Hello guys,
I purchased a second hand F-one Diablo 4 recently ( 9 meter ), to try to get used to the handling etc of the foil kites before possibly make the transition over, however I had an issue trying to get the kite to launch correctly.
I found that the wing tips just would not inflate, when the center section was inflated..... even if they appeared inflated as I was peeling it off the beach, once the center section filled - the wingtips tended to collapse and flap around, and fly it around the window / bar in /. bar out, i just could not get the tips to inflate.
Is this a common issue in certain wind conditions, or does it sound like it could be a line length problem as I am using a different brand bar, ( which I think is set up with equal length lines when the bar is fully powered up. )
Any advice appreciated ..... Nick
Hi Nick, you have struck the problem that many people will face buying older used foil kites, bridle shrinkage. The tip bridles are really lightly loaded and tend to shrink over time compared to the centre bridles. This means although the centre of the kite is flying right, the tips are at a lower angle of attack and tucking under.
If it was a Flysurfer, I would say do the long mixer test, this will help the problem, but I have no idea if the Diablo has adjustable bridles. A short mixer test and adding 2 cm pigtails to the out board A row normally helps the problem, though every kite is different and may need different adjustments. See if someone is foil kite knowledgeable in your area.
Ok, Thanks, I have the diagram about bridle lengths, so I think I will get my measuring tape out and see if I can find any disparities.
If the lines shrink, I am guessing they can be stretched back to the tight length also?
Yes you can stretch them, but they will shrink back over time. I add small pigtails, so hopefully it doesn't go out of trim again. Here is a vid that might help.
I checked with the Diablo manual for the depower system, and the throws all seem the correct length / in the correct orientation, and the A/B/C 3 connectors are all in line....
Is the wingtip line shrinkage in the A1, A/2 levels normally?
Hey dachopper,
Unlike inflato's, the ram airs need to be fully powered up when launching. Set trim to full power and sheet in on launch once it gets to zenith, you can then also do quick shakes left and right at full power on the bar this opens the tips usually. An old kite will be far more cantankerous than the later model ones like FS Souls and even Sonic 3's. You can also do a partial inflation on the beach to make the launch a lot quicker, safer and easier. I normally do this in extreme low wind, and extreme high wind to make the launch much more predictable.
It could also be a rigging tuning issue and also possibly porosity of the canopy fabric depending on the age and use it's had. There are products you can apply to reduce porosity but they aren't easily attainable and are expensive. Personally, I wouldn't go to the expense on an old kite but if you got it cheap enough and its in OK condition?!?
I have tried to tune older ram airs for some customers to some degree of success in many cases, but not in every case.
I'm happy to help if we can both find time that mutually suits. My time is usually limited but I'm sure we can find some time.
DM
As Darren points out 'shaking' the sheeted in bar left/right is what you need to do to inflate the wing tips. Do it continuously until the tips open up, which could be a few seconds or as much as a minute. Different kites will exhibit that effect to varying degrees but if the tips are going to inflate shaking the bar is the way
How did you get on Nick? Another thing to check is that race kites often need a bit more stall on the bar, rather than being all lines equal at fully powered setting. One of the reasons you sometimes need this extra stall is to help inflate the kite by sheeting in quite a lot during launch, but even if the bar has no stall you can also pull the leaders to inflate the kites, maybe one side at a time to get the tips inflated. You didn't mention if the problem persists once the kites is finally inflated, or did you never get it inflated at all and landed the kite before it inflated?
As a side point a Diablo V4 9m is potentially a very tricky kite to learn about flying foil kites with. Race kites are tricky. Diablo v4's are tricker than most race kites and 9m is probably the trickiest size Diablo v4 :) I ride an 11m Diablo V5 and it behaves well but I was told the stability and inflation etc was a huge step up from the V4 and have also been told the 9m even in the V5 can be a bit "exciting".
I have not figured out how to self launch in moderate/ strong wind. If anyone can provide advice. My problem seems to be i have kite positioned with tip folded over, rest of the kite is downwind flat, not particularly inflated. Then I try and slowly tension the downwind tip to peel it off the beach, but it is too twitchy and shoots fwd/back. I dont know if I should be trying a rapid yank to get it airborne before it can fold, or i should try centre of the power zone downwind. Bridles are good, I managed to end up with the kite downwind leading edge down and it inflated correctly, I was just able to reverse it a little off the ground, but I wasn't game since I was on the beach to reverse it all the way and then release it. Please guys ... self launch moderate wind.. how are you doing it. ? Obviously I can just launch dead downwind... am I going to die?
Moderate wind launching is always a pain with a foil kite. You have the 2 ideas that people like (and one that I've only ever read about).
1. Hotlaunch completely uninflated. The advantage here is that the pull is weak until the kite gets mostly inflated. Then it will pull you downwind a bit. The downside is you have relatively little steering control until the kite inflates.
2. Side launch. Needs to be mostly inflated before you start. Precise footwork needed to avoid the kite folding over and needing to abort the launch. However. Can allow you a very controlled launch with little downwind pull. Downside is it needs careful setup and execution (e.g. as the kite raises you need to step towards the kite and then upwind to avoid it dragging on the beach, then downwind again as the kite fills more and you get ready to launch)
3. Launch with a helper. Needs an experienced helper but they can inflate a section at a time until the kite is fully inflated and then you can do the normal thumbs up to launch.
I normally go for #2 but I'm talking kind of 25 knots on a 10m soul winds so not overpowered conditions. The launch is normally fine as you can just double check everything. The self landing is the bit that requires big balls if you don't want 20 minutes of bridle untangling.
Edit. There's a flysurfer video showing a lot of the prep steps for option 2 that helps a lot. I can dig it out if you want it
Hi Nick,
Yes mate, slightly over sheet the kite to "Open" the canopy, but not so much that it starts to stall and fly backwards, it's a delicate balance. Vigorously "shaking" the bar will generally open a stubborn wing tip.
If the tip ends up through the bridle and wont open, Put the collapsed tip on the side of the window closest to the ground, then whilst keeping pressure on the inflated upper wingtip to keep the kite at 45 degrees, grab the leader well up the line on the collapsed side and give it a mighty quick jerk. Repeat as often as needed. It will usually eventually come out. Once you get the hang of it, you can actually do this whilst riding.
DM
Ok....
Got both kites out self launch, the 9 meter diablo4, then the 15 VMG. wind was about 10 kts, then increased to 16 when I put the 15 meter up and realized I needed more depower throw.... then went back to an 11 but wind was pretty ordinary, about 8 - 18 kts.
I ended up peeling it off the ground within about 3 seconds, the VMG went straight into the right shape, but the diablo had two wings collapsing.... hold it in the window like the video then yank the side lines and walla ! Now I understand why tacking is so easy on these things compared to LEI.
Hey guys,
pre inflating foil kites in super light and also strong conditions can make launching much easier and less prone to issues.
I bought a small battery leaf blower to aid on drying wet kites and also simplifying launch. I have Makita tools so the Makita leaf blower was only about $100 at that time and is a total joy.
the Flysurfer kites especially stay inflated on the ground for ages (20 mins) giving you ample time to put the tool away, lock the car, put on sunscreen and go launch.
DM