 Aug 2011 7:04PM
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Was anybody at Pt Moore a few years ago when somebody tried to tow a Kombi out of the sand by its bull bar?.. The guy towing, took off at about 20k and once the rope went taut it ripped the Bullbar off the Kombi.. It went flying..

It was like he thought he needed a run up..

nick0
NSW, 510 posts
23 Aug 2011 9:46PM
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we pull our truck out of the mud at work all the time useing a towball . never even though not 2 ...

BarryDawson
WA, 175 posts
23 Aug 2011 8:03PM
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When my eldest son was about 3 (he's 26 now) I was pulling a stump out of the ground with a nylon rope shackled to a 4wd. I made sure my young bloke was off to the side off the line of the rope and then drove the slack out of the nylon rope.

The shackle broke

It flew of the 4wd like a bullet straight at his head, he saw it coming, he flinched just before it got to him and hit him in the left ear. I ran straight up to him and held his head expecting blood to come running out between my fingers, luckily it had just glanced him and he was crying saying he had a loud ringing in his ear, other than that he was ok

Moral of the story, use extreme caution when using this type of equipment!

And dont use shackles!!!!!!

kk
WA, 947 posts
23 Aug 2011 8:59PM
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From what I have been told, and read. The story is to not use a tow ball and to only attach to designated recovery points and where a shackle is required use one that is load rated at a SWL (safe working limit) to match or exceed the snatch strap.

I hade not heard of the heavy bag in the middle thing, Thanks Mark!! Great tip!

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
23 Aug 2011 10:11PM
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There is also a big difference between a 'tow point' or a tie down hook, and a properly rated recovery point fitted with the appropriate hardware and high tensile bolts. Don't get 'em mixed up!!

Snatching offf a bull bar or roo bar is fraught with danger also. A 12 year old girl was killed near Kununurra a few years ago when someone attached a snatch strap to a bull bar and it was ripped clean from one of the vehicles.

kiteboy dave
QLD, 6525 posts
24 Aug 2011 12:19AM
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Comments made me think of this

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
23 Aug 2011 10:34PM
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Best idea is to have two tow points with a bridle then the snatch strap off the bridle. Then, if one point breaks, there's an instant length of slack. However, you want to hope if a point breaks that nothing goes flying. Another good idea is to put your bonnet up as a shield (for the "behind" car). Another good idea is the damper blanket (some shops sell commercial versions, or just wet towels or hessian bags etc). Another good idea is to dig the wheels out to make the bogged vehicle have minimal resistance. And never, never snatch if you're not 100% confident in the situation. It's gotta be one of the worst situations for onlookers, considering it goes from happy day 4wding with friends and family to major trauma death.

Many years ago I watched a D11 pulling a dump truck out of a heavy bog using a chain with links as long as my arm. The chain shifted under tension at one stage and a red hot chunk of metal sheared off and flew up and all the way out of the pit and off into the distance, about 50m to the right of our heads. 100m wasn't a safe watching distance, shouldn't have even been in eyesight of the situation. We were lucky.

subasurf
WA, 2154 posts
23 Aug 2011 11:40PM
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It never ceases to amaze me that people still get themselves killed during vehicle recovery.

Cassa
WA, 1305 posts
24 Aug 2011 6:07AM
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Even so called car experts get it wrong


Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
24 Aug 2011 9:34AM
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Cassa said...

Even so called car experts get it wrong



Coincidentally, as a SES member, I only learned last night at RCR training (whilst moving a vehicle in to place to be cut up) not to use the towball!!! in the past I've used a towball but definitely won't now.

Not 100% sure of the stats, but the towpoint we used last night was rated 3200kgs, strap was same, but a towball is only rated 2000kgs! A bogged car, especially a heavy vehicle can be 2500kgs+. The comment was made after a few members asked "why not just loop it over the towball?" that it could fly off & cause injury or death.

The correct procedure (or what was shown by our instructor) is to remove the towball mount from the box (if using a HD hayman reece towbar or similar), run the pin through the loop in the strap on the towing vehicle, on the vehicle being towed either tie or use a correctly rated shackle attached to the chassis. And as always - keep clear of the vehicles being towed or ropes/straps/chains/cables under tension!

We also broke a HD winch cable last week whilst doing a training exercise, which only proves that no matter how good your gear is, accidents can happen - personal safety is always the first thing to consider.

Mark _australia
WA, 22412 posts
24 Aug 2011 9:10AM
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Sailhack said...

Cassa said...

Even so called car experts get it wrong



The correct procedure (or what was shown by our instructor) is to remove the towball mount from the box (if using a HD hayman reece towbar or similar), run the pin through the loop in the strap on the towing vehicle, on the vehicle being towed either tie or use a correctly rated shackle attached to the chassis. And as always - keep clear of the vehicles being towed or ropes/straps/chains/cables under tension!



I agree but I take it one further - I don't trust the pin thru the Reece hitch it is just a bit of steel bar and is it rated? How strong is it? I would not mind betting it is not hi tensile and is designed for towing which is very different to the massive shock load when snatching.
Get a 12mm hi tensile bolt, the next one up from class 8.8 (is it 12.9?), and use that for vehicle recovery. $5 is cheap insurance

Sailhack
VIC, 5000 posts
24 Aug 2011 12:49PM
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^^^ Agree when using snatch technique, although the purpose of a snatch strap is that jarring is taken up with the strap, but forces will well exceed the weight of the vehicle being pulled depending on speed. Either way - safety & caution a must!

Ados
WA, 421 posts
24 Aug 2011 5:38PM
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you can buy a shackle that slots into your Reece Hitch (if you have one).
I think that the snatch strap or towing gear/winch etc should be the absolute last resort in getting a car out of a typical beach/sand bog.
First line of defence if driving technique and correct tire pressures. dont know how many times I have come across bogged 4wds up north that had incorrect tire pressures.
Had to use the winch one arvo because some unfortunate fella decided that he liked the soft sand at the water line and with an incoming tide he was close to losing his Tojo. No chance or time to dig that one out. We got him out but I hate using that winch. high consequences if something fails.

Mark _australia
WA, 22412 posts
24 Aug 2011 5:50PM
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Ados said...

you can buy a shackle that slots into your Reece Hitch (if you have one).
I think that the snatch strap or towing gear/winch etc should be the absolute last resort in getting a car out of a typical beach/sand bog.
First line of defence if driving technique and correct tire pressures. dont know how many times I have come across bogged 4wds up north that had incorrect tire pressures.
Had to use the winch one arvo because some unfortunate fella decided that he liked the soft sand at the water line and with an incoming tide he was close to losing his Tojo. No chance or time to dig that one out. We got him out but I hate using that winch. high consequences if something fails.



Yep and how many do you get who say 'but I let my tyres down" and they're at 25+ psi.
18 for driving on sand, and down to 12-14 if trying to get an already bogged vehicle out (but obviously put them up again once out )



laceys lane
QLD, 19803 posts
24 Aug 2011 8:13PM
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i'm looking at all this and i'm wondering what part of a car can take that punishment.

towballs no good, towbar may or may not be rated, what about the bolts that hold the towbar in place and is the chassis rated. are designated recovery points rated, are what they attached to rated etc. wouldn't the whole cassis have to be high tensile or are they generally high tensile

confused

Cassa
WA, 1305 posts
24 Aug 2011 6:36PM
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I went to harvey dam with embers of a 4wd club a few months ago , one car without diff lockers couldnt get up a really , I mean a really steep incline ,they used ALL the correct recovery gear , and the high tensile bolt STILL broke , lucky we were all prepared and out of the way. Accidents do happen , thats why there called accidents , even when all the right precautions are taken .
Recovering a bogged or stuck vehicle Can be dangerous.

youngbull
QLD, 825 posts
25 Aug 2011 12:15AM
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I go 4wd every weekend and every trip we need snatch straps with extensions and the old elect winch. We use both methods and average 5x each car each trip. only ever had 1 strap break- no damage due to the mat in the center of strap. we are all loaded 80 series at 3t min. The pin holds fine in the Haymen, the insert with D-shackle is just easier not stronger - we estimate loads above 10t easy when we have 2 cars in 2nd High trying to get a car out. Nearly all of us have put cargo barriers in to prevent the events in the original story.

Also to those unaware if you think you have tow points double check most are not connected to the chassis and you will rip the front or rear bumper clean off - have witnessed many many many times even on the tow points on the steel arb bull bars are crap- only good for very light work.

As to flatten your tyres, yes that works well but do it before you get stuck otherwise you are lowering the entire chassis further into the mud/sand ect. We run 25psi when playing in the dirt hills and generally the mud only because car becomes to low and 15psi on the sand.

My condolences the her family and friends very sad very unlucky.

wayneg
WA, 105 posts
24 Aug 2011 11:00PM
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This really is a sad story.

I recently completed a 4wd course as part of my employment and the instructors came up with a few good points for using a snatch strap.
- never use it off a tow ball, use correct recovery point.
- always use a bag or towel to dampen any recoil in the strap, simply place the bag over the strap between the two vehicles and fill the bag with sand.
- keep the bonnet up of the recovered vehicle

And lastly - if you have a Nissan Patrol swap the front tow point to the passenger side of the vehicle (a matter or undoing two bolts). Then with no passengers in the vehicle if anything breaks any loose item is likely to come through the passenger side of the front window. Seems Nissan make their vehicles for the left hand drive market - I can't believe they are given an ADR with the tow point in front of the driver.

busterwa
3777 posts
25 Aug 2011 12:56AM
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This isn't an "isolated case King" It has happened before in western Australia. Its good to post as a point of Interest and have a read at the comments they are wise !! good to give it a mention to everyone for further prevention.
I feel compassion for family friends and people involved.

pooman
WA, 293 posts
25 Aug 2011 12:49PM
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wayneg said...

This really is a sad story.

I recently completed a 4wd course as part of my employment and the instructors came up with a few good points for using a snatch strap.
- never use it off a tow ball, use correct recovery point.
- always use a bag or towel to dampen any recoil in the strap, simply place the bag over the strap between the two vehicles and fill the bag with sand.
- keep the bonnet up of the recovered vehicle




I'm glad someone posted this. It's 4WD'ing 101 but the same concepts should be applied to towing of your regular passenger vehicles.

Interestingly, according to my towbar...not even the average man should stand on it!





Mark _australia
WA, 22412 posts
25 Aug 2011 8:32PM
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^^^ no it can take more download than that - more like a tonne. It is not referring to the bar will break if you stand on it.

The ball weight (down load) should be 10% of the weight of what you are towing so to minimize hitch uptravel on bumps.

So the 75kg refers to what ball weight the car can take and still have reasonable suspension travel / suspension working (75kg that far behind the axle is equivalent of a couple of adults in the back seat and some gear in the boot.)

Thus your max safe tow is 750kg total. You can tow 1300kg but the car will not handle safely as 130kg ball weight is too much for it... and 75kg ball weight is not enough to tow 1300kg trailer on the highway.

Of course all the above is different with load levelling bars like on a caravan

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
26 Aug 2011 8:39AM
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Load levelling bars on a caravan, must be handy to be able to tow a fricken house when you have them fitted, though I gather by the way all the grey nomads drive they must have a maximum speed rating of 80km/hr on the highway???

kato
VIC, 3403 posts
27 Aug 2011 9:56AM
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Sailhack said...


The correct procedure (or what was shown by our instructor) is to remove the towball mount from the box (if using a HD hayman reece towbar or similar), run the pin through the loop in the strap on the towing vehicle, on the vehicle being towed either tie or use a correctly rated shackle attached to the chassis. And as always - keep clear of the vehicles being towed or ropes/straps/chains/cables under tension!




I use this technique all the time at work and it works and is very very safe. Don,t replace the pin with HT Bolt as it will snap rather than bend. Soft steel will take the shock load much better, thats why they use it.

Dont join two Snatch straps with a shackle,if it breaks,its a missile. Thread one loop through the other and place a arm sized green stick through the loop.If something breaks the stick will fall to the ground with very little force.
No sticks...just loop the two together...they will come apart,but it will take some effort

Shackles are fine to attach to cars just use Rated ones Not the china
specials.
I,ve used this method for cars, 4x4,tankers and been daisy chained to dozers with a snatch strap and a stick and it works. Don,t tow on the ball


Mark _australia
WA, 22412 posts
27 Aug 2011 1:09PM
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kato said...

Sailhack said...


The correct procedure (or what was shown by our instructor) is to remove the towball mount from the box (if using a HD hayman reece towbar or similar), run the pin through the loop in the strap on the towing vehicle, on the vehicle being towed either tie or use a correctly rated shackle attached to the chassis. And as always - keep clear of the vehicles being towed or ropes/straps/chains/cables under tension!




I use this technique all the time at work and it works and is very very safe. Don,t replace the pin with HT Bolt as it will snap rather than bend. Soft steel will take the shock load much better, thats why they use it.

Dont join two Snatch straps with a shackle,if it breaks,its a missile. Thread one loop through the other and place a arm sized green stick through the loop.If something breaks the stick will fall to the ground with very little force.
No sticks...just loop the two together...they will come apart,but it will take some effort

Shackles are fine to attach to cars just use Rated ones Not the china
specials.
I,ve used this method for cars, 4x4,tankers and been daisy chained to dozers with a snatch strap and a stick and it works. Don,t tow on the ball





Alternative to a stick to join two snatch straps is a rolled up newspaper or about 3 magazines rolled up. Easier to find than a bit of wood sometimes!!

But sorry mate disagree on the bolt. A 12mm class 8.8 has a tensile strenth of about 50,000 psi so in side loading using the 60% rule makes 35000psi ish.
Not that I can do the maths but you will need to generate about 20 tonnes of load at least. The snatch strap will break long before that.

Any engineers here can give the answer on that one?

But if you bend the standard Reece hitch pin it aint coming out

GypsyDrifter
WA, 2371 posts
27 Aug 2011 6:04PM
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Mark _australia said...

Rule 1: never snatch off towballs

Rule 2: always place a heavy bag over the strap so if it breaks the heavy bag in the middle kills the momentum.

I agree Waynos - they should have warnings for the clowns who think they know what they're doing




+1

paxman
WA, 8 posts
27 Aug 2011 9:57PM
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Mark _australia said...

Select to expand quote
Ados said...

you can buy a shackle that slots into your Reece Hitch (if you have one).
I think that the snatch strap or towing gear/winch etc should be the absolute last resort in getting a car out of a typical beach/sand bog.
First line of defence if driving technique and correct tire pressures. dont know how many times I have come across bogged 4wds up north that had incorrect tire pressures.
Had to use the winch one arvo because some unfortunate fella decided that he liked the soft sand at the water line and with an incoming tide he was close to losing his Tojo. No chance or time to dig that one out. We got him out but I hate using that winch. high consequences if something fails.



Yep and how many do you get who say 'but I let my tyres down" and they're at 25+ psi.
18 for driving on sand, and down to 12-14 if trying to get an already bogged vehicle out (but obviously put them up again once out )




I do alot of 4WD'ing on the beach in summer & run between 12 psi & 14 psi.
At that psi i can drive on the beach in 2WD.

wespyyl
WA, 118 posts
29 Aug 2011 9:22PM
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Mark _australia said...

kato said...

Sailhack said...


The correct procedure (or what was shown by our instructor) is to remove the towball mount from the box (if using a HD hayman reece towbar or similar), run the pin through the loop in the strap on the towing vehicle, on the vehicle being towed either tie or use a correctly rated shackle attached to the chassis. And as always - keep clear of the vehicles being towed or ropes/straps/chains/cables under tension!




I use this technique all the time at work and it works and is very very safe. Don,t replace the pin with HT Bolt as it will snap rather than bend. Soft steel will take the shock load much better, thats why they use it.

Dont join two Snatch straps with a shackle,if it breaks,its a missile. Thread one loop through the other and place a arm sized green stick through the loop.If something breaks the stick will fall to the ground with very little force.
No sticks...just loop the two together...they will come apart,but it will take some effort

Shackles are fine to attach to cars just use Rated ones Not the china
specials.
I,ve used this method for cars, 4x4,tankers and been daisy chained to dozers with a snatch strap and a stick and it works. Don,t tow on the ball





Alternative to a stick to join two snatch straps is a rolled up newspaper or about 3 magazines rolled up. Easier to find than a bit of wood sometimes!!

But sorry mate disagree on the bolt. A 12mm class 8.8 has a tensile strenth of about 50,000 psi so in side loading using the 60% rule makes 35000psi ish.
Not that I can do the maths but you will need to generate about 20 tonnes of load at least. The snatch strap will break long before that.

Any engineers here can give the answer on that one?

But if you bend the standard Reece hitch pin it aint coming out


A 10mm grade 8.8 bolt will break from shear stress at around 4.8tonnes.

I use a 2nd reece hitch with no tow ball on it. The hole for the towball is just big enough to fit a pin for a 5.5 ton rated shackle through.

If you put the steel pin from a reece hitch through the strap it can bend the pin and it'll be a bitch to get out.

jsnfok
WA, 899 posts
31 Aug 2011 6:20PM
Thumbs Up

SLOWLY, always as SLOW AS YOU NEED TO

prayers and thoughts go out to her family



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"Tow ball kill lady in Geraldton" started by king of the point