I'm not going to have a rant on this one because the guy is in serious situation.
I just looked at the KBV site for Altona and it states:
Directions
Altona beach is situated on the north-western side of the bay about 20 minutes from the city. To get there from city travel via the Westgate Bridge, take the Millers Road off-ramp and follow Millers Road right down to the foreshore. Turn right on the Esplanade and look for parking after approximately 1,200 meters.
Description
The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) and has an extensive shallow water shelf which makes the location good for lessons even if this location is not really very central. The beach is relatively narrow and there is a narrow lawn area alongside the parking for rigging.
Cautions
Watch out for the pier on the eastern side of the kiting area. New kting access and area defined - check with Parks Vic - also beginners are warned that onshore winds (southerly, south-easterly) have resulted in injuries and kites over power-lines, kiters dragged onto the beach, etc.
Aspect
The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) with bay on the south.
Rating
Rated favourably for beginners, intermediate and advanced kiters - but watch wind direction
After this incident maybe KBV should not state that it is suitable for beginners AT ALL. They should also be clear on the landing/launching and rigging areas. Maybe they guys at KSS should start talking to council about appropriate large signage to tell people what to do.
Again not having a dig just don't want my local spot to go.
Surely someone saw this happen, and can comment on what error caused this??
Beginner, or advanced regardless, I would like to learn or reiterate my knowledge of what not to do.
The wise man learns from others mistakes.
I was out on a 12 in the kiddie pool at St K. Was regularly underpowered, but often overpowered, so i got out and went home.
Godspeed with your recovery mate!
I know people hate the idea but I really think enough is enough and AkSA and the state associations need to re-look at licensing.
There are too many beginners heading out with very little or no knowledge of wind strengths, wind patterns and just how powerful kites actually are.
Licensing WILL save lives
and for those of us who are already experienced and feel " we don't need a licence " " it's just more red tape etc... " I agree BUT by taking a small amount of time to get it done will ensure beginners to the sport are safer.
Select to expand quotechino said..a cocktail napkin calculation on the velocity needed for a 75 kg rider to maintain a vertical circle with a radius of around 10m?
Speed in m/s to gain hight: E kin = E pot
if radius = 10m, hight is 20m. Speed V with witch kiter is approaching = rad (2 g h) = 20 m/sec or 72km/h
if radius = 2m (2 m line length until the power line), Speed V = 8.9 m/sec or 32km/h
Speedy recovery mate. Looks like you were lucky 3 times: crash the car and not the stone wall; get slowed down by the power lines; crash the second car and not the house.
God, you guys must be tired from jumping to conclusions and casting aspersions! Lets just remember a member of our community has been seriously injured and show some respect!
Select to expand quotechino said..
dafish said..
One can only imagine how much power that poor guy had to do a loop through the powerlines! I would like to know how he got lofted in the first place, his experience level, and if he kited there much. Really goes to show you that when you rock up to an unfamiliar place you need to talk to EXPERIENCED locals. Almost anyone who is experienced will offer advice to keep you safer. Nobody wants to see this happen....ever.
Hope the dude heals quickly and can talk about what went wrong.
It's going to be unpopular of me to contradict someone else and be a skeptical susan to Melbournekiter, especially because I wasn't there and he was, but it strikes me as implausible. Any physics nerds/forensic engineers want to do a cocktail napkin calculation on the velocity needed for a 75 kg rider to maintain a vertical circle with a radius of around 10m?
Use the formula a = (v*v)/r. Any speed greater than 9.9 m/sec or 19 knots will do a vertical loop holding 10 metres of string in tension. It doesn't depend on the mass of the rider. Shorter than 10 metres , less speed required. So quite plausible. I'm surprised you don't have at least one physics nerd over here? Although I've done a few kite lessons, maybe it's an understanding of physics that keeps me on windsurfers.
Edit, that's just the speed to get over the top of the loop with tension you need to add Potential energy loss from entry at the bottom. See Tungsten's following post.
Select to expand quoteharry potter said..
I know people hate the idea but I really think enough is enough and AkSA and the state associations need to re-look at licensing.
There are too many beginners heading out with very little or no knowledge of wind strengths, wind patterns and just how powerful kites actually are.
Licensing WILL save lives
and for those of us who are already experienced and feel " we don't need a licence " " it's just more red tape etc... " I agree BUT by taking a small amount of time to get it done will ensure beginners to the sport are safer.
^^^ I'd be totally happy to do tests, pay fee, and get license as long as it means it would minimise accidents and i can keep kiting at our great local spots...
Select to expand quoteHappyG said..
I'm not going to have a rant on this one because the guy is in serious situation. I just looked at the KBV site for Altona and it states: Directions Altona beach is situated on the north-western side of the bay about 20 minutes from the city. To get there from city travel via the Westgate Bridge, take the Millers Road off-ramp and follow Millers Road right down to the foreshore. Turn right on the Esplanade and look for parking after approximately 1,200 meters. Description The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) and has an extensive shallow water shelf which makes the location good for lessons even if this location is not really very central. The beach is relatively narrow and there is a narrow lawn area alongside the parking for rigging. Cautions Watch out for the pier on the eastern side of the kiting area. New kting access and area defined - check with Parks Vic - also beginners are warned that onshore winds (southerly, south-easterly) have resulted in injuries and kites over power-lines, kiters dragged onto the beach, etc. Aspect The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) with bay on the south. Rating Rated favourably for beginners, intermediate and advanced kiters - but watch wind direction After this incident maybe KBV should not state that it is suitable for beginners AT ALL. They should also be clear on the landing/launching and rigging areas. Maybe they guys at KSS should start talking to council about appropriate large signage to tell people what to do. Again not having a dig just don't want my local spot to go.
Hope the guys ok, i didn't know him but got a text from one of the locals who was walking by when it happened so went down to see if he was ok and how it happened. It was a bit of a shock to all of the guys there understandably.
I was out in the water on my 9m Envy at the time and wasn't way over powered, it was a little gusty but nothing over mid 20's.
The guy was out on a 12m walking backwards to talk to a mate and then got lofted hit the beach on his side and then his kite looped. Reason i went down was first to see if he was ok and second to see how we can prevent it again. Yes he was kiting in a spot not allowed by council and he would have been fine if he had have been in the right location as the kite would have hit the pine trees, so he would have still been on the beach.
I have been working with the council to put better signage up and allocate areas for kiters. There is a great spot for beginners in Altona (better than most spots in the bay)which i send all of my students too when learning as there is about 200-300m of water in from of them in SW-SE conditions.
Drop by the shop on the way to Altona and i can explain exactly where it is, once i we have done maps i will post it.
Ask a local or have a look at the signs before kiteing as they are not that small (standard signs for windsurfing and kiteing that are on most beaches).
Select to expand quotetungsten said..
chino said..a cocktail napkin calculation on the velocity needed for a 75 kg rider to maintain a vertical circle with a radius of around 10m?
Speed in m/s to gain hight: E kin = E pot
if radius = 10m, hight is 20m. Speed V with witch kiter is approaching = rad (2 g h) = 20 m/sec or 72km/h
if radius = 2m (2 m line length until the power line), Speed V = 8.9 m/sec or 32km/h
Speedy recovery mate. Looks like you were lucky 3 times: crash the car and not the stone wall; get slowed down by the power lines; crash the second car and not the house.
The good thing about physics, Tungsten has come up with the same answer using a quite different, but equally valid approach.
Edit, Hang on a valid approach, that is to use kinetic energy of the approach vs. heightgained (20 metres) But to keep tension in the string there still has to be velocity at the top height. So tweak the numbers to allow for that and we should agree.
Edit again. We need at least 2 nerds to get the answer, between us. My first attempt was just the speed at the top to maintain tension, but it must be combined with Tungsten's potential energy loss. So we need to add both factors. = 22.36 metres /sec. Which is a bit high, must have been a shorter length of line than 10 metres. What do you reckon Tungsten?
One more thing, we were talking in the shop earlier that day about Helmets as they use them in most board sports and there are a lot of different types.
So maybe more kiters should think seriously about using them.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..tungsten said..chino said..a cocktail napkin calculation on the velocity needed for a 75 kg rider to maintain a vertical circle with a radius of around 10m?
Speed in m/s to gain hight: E kin = E pot
if radius = 10m, hight is 20m. Speed V with witch kiter is approaching = rad (2 g h) = 20 m/sec or 72km/h
if radius = 2m (2 m line length until the power line), Speed V = 8.9 m/sec or 32km/h
Speedy recovery mate. Looks like you were lucky 3 times: crash the car and not the stone wall; get slowed down by the power lines; crash the second car and not the house.
The good thing about physics, Tungsten has come up with the same answer using a quite different, but equally valid approach.
Just doing my part to steer the conversation away from licensing and the brand of kite he was using 
. In all seriousness though I hope he escaped with nothing more than a few cuts and bruises. I wouldnt wish permanent disability on my worst enemy.
Its really shocking and sad. I'm so sorry to read this and i hope he gets better. I always tell people who look unsteady what to do at Altona, I've seen beginners "practicing" onshore with full size kites. I promptly guide them into the water and explain the dangers. We should all do the same.
In terms of licences start with these first:
Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%
Select to expand quotesalt said...
Its really shocking and sad. I'm so sorry to read this and i hope he gets better. I always tell people who look unsteady what to do at Altona, I've seen beginners "practicing" onshore with full size kites. I promptly guide them into the water and explain the dangers. We should all do the same.
In terms of licences start with these first:
Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%
You are missing a very important point..... None of the above sports put the general public in potential harms way.
Select to expand quoteKSSALTONA said..
HappyG said..
I'm not going to have a rant on this one because the guy is in serious situation. I just looked at the KBV site for Altona and it states: Directions Altona beach is situated on the north-western side of the bay about 20 minutes from the city. To get there from city travel via the Westgate Bridge, take the Millers Road off-ramp and follow Millers Road right down to the foreshore. Turn right on the Esplanade and look for parking after approximately 1,200 meters. Description The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) and has an extensive shallow water shelf which makes the location good for lessons even if this location is not really very central. The beach is relatively narrow and there is a narrow lawn area alongside the parking for rigging. Cautions Watch out for the pier on the eastern side of the kiting area. New kting access and area defined - check with Parks Vic - also beginners are warned that onshore winds (southerly, south-easterly) have resulted in injuries and kites over power-lines, kiters dragged onto the beach, etc. Aspect The beach has a south-easterly aspect (it runs south-west to north-east) with bay on the south. Rating Rated favourably for beginners, intermediate and advanced kiters - but watch wind direction After this incident maybe KBV should not state that it is suitable for beginners AT ALL. They should also be clear on the landing/launching and rigging areas. Maybe they guys at KSS should start talking to council about appropriate large signage to tell people what to do. Again not having a dig just don't want my local spot to go.
Hope the guys ok, i didn't know him but got a text from one of the locals who was walking by when it happened so went down to see if he was ok and how it happened. It was a bit of a shock to all of the guys there understandably.
I was out in the water on my 9m Envy at the time and wasn't way over powered, it was a little gusty but nothing over mid 20's.
The guy was out on a 12m walking backwards to talk to a mate and then got lofted hit the beach on his side and then his kite looped. Reason i went down was first to see if he was ok and second to see how we can prevent it again. Yes he was kiting in a spot not allowed by council and he would have been fine if he had have been in the right location as the kite would have hit the pine trees, so he would have still been on the beach.
I have been working with the council to put better signage up and allocate areas for kiters. There is a great spot for beginners in Altona (better than most spots in the bay)which i send all of my students too when learning as there is about 200-300m of water in from of them in SW-SE conditions.
Drop by the shop on the way to Altona and i can explain exactly where it is, once i we have done maps i will post it.
Ask a local or have a look at the signs before kiteing as they are not that small (standard signs for windsurfing and kiteing that are on most beaches).
I finished up earlier that day and spent the rest of the day on the bike, when I rode past I saw a guy struggling to bring down his north kite (not sure which) but two guys quickly jumped up and got it for him (close to where indecent was) not sure if it was the same guy?
I truly hope that this kiter can walk away from this incident.
There is nothing worse then having a preventable incidence, it reflects badly on the local kitting community. To the average person in Altona we are a bit of a novelty, people love to walk over or park there cars and watch us kite. What the don't like and what i've said before is im sure the local residence don't like having there power cut off before dinner and this reflects badly on us kitiers as a whole.
So here's hoping that Steve is in the good books with the local council, as we want to see the sport grow for the local business and riders. As mentioned over and over.
Beginners - Go to get proper lessons! Invest the extra money so you can water start.
Locals can only do so much to help...
Edit: I really don't mean to stir the pot or anything but just out of interest and for the sake of preventing such a thing in the future...
Can anyone shed some light on why the safety wasn't pulled? Did the IP not know how to use it? Was there not enough time to pull it? A kite can always be replaced.
What I can envision this summer... when more new people attend the kiting scene is a patrol on the beach demonstrating you can activate your safety (experienced or not it will take two seconds before you launch your kite) personally neither for or against it but it saves debate for licensing ect for when the sport becomes more popular and the beaches get more crowded.
As with everyone else, i hope he recovers well.
Another tip that i didn't see in the earlier posts: for any inexperienced kiters reading this and interested in reducing their risk.
Don't fly your kite at 12 o'clock on the beach, fly it off to one side.
At 12 o'clock a gust is more likely to loft you, especially with the wind turbulence lifting over the cars/obstructions/sand dunes etc.
If you fly the kite off to one side, you get pulled sideways rather than up, and can normally brace yourself against the sand, or worst case you might get pulled over, but have more time to react, etc.
Hope this guy recovers from this.
I was kiting for most of the day but complete missed this and was surprised when I had a call from a friend checking I was OK last night.
Further clarification on conditions, at 5pm I went out for my 2nd session of the day, pumped up a 7m C-kite, was nicely powered, wind was 24-26kn and a little gusty, may have been a few 30kn moments but not many.
As I said, I completely missed the incident but know you can experience strong updrafts along the beach at Altona. This is caused by the prevailing wind accelerating up + over the trees and houses along the Esplanade, the updrafts also occur a surprising distance upwind of the objects. Standing on the beach with kite at 12pm chatting to a mate is not advised at any beach, especially at Altona with various hard objects immediately downwind.
Being a local to Altona (Esplanade) this sort of incident isn't great, I (like most of the helpful locals) try my best to inform people whenever I see anything amiss but some of the attitude you get back from these muppets is ridiculous, hopefully people reading this thread will think and take onboard what advise they get from more experienced kiters. An example, Sunday last week, gusty 30-35kn winds - 2 Irish guys setting up a 10m BWS west of the little rock groin, completely the wrong place to set-up and they obviously didn't have a clue by the way they were looking at the bar + lines. I mentioned to them that rigging up there wasn't the safest place (2m from the rock wall / road with no trees + margin for error) and that a 10m was too big for the conditions - the reply "we'll be OK, the kite has lots of depower" = ****wits.
Saffer - guy on the Liquid Force you mentioned is a lost cause, I believe he's taught himself so has no clue regarding any right of way rules or safety aspects. I've spoken to him on many occasion (1st time last year when he was setting up a Wipika Classic at Altona on a Northerly!!!) and others have also spoken to him with no luck. Not sure if it's a language barrier but doesn't seem to take anything onboard.
Good winds + take care of yourselves and respect the wonderful sport we all enjoy before it is lost to us. Rich
Hope this guy is ok. Really sad news. These kind of accidents always make me feel sick! Reminds me of what happened to Laurie.
For all the would of, should of, could of.... **** happens. It could happen to anyone of us. When you get hit with a strong gust, you've got seconds to react or not.
If you don't have AKSA insurance cover, I recommend you sort it out. Our kites can just as easily hurt others if things go bad.
#1. Hope the guy is ok
#2. Melbournekiter - You are a dick. Trying to sledge a kite shop based on a brand. Get a hobby F#$%wit
#3. Lessons (and quality of lessons) is a HUGE factor in learning to kite. I don't know this guy and dont know if he did or didnt have lessons. It is a general comment and hopefully stops some things like (I've been kiting 3 months, I can teach you) type stuff
#4. Community - If you see someone unsafe/unskilled launching, landing, pumping up whatever.. SAY SOMETHING. Even if they think your a tool, at least you know you they heard what you had to say
#5. Note to beginners & vast people would "think" they are intimidate. Pay attention to 'areas' where to kite. There are areas that are for "advanced" riding (i.e. Kiddie pool @ St. Kilda) that you should NOT be riding in (some are even listed on KBV). You are a danger to yourself and to everyone else there.
Thanks Steve KSS, I know you would try and talk to council about signage you guys are really pro-active.
If the guy was experienced and just got lofted and wrong spot wrong time. Again buy a lotto ticket.
I have grabbed so many kites from hitting cars and walkers down at Altona and I have to say its always rider error.
I kite Past Romawi Street Away from Altona pier for that reason and down sometimes at Apex Park. Again hope the dude is OK. My wife saw me get lofted and slammed into the water once thankfully I pulled my QR and walked away, I feel really sorry for very one who saw it as well, there is sometimes nothing you can do.
I feel for you "SALTY" I know you are just trying to put it in perspective.
Actually one of the highest amount of injuries in sport is skateboarding. When I ride big ramps I wear a helmet but I don't when I skate street and thats when I do the most damage, go figure.
I say we should have 'wear a helmet' day in respect to mother nature, this guys luck, and your nugget.
And it should be every day!
Best of luck to the critically injured Kiter in intensive care at the moment.....
Hopefully you pull through.....
Very sad to hear this and hope the guy makes a speedy recovery.
I agree with Saffer 100% that Altona is not a beginners location and have been afraid of this happening for a number of years now.
I got very pissed one summer when two kite schools turned up at Altona and proceeded to commence with lessons in a totally inappropriate location. It just sends out the wrong message in every way and you cant blame newbies for being attacted to a location when there are banner adverts and branded vehicles all over the place.
FYI this is the 3rd very serious very accident in last 12 months where the person wasn't a member of AKSA
The remifications are terrible for family involved if someone really gets hurt or killed. AKSA will payout if it goes down, why people still are to irresponsible given the risk of the sport I really can't fathom?
You may be the best experienced kiter or biggest kook in Australia but anything can happen, no matter how carefull you are. Think of the families after the accident.
It's all good to talk it up on forums but people need to take responsibility for their actions. Do a google search for kitesurfing accident and see what you come up with..
Hope the dude in Melb makes a full recovery.
I'm not being a smartarse. Just stating facts.
Sad story; brings back memories of a similar incident in Rockingham 10 years ago - gusty onshore winds (Northerlies), kite at 12, experienced kiter lofted into powerlines; he didn't make it - sincerely hope this guy pulls through ok.
Really sad to read of these events, hope it's the last one for a long time. 
Also Mr EPPO "just ask me" polaxed himsef a few weeks back...
Quite badly by all acounts.... However we all know he tears up after a broken nail or a splinter..
I had intended on not posting, as being a local in I don't want this to get too much publicity but after reading all of the comments I feel there are a few things that I would like to say. Firstly I watched the whole event unfold and I have to say it is easily the worst thing I have ever witnessed, I still feel shaken about it today. My heart goes out to his family and friends and I really hope he survives this as it was a horrific accident. Also to everyone that was there a big pat on the back as I think we all did everything that could be done under the circumstances. Our responsibility now is to make sure this never happens again.
I was probably only 20 metres from the poor guy when he was lofted. There was nothing anyone could do to help him it all happened so quick. The only chance the guy had was to pull his safety the instant he got in trouble which he did not. The first thing he hit was the brick wall that runs parallel to the footpath, he went headfirst into this and I am certain it would have knocked him unconcious. Maybe if he was wearing a helmet this would have given him enough of a chance to pull his safety before getting dragged into a car, over the road and ultimately into powerlines. I wear a helmet and after seeing this I think it is a sensible precaution for anyone kiting.
In relation to the launching area in Altona I think there is a little confusion and I think it would definitely help to have some more signage. I have kited in Altona for the past year and I thought you were ok to launch past the last lamp post and this is past the kite launching sign but not far enough along so as to be in front of the trees. After watching this accident yesterday it should be mandatory at Altona to launch with the trees at your back and I will always do this from now on and as kiters at Altona we should refuse to launch kites for people who do not launch in a safe area. it may be a good idea to have a large sign that spells this out so there is no confusion.
There is also a large range of kiters that use Altona and I think it is fair to say that there are some very experienced kiters that need to take more responsibility there. You are the role models of our community and it you self launch in the open in front of the car park or bring your kite in and land it on the grass 5 meters from the road because you do not want sand on your kite beginners will see you and try and imitate you. I will certainly be taking more precautions for my own safety and I will also not tolerate watching others take risks as the consequences are far too severe.
