I am interested in trying a flysurfer hybrid kite with one of my wingboards. I have a Naish hover carbon in sizes 140, 110, 85 and 50 liters. I have a kiting background so I'm covered there. I also have a 8 meter F1 Strike CWC wing for low wind winging. I want to go out in those really low wind days that even the 8 meter wing will not work.
What I need help with is choosing the correct size kite. I will be kneel starting the wingboard which will not require as much pull as the typical kiteboard start. I'm trying to decide between the 11.5, 9.5, 7.5 and 5.5 in the flysurfer hybrid kite. So I'm guessing I would need the smallest kite that would get me foiling in the lightest wind. But.... since I'm using the kneel start on a wingboard, maybe I don't need the 11.5 or the 9.5? Maybe the 11.5 or the 9.5 would be needed for that initial grunt to get up on the board on a regular kiteboard start but not the the kneel start. BTW I weigh 175 lbs, around 79 kilos.
Hope I was clear on the question:)
Here's Tucker explaining it all....
I use 8m p4 a lot in lite sub 10knts.
when learning used a Old Airush Sector 60 (45 or so litres) with 1550 foil - that combo did 6knts and up
Yet to try kite on my ding board. (95 litres)
Line length would need to be short so sub 18m.
The foil board is held on its side for starts as all are sinkers.
In lite winds, use the power stroke roles u up onto a moving board then work the kite to get on foil.
Cheers
AP
If you want light wind you have to go big. Too small and you'll be constantly working the kite to keep going. I had that fun buying into the Peak hype - I could waterstart pretty low but my foil wasn't efficient enough to park and ride so I'd be constantly searching for power to keep riding.
I'd want a minimum of 9.5m for anything under 10knots and even then you are probably only pushing down to maybe 7knots. I've seen someone in NZ with a Peak4 13m on a wingboard riding in a claimed 4 knots but he was probably all of 50kg
Maybe look at the Gin Marabou2? Its a bit higher aspect so should give you more power when you are cruising and better upwind angle.
I do mainly wingfoiling, but last summer i bought also 13m2 Peak 5 for those ultralight days, below 8knots where wingfoiling is not possible. I'm around 90kg with wetsuit. We don't have accessible beaches for launching kites where i live so kiting days were limited to those days i would drive further where it is possible to kite. So i did got about 7 sessions with the kite. I'm an ex- twintip kiter, no previous kitefoiling experience. But with kiting and wingfoil experience, i was able to ride & gybe from first try.
I was using wingfoilboards with 60l, 75l and 95l. With all of those, it was not possible do to a traditional waterstart as the boards are so floaty that they don't want to float sideways but rather flat. So i did a kneeling start. As soon as the kite was able to fly, i had enough powert to start riding. Wind i measured with handheld meter on ground level. Peak 5 13m2 was flying when meter showed 4 knots. Below that and it would fall from sky. So my limit to go to water was 5knots, because with 4 knots there is a big change that wind fluctuate little bit down and then you are swimming.
At 5 knots the kite won't give you any stabilisation, so i found -30liter board tricky as it would be hard to kneestart it as it would be so corky 30cm underwater.
When i got to my knees i would sine the kite to get little speed and stabilisation and then pop to my feet. After that couple of pumps with the legs and up it goes. I did try also downlooping the kite but in that light wind i felt that it was better to just sine the kite to get more constant pull and rather pump up to foil.
I was using 1900cm2 low aspect, thick foil that would get up at walking speed. When i was riding, there were plenty of power to keep going and lulls in wind didn't bother that much. Jibes are tricky as there is no margin for error. I was contemplating between 11m2 and 13m2 peak. On hindsight, the 11m2 would probably been better as it would have been quicker to turn and generating power.
Next summer i'm planning to try the 13m2 peak with ultrashort lines, 5-10m to be able to use our local beach. As i'm not waterstarting so don't need big powerstroke at the start, it might work as park and ride style option with pumping the board.
I tried using 10 metre lines on with a Concept Air Firefly 8 metre and my 5 foot 9 inch 130 litre wingboard and a 1700 cm foil. I am 80 kg. The wind was quite light well under 10 knots but not sure how much below. I could get on the board and knee start easily and could cruise upwind off the foil but could not get up on foil as the power stroke was to small. The kite flew fine but just could not generate the necessary power. I have gone back to 16 metre lines and that works fine. When I could not get going with the large wing board I went back in and changed to a 51 litre board and a 9 metre Firefly and 21 metre lines (it is a little higher aspect and has more power spike). I was able get the board on it's side using a foot hook. First dive gets me up on the board and the second onto foil. Same wind as the with the larger board only this time a 1500 cm foil that was lower aspect. So for me the short lines did not work in the light winds.
10m PLKB Nova Ultralight (1.5kgs) is as big as I want to go for a foiling kite, it's slow enough. Paired with a HPS930 wing and pocket board I can foil in 6-9kts. However it's pretty boring, just cruising up and down, nice sometimes to get out when the sea is calm and green but it's not super challenging. I'm nearly at the point where if a 9m single strut and T1 foil won't get me riding then I won't bother... just go for a swim or something.
Strat - if you're floating around on a huge ding board then maybe the 7.5 would work. Certainly faster looping would make up for a lot of raw grunt from the larger sizes. Have a read on the kf thread - feelings are mixed regarding the Hybrid. If you can fly without crashing then a 6m peak might be better and half the price.
I ending up getting a 6, 8 and 11 peak5. I'm going tomorrow to an open field to fly the 6 and get used to it. It should be interesting as I set up the B-safe line today and it was more confusing than I thought... I think I have everything correct:) I was marveled at the construction, design, and how incredibly light these kites are. I can see why they are relatively expensive.
Do you think flying with 21 meter or 14 meter line setup would be the safest for flying in a field while getting used to the 6 meter? I know in my twin tip days and Lei's, I would have been apprehensive about flying a kite in a field.
I've flown my new-to-me 5m Peak5 in a grassy field to get used to it. I'm not sure of your exact concern, though depending on the wind you can easily generate enough pull on a loop to drag yourself! You can also just let go and everything will be fine. I was flying with my usual 20m lines.
Hi Strat919.
I struggle to see the point of using a wing board with a kite. A simple cheap kite foil board will make kitefoiling much easier. In fact a board with minimal volume will make kitefoiling easier by providing more resistance against the pull of the kite as it sits deeper in the water. This is important in light winds as any drifting towards the kite reduces your effective wind speed. The other advantage of a small kitefoil board is much better pumpability which will help a lot in light winds especially as I assume you are using large wingfoil front wings.
The Peaks are great kites for light wind foiling but if you're learning to kitefoil with them, especially with a large and voluminous board, I think you'll drop them and have to swim in and reset. The Hybrids will help in this situation for relaunch but when you've got your skills up the Peaks are great with a lot of controllable power for their size. I use both and find them quite similar to use with more top end with the Hybrid and more bottom end grunt with the Peaks. I was out yesterday with a 5m Peak5, my light wind kite 
, in winds around 6-8 knots. Had to work the kite hard in the lulls when getting out of the water but once foiling the apparent wind made it easy on a high aspect 840 sq cm foil. Gybing was challenging as timing was critical to keep line tension to avoid kite collapse and get the board turned quickly to keep foiling. I weigh 67kg which helps.
As for flying a 6m Peak5 in a field, as long as it's not over 20 knots you'll be fine. Use common sense and allow plenty of room. Use the 21m lines and remove the B-Safe lines for water use and some land use as they'll only create unnecessary tangles as they are so fine. You really only need them for snow kiting so you can stop the kite pulling you off a cliff or similar. Remember when you crash a Peak it collapses with no power or structure and will stay that way in water unless you take immediate action to relaunch.
Keep your bridle lines neat and keep the ends of the bridle lines/or bar if you leave it connected, away from the kite bridles and you'll have a kite which is faster to set up or take down than anyone else.
I agree with Dr surf's comments; I was also dubious about whether a wing-foil board could offer any advantage for those really light-wind starts, given that a low-volume kitefoil board can be fully submerged during the waterstart, making it easier to get your body upright + over the board, even if knee-deep in water. Once you are standing and moving forward, its magic how the board will climb out of the water and onto foil with a little pumping of foil and kite. (Using Peak4 11m on the lightest days.) I can't imagine how you'd be able to climb out of the water onto the wing-foil board while keeping your kite flying in those really light conditions!
Thanks for all the inputs:) I'll probably pick up a dedicated kite foil board. I'm still going to attempt my Naish 50 liter board when the weather warms up. It is 4'6" and 21 inches wide.
Here is a guy water starting a 60 liter Naish board like mine, but 10 liters more.
I have not tried kiting with a wingfoil board, but I am working towards it. I have tried every other combination I could.
9' SUP with kite foil. Hard to keep the kite in the air while climbing onto the board. Once on it was easy to ride off and stupidly fun foiling along on this huge board. The only problem is that when I eventually fell I had the problem of climbing back on the board while trying to keep the kite flying. It would have been easy enough in stronger wind, but then it would have been easier using a normal kite foil board.
Various kite foil boards with big low aspect surf foil. A bit hard to stop over foiling during the water start. Had to have both feet up near the nose. Once up it was very slow but again stupid good fun. Able to go fairly fast once I got the hang of it. Also again, much easier to use a normal kite foil board and foil and just send the kite.
Kite foil board with higher aspect wing foil. Higher aspect foil less prone to over foiling so able to water start, gain speed and ride off. A bit cumbersome having this huge blade hanging off the bottom of the board. Again, easier to just use a normal board, foil, kite combination.
I bought an 8m Peak and had one go with it with a kite foil and board. It's a bit gutless underpowered so no real chance of water starting, but awesome at staying in the air. Very easy to board drag out from the beach. At one point I got stuck with not enough wind to water start but was able to lie on the board and drag most of the way back upwind to the starting beach.
I am intending to try this kite with a bigger SUP foil board and big wing foil to see what happens. I should be able to climb onto the board, get to my feet and sail along with no real problems. Not sure about sending the kite to generate power to get on the foil. My biggest foil just comes up with a single leg pump if there's any kind of decent breeze so it will be interesting to try.
Gorgo.... please post back with your further results:) I also like to experiment just for kicks
Select to expand quoteGorgo said:
I bought an 8m Peak and had one go with it with a kite foil and board. It's a bit gutless underpowered so no real chance of water starting, but awesome at staying in the air.
I've never been unable to waterstart with the 11m Peak4, as long as there's enough wind for it to fly. It certainly wants to stay in the air (although I have found its lower limit a couple of times when it fell back onto beach right after launch!) Getting it to turn quickly enough in gybes in the really light breezes can be a challenge, and maybe an 8m might've been more ideal for my weight of around 70kg, due to the (probably) quicker turning and also the ability to build apparent wind once foiling. 11m can get a bit overpowered in smallest of gusts.
Also, maybe somewhat counter-intuitively, I don't think bigger foils necessarily take off any easier... I'm guessing that's due to having extra drag? Can keep flying at low speeds once they're up, but just need a bit more grunt to get up in the first place. (Just comparing Axis K-Series 535mm vs Slingshot Hoverglide H2.)
Select to expand quoteStrat919 said:
Any recommendations on what size for a light wind kite foil board? Also volume.
If your foil itself floats, the volume of a kite foil board is pretty much irrelevant! If not, you'll want to make sure its buoyant enough to float your foil.
Its not often that board size matters, as we're really riding the foil. Hardest /most important thing in light winds is keeping the kite in the air, or relaunching if it falls. Can't see board size helping with that.
My first foilboard was an old twintip, modified, which only just floated with the heavy Hoverglide attached. Less volume can actually be an advantage when waterstarting in waves, as it doesn't get pushed around so much by the waves. You can actually start much like a twintip waterstart; the board sinks under your feet until you get moving, then gently lifts up. Only downside is that you need deeper water so as not to hit bottom.
Select to expand quoteSandee said..Strat919 said:
Any recommendations on what size for a light wind kite foil board? Also volume.
If your foil itself floats, the volume of a kite foil board is pretty much irrelevant! If not, you'll want to make sure its buoyant enough to float your foil.
Its not often that board size matters, as we're really riding the foil. Hardest /most important thing in light winds is keeping the kite in the air, or relaunching if it falls. Can't see board size helping with that.
My first foilboard was an old twintip, modified, which only just floated with the heavy Hoverglide attached. Less volume can actually be an advantage when waterstarting in waves, as it doesn't get pushed around so much by the waves. You can actually start much like a twintip waterstart; the board sinks under your feet until you get moving, then gently lifts up. Only downside is that you need deeper water so as not to hit bottom.
I will be flat water exclusively at first. I still haven't flown a peak5 yet and have no idea what to expect in light winds... only flown lei kites. I have the 6,8, and 11. I took the 6 meter to a field today but never got to fly it as the wind never got above 2 or 3 miles per hour. Can't wait to fly a peak to see how well they will remain flying in lighter winds. Like I said above, I'm mainly winging and just want to kite foil when there is not enough wind. I figure I'm going to be doing some swimming with a peak... but that's ok. It's all fun
Select to expand quote I took the 6 meter to a field today but never got to fly it as the wind never got above 2 or 3 miles per hour. Can't wait to fly a peak to see how well they will remain flying in lighter winds. Like I said above, I'm mainly winging and just want to kite foil when there is not enough wind. I figure I'm going to be doing some swimming with a peak... but that's ok. It's all fun
Yeah, 2 or 3 mph might be pushing it a bit, but I suspect that with practice you'd be able to fly one on land in that sort of breeze! Different matter on water, of course, when you start drifting downwind, and aren't able to step backwards to create apparent wind.
Getting a bit of land-based practice in the light breezes should help lots in reducing future swims, as will the flat water. both my swim-ins with Peaks have been caused by waves breaking on the kite before it could relaunch in light wind. On flatter water they can touch down and relaunch better than you'd think! Yes, it is all fun!
Select to expand quoteSandee said..I took the 6 meter to a field today but never got to fly it as the wind never got above 2 or 3 miles per hour. Can't wait to fly a peak to see how well they will remain flying in lighter winds. Like I said above, I'm mainly winging and just want to kite foil when there is not enough wind. I figure I'm going to be doing some swimming with a peak... but that's ok. It's all fun
Yeah, 2 or 3 mph might be pushing it a bit, but I suspect that with practice you'd be able to fly one on land in that sort of breeze! Different matter on water, of course, when you start drifting downwind, and aren't able to step backwards to create apparent wind.
Getting a bit of land-based practice in the light breezes should help lots in reducing future swims, as will the flat water. both my swim-ins with Peaks have been caused by waves breaking on the kite before it could relaunch in light wind. On flatter water they can touch down and relaunch better than you'd think! Yes, it is all fun!
I went to a field today and the wind was about 2 gusting 20 mph. The wind was shifting over 90 degrees randomly. I would get the peak positioned correctly... by the time I could get the chicken loop and safety line hooked in, the kite would be all turned over and disoriented. I managed to get it to fly twice, but then the wind would die suddenly and the kite dropped....lol. Packed up and left. Guess I'm going to have to find a bigger field and a better day!
Select to expand quoteStrat919 said..Sandee said..I took the 6 meter to a field today but never got to fly it as the wind never got above 2 or 3 miles per hour. Can't wait to fly a peak to see how well they will remain flying in lighter winds. Like I said above, I'm mainly winging and just want to kite foil when there is not enough wind. I figure I'm going to be doing some swimming with a peak... but that's ok. It's all fun
Yeah, 2 or 3 mph might be pushing it a bit, but I suspect that with practice you'd be able to fly one on land in that sort of breeze! Different matter on water, of course, when you start drifting downwind, and aren't able to step backwards to create apparent wind.
Getting a bit of land-based practice in the light breezes should help lots in reducing future swims, as will the flat water. both my swim-ins with Peaks have been caused by waves breaking on the kite before it could relaunch in light wind. On flatter water they can touch down and relaunch better than you'd think! Yes, it is all fun!
I went to a field today and the wind was about 2 gusting 20 mph. The wind was shifting over 90 degrees randomly. I would get the peak positioned correctly... by the time I could get the chicken loop and safety line hooked in, the kite would be all turned over and disoriented. I managed to get it to fly twice, but then the wind would die suddenly and the kite dropped....lol. Packed up and left. Guess I'm going to have to find a bigger field and a better day!
Yeah, those shifty winds can be a nightmare for launching! Several small weights placed along both leading edge and trailing edge help a lot in preventing turning over and tangling of the kite, and just fall off as the kite peels up from the ground. Just handfuls of sand on the beach, but not so simple for you in a field! Hope you'll get a better day for it real soon.
Select to expand quoteIWantToFly said..
I've flown my new-to-me 5m Peak5 in a grassy field to get used to it. I'm not sure of your exact concern, though depending on the wind you can easily generate enough pull on a loop to drag yourself! You can also just let go and everything will be fine. I was flying with my usual 20m lines.
Hi, what's the wind range of your 5m? How do you feel this kite?
Fwiw i have a 5m peak4 and it gets me going in sub 10kts with a 90cm axis tray. For light wind gybes i downloop it, works a treat.
I have an 11m peak4 as well but have only really used it on the snow. The 5 is pretty close to a one kite quiver. They don't have a lot of 'punch' and the start can be hard work, but i have never bothered trying with my wingboard.
