Select to expand quoteJB said...
- The Industry needs a few middle men, trust me.
Why is that?
Care to elaborate?
Some of us prefer knowledge to blind trust.
Kiterboy, not a topic i would go in depth in on a forum. I know that's not the answer you want, but I wish to leave it there.
BTW, how bout that PIVOT! 
I think ive heard enough about the pivot for now till its out ........................................
Select to expand quoteJB said...
Kiterboy, not a topic i would go in depth in on a forum. I know that's not the answer you want, but I wish to leave it there.
BTW, how bout that PIVOT!
But you brought it up.
It's actually a serious question; I'm sure a lot of people would be interested.
I thought middlemen were there just to make a profit for themselves, kinda like 'flipping' and hence driving up the prices of goods.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said...
I thought middlemen were there just to make a profit for themselves, kinda like 'flipping' and hence driving up the prices of goods.
I thought everybody were there just to make a profit for themselves, kinda like "working" and hence driving up the prices of goods.
Who isn't a middleman, performing a job, and then getting paid for it, which then gets added to the cost of things?
And what's with the two people complaining about Australia being located in "Christmas Island" and "Japan" .. surely you guys have enough problems in your own regions, without pointing your finger at Australians?
Back to kiting... 
The Pivot looks great, and I'm looking forward to having a go on one - it's good to have some new tech, as kite design seems to have plateued.
Do any of you kite experts think that the design is radical enough to offer something new?
Select to expand quotebardunyah said...kiterboy said...
I thought middlemen were there just to make a profit for themselves, kinda like 'flipping' and hence driving up the prices of goods.
I thought everybody were there just to make a profit for themselves, kinda like "working" and hence driving up the prices of goods.
Who isn't a middleman, performing a job, and then getting paid for it, which then gets added to the cost of things?
And what's with the two people complaining about Australia being located in "Christmas Island" and "Japan" .. surely you guys have enough problems in your own regions, without pointing your finger at Australians?
Back to kiting...
The Pivot looks great, and I'm looking forward to having a go on one - it's good to have some new tech, as kite design seems to have plateued.
Do any of you kite experts think that the design is radical enough to offer something new?
Working to produce a product and getting paid for it is completely different.
Flipping does not add value or contribute to the production.
Flipping is buying and selling purely to make a profit with no benefit to anyone but the 'flipper'.
Quickly rolling towards page 3 of wide ranging waffle.
the only person who has ridden one is a recently returned, hugely biased middleman. JB... I liked you better when you were under the North umbrella. You espouse tremendous experience, have a large audience reading your posts and have done a horrible job at reviewing the gear none of us yet have access to. You are not here to contribute to our community, you are here to make money from it.
Maybe we can have a pimping section for sponsors who want to talk about products we don't have access to?
I am not buying a pivot out of principle, because I want to discourage this farce from happening again. Lucky there are plenty of other wave orientated kites sub $2k.
Good SW breeze forecast for Sunday. Will James/gear alliance chime in if Naish demos will be available at boat harbour/Wanda?
JB, your ideals are costly and unproductive. Pivot 12m $2499 ,way overpriced. Try Switch nitro 3 12m $1151 that is a saving of $1348 . My back pocket is way more important than putting food on your plate . Your attitude and this post may only serve to push more of us from local purchases to online purchases.
Select to expand quoteJB said...
As I said, not a forum subject.
Are you a gambling man?
JB
I don't mind a bit of a bet; already got my money on whether you clarify the statement you made or not.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said...
Flipping is buying and selling purely to make a profit with no benefit to anyone but the 'flipper'.
Then there's the interesting situation of the manufacturer selling to a distributer who then sells to retailers... and the distributer also retails to the public. Online too, no less. It's a bit of a bloody mess eh...
Shop owners would understand the importance of a middle man. try owning a shop and getting factory support from a factory in thailand.. they need support guys in the country to carry spares, do warranty assessments etc.
i dont think JB's wage is inflating kites to $2400. ive seen the wholesale invoices shops pay for big brand kites, sups etc they are not cheap like in the old days.. the shops dont make squillions on em. the big price tags shouldnt be pinned on the middle man like jb. . look at the world tours and launch parties etc the manufacturers throw... thats got to be a few hunge per item sold.
im not defending high kite costs, as i for one havent owned a new kite in over 10 years.... i cant bring myself to lose $1000 in 6 months!!
Select to expand quoteJB said...
Kamikuza, when you get the bar in your hands, you'll see and feel the difference.
Still think the floats look similar
Select to expand quoteskebstebamal said...
Shop owners would understand the importance of a middle man. try owning a shop and getting factory support from a factory in thailand.. they need support guys in the country to carry spares, do warranty assessments etc.
i dont think JB's wage is inflating kites to $2400. ive seen the wholesale invoices shops pay for big brand kites, sups etc they are not cheap like in the old days.. the shops dont make squillions on em. the big price tags shouldnt be pinned on the middle man like jb. . look at the world tours and launch parties etc the manufacturers throw... thats got to be a few hunge per item sold.
im not defending high kite costs, as i for one havent owned a new kite in over 10 years.... i cant bring myself to lose $1000 in 6 months!!
How does Switch do it?
Can't be that hard to have a farang in the factory to deal with customer support... or send all requests through HQ in ooh say Hong Kong. Be interesting to know if "spares" sit around in boxes somewhere or are made just-in-time. I suspect the former, probably stockpiled according to historical demand... as I now can't get pigtails or bar parts etc for my 2011 kites unless they're interchangeable with the 2012 bits.
Warranty assessments... heh. Not touching that one.
Why buy new anyway,there are some super bargains to be had on the Buy and Sell section of this very site. Let someone else stupid enough buy a new kite then buy it off them for $1500 dollars less the next year when they are lured in by another crock of **** pimping campaign that makes them believe the new season kite will automatically make them become the next hottest rider in the sport.
Obviously companies need to bring out new gear etc to remain profitable but honestly does the year to year improvements that they claim warrant so much pimping. I cant honestly say that any of the current model kites I have ridden are significantly better than some of the kites I have ridden from 4 years ago.
Buying a new kite is pretty similar to buying a new car. You make the purchase, you drive it around thinking that everyones looking at you but they aren't, you drive it so cautiously because its cost you so much you don't want to break it, 2 weeks later you realise you haven't really got anything better than the one you traded in for buggar all except a burning hole in your trousers.
Select to expand quoteskebstebamal said...
Shop owners would understand the importance of a middle man. try owning a shop and getting factory support from a factory in thailand.. they need support guys in the country to carry spares, do warranty assessments etc.
i dont think JB's wage is inflating kites to $2400. ive seen the wholesale invoices shops pay for big brand kites, sups etc they are not cheap like in the old days.. the shops dont make squillions on em. the big price tags shouldnt be pinned on the middle man like jb. . look at the world tours and launch parties etc the manufacturers throw... thats got to be a few hunge per item sold.
im not defending high kite costs, as i for one havent owned a new kite in over 10 years.... i cant bring myself to lose $1000 in 6 months!!
Shhhh!
It's not a subject for a forum, there's no place here to discuss kiting and the industry behind it.
How much you spend, says as much about yourself, as it does about the kite.
If Naish (or any brand) have introduced something new, with the constant power through the turns, fast turning and drift, I'm interested.
Cars, bikes, motorbikes all continue to evolve and get better every year. To believe that kites are as good as they will ever be is a bit silly.
I've read the blurb. Looking at the design, the combination of the tapered leading edge, three-struts, and segmented construction - although at first look might seem "meh", but it might just make a big difference.
Surely these things combined with more advanced construction techniques are an improvement over last year? It looks pretty light.
There are demos around at the moment, so maybe some of you are being a bit harsh on JB from where I stand, in terms of plugging a kite that no one can ride yet?? You can, if you wish. Then make a call on whether you think it's an improvement, different, whatever. I personally think kites are getting better every year, especially the 2014 batch in general Relatively.
They are also getting to that price threshold that starts making you wonder.....is it worth losing 50 percent of that in a Season of riding.
It's all a bit negative nancy at the moment...big brother is fcking you over crap...get the stoke back fellas.
If I buy a kite. I buy it to ride. Not to sell. What do I care what the resale value is.
So I'll buy a new kite and ride it into the ground.
Usually only takes a couple of seasons anyway.
Most people I know who buy 2nd hand kites, just end up buying a whole heap of problems.
Why buy new? You know how many hours the gear has done, you know it's going to be perfect, warranty etc. The obvious things, I would have thought.
Note I said "buy new" not "pay RRP"... you *can* get some great deals on old stock or even used, but you're giving up warranty and some peace of mind. I've only had one used kite be a slightly bad deal, so I wasn't too bothered... but my new-bought kites are still going strong(er).
Always a trade-off...
I just bought one from the states. Online.
5 days I'll have it in my hands..
Easy As. New bar too.
Select to expand quoteeppo said...
maybe some of you are being a bit harsh on JB from where I stand...
It's all a bit negative nancy at the moment...big brother is fcking you over crap...get the stoke back fellas.
"Negative Nancy"?? Noted 'mate'.
Most of us around here are capable of making our own minds up instead of being spoon fed this BS!
On all points, I completely agree with what NathanG said. I'll not be going near a Pivot either, out of principle. I wonder how many didn't go near the Dice for the same reasons…
Leave the 'teacher' in the classroom eppo. I don't need to be talked at!!
The responses you're complaining about are called free speech.
Select to expand quoteSubculture said... eppo said...
maybe some of you are being a bit harsh on JB from where I stand...
It's all a bit negative nancy at the moment...big brother is fcking you over crap...get the stoke back fellas.
The responses you're complaining about are called free speech.
Exactly....
Select to expand quotetheDoctor said...
If I buy a kite. I buy it to ride. Not to sell. What do I care what the resale value is.
So I'll buy a new kite and ride it into the ground.
Usually only takes a couple of seasons anyway.
Most people I know who buy 2nd hand kites, just end up buying a whole heap of problems.
When your paying 2500 a piece you would hope that they would last a couple of seasons. Theres a difference between buying quality used gear and cheap heaps of **** that have been thrashed.
You're in luck I am selling a couple old kites to get the pivot. Like I said, for a wave/freeride kite. It goes pretty good. If you show loyalty to your kite shop you should be rewarded. If not go to a better shop. Or get one from OS and stop bitching. Naish quality is second to none and I've tried a few.
Select to expand quoteeppo said...
Exactly....
I'll not play your misquote or 'out of context' games. You've got your post count and fan club here and on KF. Stay safe and keep living in your fantasy world.
OR
Let me know when you can make it up to Perth or I'll meet you half way in SB. We can finish the discussion in the real world.
Select to expand quoteterryzarmzof said...
You're in luck I am selling a couple old kites to get the pivot. Like I said, for a wave/freeride kite. It goes pretty good. If you show loyalty to your kite shop you should be rewarded. If not go to a better shop. Or get one from OS and stop bitching. Naish quality is second to none and I've tried a few.
why not trade them at your local shop that you speak so highly of
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said...
How does Switch do it?
its easy if you don't sell anything.
Man these threads go waaaayyy off topic really quickly.....
From a simple look at this....
To a what's your affiliation.....
To a product canning.....
To a personal canning....
Then to a lets meet for what sounds like the threat of a fight....
When replying to things with text based communication remember there is no possibility that people can 'feel' implied emotion or contextual body language or tone so a simple comment can be read a lot of ways depending on your mood.
After reading a few pages of this thread and laughing at most of it, I couldn't help but picture either pimply kids or grumpy old men or testosterone fuelled 20 something's all honestly believing that they are just 'that good' that there opinion would influence people.
It's the only problem with forums and Facebook and the internets and being on the line, people type things that they just wouldn't have the balls to say to anyone face to face.
If you feel aggressive and fired up, go off to a boxing or karate class and learn just how little you can actually back yourself with your macho rubbish there.
And I suggest that if you happen to be in Melbourne, come down to Mentone Goju Kai Karate club and have an introduction lesson on the house! (Just come with the right attitude as we are fun and friendly club and you'll soon realise you don't need all this aggravation and chest puffed testosterone) beginners classes are Tuesday and Thursday from 7pm - 8:30 and advanced classes are Monday and Wednesday 7pm - 8:30pm. It'd have to be the best club in Melbourne!!!
Btw.... That pivot looks good!
