I'd like to second that. Qmate - thanks for keeping us informed. Our thoughts are with you.
Gday all,
Sad to here the news of another accident.best wishs to all concerned.
Here is some ideas that might help avoid a further accident.
How about a kitesurfing report that is put on line each day.
Surfers have swellnet.The report might state.that its a perfect steady northerly get down to Rosebud-Rye.beginners to advanced get out there. Or strong southerly frontal systems today 20-50 knots .go play golf.
You get the drift.
Secondly practise in your mind releasing the safety system.When these big accidents happen the person hasn't reacted quick enough to release the safety system.As your launching your kite have it in the back of your mind to let go of the bar and release.Same as when you come back to the beach.as you get to the waters edge. get of your board and be ready again to release the kite.come back and get your board later.
Finally a note to saffer.Mate this one must hurt.I remember reading all your previous posts.
cheers all .
hope the bloke comes through , but it doesnt sound too rosie at the moment, as long as kiting has and continues accidents are going to happen, same with all high end sports , impo all common and designated beaches should have a dedicated launching post, ive not read too deaply into the lead up to the accident or actual eppisode but generally accidents are related to launching and landing, sure its important to self launch and land if you need but, if youve a facility to do it safer why not use it? . a launching post allows you to elevate the kite and actually acess the wind and conditions before you detatch, a self launch doesnt along with an assisted launch, beach draggings have become a thing of the past at my local since ive put in a launch and landing post complete with a shackle and hope all that visit our local use it and stay safe.
Select to expand quoteRosieKB said..
From a learners perspective it can be hard knowing which kite to put up...
Buy a $10 anemometer off eBay.
Check the wind range chart for your kite from the manufacturer.
Read the weather forecast for the day you plan to go out. Pay attention to the gusts...
Measure the wind at the beach.
Ask if the locals are expecting the wind to change or become gusty.
See what other people are riding; pay attention to the guys with the same gear or at the same level as you.
Measure the wind again.
Set up the kite which will fit its middle third of the wind range from the chart, to the conditions.
Have a go and see how it feels. Adjust up or down (wind or kite size) from there.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..RosieKB said..
From a learners perspective it can be hard knowing which kite to put up...
Buy a $10 anemometer off eBay.
Check the wind range chart for your kite from the manufacturer.
Read the weather forecast for the day you plan to go out. Pay attention to the gusts...
Measure the wind at the beach.
Ask if the locals are expecting the wind to change or become gusty.
See what other people are riding; pay attention to the guys with the same gear or at the same level as you.
Measure the wind again.
Set up the kite which will fit its middle third of the wind range from the chart, to the conditions.
Have a go and see how it feels. Adjust up or down (wind or kite size) from there.
dont buy a ten dollar anemoter off ebay buy a decent quality one ( kindl windtronic) the yaughtsmen, crane drivers, and windfarms use them around $80 windspeeds in knts,klms,mph, gale forces,and max and average speeds also on the ground the wind is generally less than in the air, then spend a good few minutes away from headlands ,sand dunes etc and get a true reading, asking some one about the weather is a lottery, set up light then increse not too strong then decrease, my moto is if in doubt dont go out, sorry kamikuza these are my oppinions
Firstly, my thoughts are with you Quinn, I hope things pick up for you very soon.
This is another reminder of how dangerous this sport can be regardless of experience. I would like to suggest that all shops, schools and other industry bodies print out the basic details of Quinn's accident and display them prominently on their counters or in their windows as a reminder to experienced and new kiters alike of what the consequences can be. Maybe KBV could draft up an appropriately worded flyer, add a photo of Quinn to make it personal.
I have recounted The details of Laurie's accident from some years back to countless people to try and get them to take notice, usually people new to the sport who are doing or about to do something wrong. Many just don't seem to believe or honestly believe it couldn't happen to them.
Be very careful using any anemometer, I work in an industry where we use high quality units to verify air flows, cheap units are easily influenced in the way they are held or positioned. Using them in salt air will also very quickly degrade any bearings they may have and severely impact there readings and repeatable performance.
Stick with the basics,
1..know your limits (the real ones not what you think you can do),
2..learn to recognise what is going on around you such as cloud formations, wind patterns on the water etc.
3..observe what others are doing such as kite size selection,
4..take a few minutes to observe what is going on, don't just rush out.
5..don't just use a bigger kite size because its all you have, if you don't have the right gear don't go out.
Select to expand quotearloj said..Qmate said...
I too am a work colleague and friend of Quinn. I'm afraid the reason there hasn't been a more recent update is because there hasn't been any good news. He remains in a coma, having sustained a severe head injury. I would join with my other colleague that posted in stating that Quinn is much admired and respected for his selfless nature. He is a guy who would give you the shirt off his back if you were in need. Humble, talented with an infectious chuckle. One of those rare individuals you count yourself lucky to meet and luckier to call a friend.
Those of us who know Quinn and have read this thread, really appreciate the support of the community and have taken strength from the outpouring of well wishes. We are currently in the process of raising funds to help pay for his treatment and support his family once they arrive. I will post further details once this has been organised but even your well-wishes have been of great help.
Sorry to hear mate thoughts an prayers go out to him an his family. Thank you for taking the time to post an update. Please disregard all this other rubbish people are posting.
Really Mr Arloj,
We're talking rubbish???
What we are taking about here that YOU so call rubbish, is what will help the next guy learn from and save another poor sole getting seriously injured. Every one on this forum is very sorry for what happend, I personally didn't witness the incident on that day as I was in the water at the time, but as soon as I saw the flashing police and ambulance lights I got a sickening feeling of oh no not another one.
Last year I actully wittnest a guy get lofted an smashed on to hard packed sand and was knocked out for 15-20min till the ambose arrived to get him to hospital. We have an ambulance officer who is a kiter himself, and he has been keeping in touch with this guy and has told me the guy is slowly improving day by day.
I personally don't want any accidents to happen to any one else that's WHY I and the rest of the crew hear talk what YOU call RUBBISH.
Now another important bit of more rubbish for begginers to note.
DONT just launch a kite and think thats where it ends with checking out the conditions. Because for me checking the conditions starts from when I get out of the car with checking out the wind conditions at that moment, but also while I'm out in the water I keep an eye on the horizon line. Mother nature has a way of giving you hints.
I can tell from 15min to 30min what's heading my way. If you look into the distance and see a row of white caps close together coming at you, quickly get your self in and park your kite till it passes.
If you see dark clouds in the distance get your ass in before it gets to close, again kite down and wait till it passes.
This is a very dangerous sport don't ever let your guard down.
Again Sorry I just felt I should add some more rubbish to help out some poor noob that could learn from what I have picked up over the nine years of kiting.
Spartan
I think arloj was talking about some of the kiteschool bitching as rubish Spartan
Haven't been on the forum for ages but saw something from Hookworm on this so came to check it out.
Very sad to hear of the accident - my thoughts are with Quinn and his family.
QMate, please let us all know if there is anything we can do to help support Quinn.
James
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..
But one fact remains.
Responsibility for your own safety rests solely with the individual. You.
And YOU have a responsibility for the safety of others as well.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Check the wind range chart for your kite from the manufacturer.
No good for learners!
Airush lithium 12m states 25knot high end for 75kg rider.
I'm overpowered at 25 and am 90kgs.
Select to expand quoteSpartan said..
...
I can tell from 15min to 30min what's heading my way. If you look into the distance and see a row of white caps close together coming at you, quickly get your self in and park your kite till it passes. If you see dark clouds in the distance get your ass in before it gets to close, again kite down and wait till it passes. This is a very dangerous sport don't ever let your guard down.
...
Question: What did you mean by the white-caps comment? If they are closer together in the distance I guess it means a bitch of a gust is heading our way?
You are right about the dark-clouds comment. The times I've seen guys being lofted (not dangerously, but lofted never the less) on the beach is when a dark cloud looms over head. They have a nice tendency to suck air UPWARDS or a scooping effect.
Here's another tip. If you see birds using updrafts to gain height nearby whilst kiting, that's an obvious sign to park the kite for a while.
I think most kiters have a tendency to just judge the wind and its strength and direction alone. So they go out not realising there is a whole lot of other factors affecting the environment.
Select to expand quoteKazza said..kiterboy said..
But one fact remains.
Responsibility for your own safety rests solely with the individual. You.
And YOU have a responsibility for the safety of others as well.
Perhaps you need to read my post again.
Franz Olry, one of the pioneers of kite surfing back in the late 90s and early 2000s says it very well in this interview ...
www.thekiteboarder.com/2010/09/from-the-beginning-the-franz-olry-interview/
And I quote ...
"..It’s important that experienced riders try to help the less experienced ones, but the companies have to take care with the construction of the equipment. Like with a parachute, you have to trust your equipment, and this is our responsibility as manufacturers."
Select to expand quoteQmate said..
I too am a work colleague and friend of Quinn. I'm afraid the reason there hasn't been a more recent update is because there hasn't been any good news. He remains in a coma, having sustained a severe head injury. I would join with my other colleague that posted in stating that Quinn is much admired and respected for his selfless nature. He is a guy who would give you the shirt off his back if you were in need. Humble, talented with an infectious chuckle. One of those rare individuals you count yourself lucky to meet and luckier to call a friend.
Those of us who know Quinn and have read this thread, really appreciate the support of the community and have taken strength from the outpouring of well wishes. We are currently in the process of raising funds to help pay for his treatment and support his family once they arrive. I will post further details once this has been organised but even your well-wishes have been of great help.
Firstly I'd like to pass on my thoughts to Quinn and his family, i wish him a full recovery. Secondly, I cant speak for others but i'd happily donate money to help. If you can let me know if this is possible either PM me or reply in this thread.
This is really sad and scares the crap out of me a little bit, I hope he's ok.
As kitesurfing seems very much in the development stage of a sport, I thought I might share my experience going from a beginner -> intermediate noting the things that appear to have worked for me.
- When i got interested in Kitesurfing I did some googling. "Lift Accident" videos were all it took for me to know this is seriously dangerous.
- I hung out on Hampton beach and pulled a few guys up to ask them about the sport, they all said great things and GET LESSONS.
- One guy sat me down for a while and said "look, kite-surfing is not about board riding, its about kite flying. Go get a trainer kite, learn to fly it blind, then go get lessons, then you'll be ready".
- I did what he said, bought a 2m trainer and went down to hampton beach every afternoon for 2 weeks and learnt not just the wind window but how a (small) kite behaves, how it should feel in different parts of the window under different kite trajectories. Further, 2 weeks with mother nature taught me about gusts!
- I then got lesson's on hampton beach with you know what school. The guy had me do 3 hours of sand based safety drills. Only then did i do body dragging and board recovery drills etc. We never actually tried to get up on a board because as he said "now you know safety. Now you ready. Why pay me watch you get up?". He was foreign.
- Bought my own gear, got up literally on first effort. I've rarely put my kite down in the water since because i could largely fly my kite without looking from day 1.
Now i've told a few shops about the whole trainer kite thing and that i never went in the water for the first 3 hours of lessons and they all reckon i got ripped off. The guy who trained me was world ranked, i think he knew something most of the shops didn't.
p.s. I did most of my early days kiting at Altona but always on mid-high tide!
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
To start with, I wish the kiter a speedy recovery.
Then to all you "ban beginners", I would say that a beginner under the tutelage of a competent instructor is perfectly capable of learning safely and securely at Altona beach.
Also consider that I have even witnessed IKO qualified instructors deposit their kites in the power lines, so don't straight away jump to conclusions about the experience factor in these incidents.
I do however concour with the concerns about people buying kites without lessons, these last few seasons I have almost become a remedial kite instructor, re teaching those who had started off with poor instruction, poor advice, and/or got sold at kite based on what the shop needed to move. All leading to a lack of confidence that needed to be over come.
The quick solution would be licensing, but I for one don't like that idea. So kiters and retailers have to rally to the cause and find away to make sure those buying a kite are suitably ready to own one.
In the interim Altona kiters need to act as community and actually help newbies by helping them launch, get out back, and land. Not whinge at them, snicker behind their backs, or show off and intimidate them.
As for the term "Newbies" it's a relative thing, I was a Newbie once, and to me the vast majority of you Altona kiters are "Newbies".
KBV
A detailed report on the specifics of the accident would be greatly appreciated. Could you please also address;
1. What chain of events lead to this accident?
2. How this accident could have been prevented?
3. How this accident is different to the accident last year where the 50 yr old victim remains is a non functioning state, and what was learnt and implemented in the past 12 months?
4. What measures you propose to implement to help prevent a repeat of this?
It's my opinion that in a sport that is unregulated, the onus of safety is on experienced kiters at the scene, especially and or friends responsible for a novice setting up and launching their kite.
Select to expand quotekbv said...chelsea said..
The only reason I'm posting this is to get the beginners aware how dangerous this sport is if you don't go through a proper training before you go out on water. Those few hundred bucks you'll pay for the course is the most important ones, if you haven't got the money for it, don't do the sport.
This happened around 5:30pm today, lifted a kiter 6, 7 meters in air, smashed him against the car, lifted him then again into the power lines where he got electrocuted and threw him down into the neighbours backyard on top of a car (can be seen in the photo). The paramedics were few meters away having a break which is probably what might save his life, when they took him away he was conscious.
Also, he didn't have a helmet, I don't wear one either but seeing this today I'll be getting one.
Altona Kiting Accident
In light of recent incident, Kiteboarding Victoria wish to express our deepest sympathies to the Kiter and his family and those that provided assistance at the accident. As most of you are aware that the accident was serious. Also thanks to Ambulance Victoria and Alfred Hospital staff who have helped to assist our fellow kiteboarder.
Thank you to those who have contacted KBV to provide their eye witness account of the incident. As we now have a detailed and accurate understanding of how this accident occurred. As a volunteer based organisation KBV will continue to work with stakeholders over the coming period to address Kiteboarding and safety at Altona and other beaches throughout Victoria. This includes for example appropriate signage, maps and kiter and public education.
If you have any questions or suggestions, please make contact via our website or KBV facebook page.
Witnessing such an event can be traumatic, if you are still thinking about the incident or it has affected you in anyway way, we suggest that you discuss it with your family and or friends or there are free public service such as beyond blue or life line.
We once again thank you to those that provided assistance and support at the time.
I hope to have an update that I can share of the Kiters situation in the next few days.
KBV
A detailed report on the specifics of the accident would be greatly appreciated. Could you please also address;
1. What chain of events lead to this accident?
2. How this accident could have been prevented?
3. How this accident is different to the accident last year where the 50 yr old victim remains is a non functioning state, and what was learnt and implemented in the past 12 months?
4. What measures you propose to implement to help prevent a repeat of this?
It's my opinion that in a sport that is unregulated, the onus of safety is on experienced kiters at the scene, especially and or friends responsible for a novice setting up and launching their kite.
The onus of safety has to be on the individual, have I done lessons, have I researched wind patterns, what is my skill level, have I picked a suitable kiting location, have I picked the right size kite for the wind, Am I familiar with my safety system, helmet, impact vest, the list goes on. There seems to be a trend with the accidents of late, onshore gusty winds (bad locations).
I hate hearing these stories, I really hope Quinn gets better.
This afternoon I grab my helmet to go for an afternoon kite session at Altona. I was thinking to pump up the 16 meter kite because there were not much white chop but everyone was riding between 13 and 10 meter kite. Since what happened last Sunday I decided to pump up the 12. Also I saw more people wearing helmets. After all the posting some of us are taken steps to prevent another accident.
Select to expand quoteselwyn said..RAL INN said..
To start with, I wish the kiter a speedy recovery.
Then to all you "ban beginners", I would say that a beginner under the tutelage of a competent instructor is perfectly capable of learning safely and securely at Altona beach.
Also consider that I have even witnessed IKO qualified instructors deposit their kites in the power lines, so don't straight away jump to conclusions about the experience factor in these incidents.
I do however concour with the concerns about people buying kites without lessons, these last few seasons I have almost become a remedial kite instructor, re teaching those who had started off with poor instruction, poor advice, and/or got sold at kite based on what the shop needed to move. All leading to a lack of confidence that needed to be over come.
The quick solution would be licensing, but I for one don't like that idea. So kiters and retailers have to rally to the cause and find away to make sure those buying a kite are suitably ready to own one.
In the interim Altona kiters need to act as community and actually help newbies by helping them launch, get out back, and land. Not whinge at them, snicker behind their backs, or show off and intimidate them.
As for the term "Newbies" it's a relative thing, I was a Newbie once, and to me the vast majority of you Altona kiters are "Newbies".
KBV
A detailed report on the specifics of the accident would be greatly appreciated. Could you please also address;
1. What chain of events lead to this accident?
2. How this accident could have been prevented?
3. How this accident is different to the accident last year where the 50 yr old victim remains is a non functioning state, and what was learnt and implemented in the past 12 months?
4. What measures you propose to implement to help prevent a repeat of this?
It's my opinion that in a sport that is unregulated, the onus of safety is on experienced kiters at the scene, especially and or friends responsible for a novice setting up and launching their kite.
Hey mate.
KVB don't involved with forums much for numerous reasons,. If you or anyone have any suggestions to improve safety at Altona and overall safety of kitesurfing in Victoria could you please send these to KVB website or Facebook page - These will all be used to improve and develop our sport in a constructive way.
Once again if you or anyone would like to talk about the incident the team at KVB are more than happy to chat about such a serious and potentially distressing incident so feel free to contact them anytime.
Cheers
A.
Select to expand quotePRAWNDOG said..
The onus of safety has to be on the individual, have I done lessons, have I researched wind patterns, what is my skill level, have I picked a suitable kiting location, have I picked the right size kite for the wind, Am I familiar with my safety system, helmet, impact vest, the list goes on. There seems to be a trend with the accidents of late, onshore gusty winds (bad locations).
I hate hearing these stories, I really hope Quinn gets better.
Prawndog
I agree with you BUT;
A novice doesn't have the experience to handle the questions you've listed.
What if they lack experience, which they do-
......and they believe they can handle a gust, a tangle, a collapse....etc, BUT as an experienced kiter you know they MAY not.
Who's going to help this person as they are about to possibly permanently disable and ruin their life in a split second ?
Select to expand quotelpak said...
This is really sad and scares the crap out of me a little bit, I hope he's ok.
As kitesurfing seems very much in the development stage of a sport, I thought I might share my experience going from a beginner -> intermediate noting the things that appear to have worked for me.
- When i got interested in Kitesurfing I did some googling. "Lift Accident" videos were all it took for me to know this is seriously dangerous.
- I hung out on Hampton beach and pulled a few guys up to ask them about the sport, they all said great things and GET LESSONS.
- One guy sat me down for a while and said "look, kite-surfing is not about board riding, its about kite flying. Go get a trainer kite, learn to fly it blind, then go get lessons, then you'll be ready".
- I did what he said, bought a 2m trainer and went down to hampton beach every afternoon for 2 weeks and learnt not just the wind window but how a (small) kite behaves, how it should feel in different parts of the window under different kite trajectories. Further, 2 weeks with mother nature taught me about gusts!
- I then got lesson's on hampton beach with you know what school. The guy had me do 3 hours of sand based safety drills. Only then did i do body dragging and board recovery drills etc. We never actually tried to get up on a board because as he said "now you know safety. Now you ready. Why pay me watch you get up?". He was foreign.
- Bought my own gear, got up literally on first effort. I've rarely put my kite down in the water since because i could largely fly my kite without looking from day 1.
Now i've told a few shops about the whole trainer kite thing and that i never went in the water for the first 3 hours of lessons and they all reckon i got ripped off. The guy who trained me was world ranked, i think he knew something most of the shops didn't.
p.s. I did most of my early days kiting at Altona but always on mid-high tide!
Good email.. Beginners take note and anyone trying to get into sport
Selwyn as a beginner (not referring to you as a beginner by the way, just generalising here and I don't know if Quinn was a beginner either so not referring to him as a beginner either) but you should stick to the locations where people are doing lessons as you will know its a suitable location to kite otherwise they wouldn't be teaching there and i'm sure the instructors will be happy to launch and land you, just until your confident in your own personal ability. Don't go out in onshore gusty wind as a beginner full stop, as you don't have to be a beginner to have an accident in onshore gusty winds accidents could happen to anyone, just like our last tragic accident here in WA, there are two tips that will help protect you as a beginner. Cross shore winds and places with plenty of beach are ideal places to learn. I don't know about where you kite, i'm not from vic but not everybody is always going to know each other personally and each others skill level all the time, which is why its crucial to ensure you have chosen a suitable location that matches your skill level in the first place. Keep in mind kiting is an extreme sport it may not always look it but things can go wrong accidents happen is just worse in onshore conditions what if a line snaps on your kite, you land to hot from a trick in onshore wind there is only one place your really going to go. Perhaps certain locations should get some sort of rating to assist people in choosing there kiting locations like green-beginner, yellow-intermediate, red-expert with a brief describing the right conditions needed for this location ect ( I'm not sure if there is already something like this in place). But this still won't stop people having accidents like you said people want to progress and push themselves they might see someone else out and think its okay when its not, so next time your not sure sit it out, there will always be another session.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..dont buy a ten dollar anemoter off ebay buy a decent quality one ( kindl windtronic) the yaughtsmen, crane drivers, and windfarms use them around $80 windspeeds in knts,klms,mph, gale forces,and max and average speeds also on the ground the wind is generally less than in the air, then spend a good few minutes away from headlands ,sand dunes etc and get a true reading, asking some one about the weather is a lottery, set up light then increse not too strong then decrease, my moto is if in doubt dont go out, sorry kamikuza these are my oppinions
Agree with that except on the quality 
you only want to get a rough idea of what the wind is like - don't forget the wind gradient 20+ meters above your outstretched arm. Unless you're measuring humidity as well, it's only ever going to be a rule of thumb (and my $10 eBay anemometer does all the things you list as important) so that's my theory behind a cheap wind meter.
Yeah, locals may be a lottery... but if there's spots that look ok but have nasty microclimates it may just be important. They may be able to tell you how to spot incoming squalls or a little about the local meteorology.
Of course, nothing takes the place of your own common sense!
Terrible news. Hope he recovers fully, and soon.
Lots of talk in these threads about pulling QR. Unfortunately, in most cases, it's all over before you have time to react.
Is anybody teaching the act of letting the bar go? Most modern kites will depower and fall to the water. Unless one of the lines is wrapped around the end of the bar and looping out of control, letting the bar go is a good first option.
I drill, (and I mean drill over and over again to my students) these steps
1: let go of the bar
2: activate release
3: ditch kite
I try and teach them muscle memory and I always spring them with a surprise when I tell them what to do. I say to them that when I call out an instruction they are to do it immediately. If I say ,"let go of the bar" and they don't act straight away, then I know that they need to understand why seconds count. Throughout the lessons I throw that in randomly so that they understand.
The comment about kite flying skills really sums it up. I believe a good instructor should focus on the safety and kite flying before ever considering riding the board. By telling my students on the first day that they won't be trying to get up on the board the first day they don't set unrealistic goals.
I have said this before, but for those who are just starting out I will say it again. When I was learning the first thing I did was look at all the kitemares I could find and study them so I didn't repeat those actions. I joined this forum so I could learn. I asked what might seem like stupid questions. I have a wife and two kids I want to make sure I come home to every night. Things go wrong in a hurry and if you have your muscle memory working, you can disarm most situations. I have been in many of those situations now, and it only reinforces how import the 3 steps are:
1: let go of the bar
2: activate release
3: ditch kite
again, hopeful for a speedy recovery to the young man. I am happy to help in any way with his recovery. We are a community, and I would say that most of us care for each other. Some of us might be smart arses about it, but deep down we all care and want to help and stop people from getting hurt.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..Spartan said..
...
I can tell from 15min to 30min what's heading my way. If you look into the distance and see a row of white caps close together coming at you, quickly get your self in and park your kite till it passes. If you see dark clouds in the distance get your ass in before it gets to close, again kite down and wait till it passes. This is a very dangerous sport don't ever let your guard down.
...
Question: What did you mean by the white-caps comment? If they are closer together in the distance I guess it means a bitch of a gust is heading our way?
Hey Lofty,
What I'm meaning is that when you get an even amount of white caps with space between them, the water shows us that there is an even and constant wind.
As soon as you see a the space between the white caps closer together and a slight mist it means there's a squall coming at you and the water is being wipped up.
Squals always travel quick so do the same get out quick but don't get yourself all worked up and If you find yourself in a squall, depower your kite fully, put in on it's side and just let go of the bar, your hands should be ready on your safety release incase the worst happens.
