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First report: Are you a windsurfer or a kitesurfer

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Created by PeterPaan > 9 months ago, 7 Apr 2013
PeterPaan
NSW, 66 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:30PM
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have 203 responses, and it is really looking like the responses are only slowly dwindling to nil. I think it is probably pretty OK to attempt a first cut of an analysis to get a sense of we look like as a community.

(Later this week.....I am going to attempt to do some complex stuff with the data to compare how differently Windsurfers and Kitesurfers reported for each of those questions. To do this I have to "cut and paste" 203 results into a spreadsheet so I can use a pivot table......let's see how long this takes. I am also going to have a go at plotting on a map where sharks have been spotted by you guys and will share!!! )

BUT FOR NOW:

95.6% are Boys
53% Kitesurfers, 47% Windsurfers
93.6% of you are at least Intermediate Skill or higher
82.2% of you will get off your couch when it is 15 knots or more
43% Flatwater, 32% Waves, 25% Open ocean (and one other individual "Too Extreme to describe!)
71% sail any day of the week, 18% on weekends, and 11% whenever they find time.
69% never switched between Windsurf or Kitesurf before
For those who did switch, apart from the 9 people who said that it was "too complex to describe", the remaining responses showed that 60 Windsurfers had switched to Kitesurfing, with 14 of these switching back to being Windsurfers (Though there was one report that said he changed from being a kitesurfer to being a windsurfer, but then declared that he is Currently a kitesurfer....so i am not too sure what to make of this for the moment). It would appear at this stage that NO kitesurfers have actually switched from their sport. (again I think there could be some "complex ones" that I may have missed)
76% of people do not see themselves changing their current sailing sport in the future
58% of respondents never had an encounter with a shark

Respondents are from the states (approx):

WA: 33%
NSW: 23%
QLD: 22%
Vic: 14%
SA: 4%
ACT: 3%
Tassie: 1.5%
NT: 1% (2 individuals)


I am going to keep the survey open for now, but am going to start to see if I can tease a a report which separates out the Windsurfer responses and the Kitesurfer responses. This could be interesting.

Watch this space.

So just want to say a BIG THANK YOU for all you have participated so far!!!!

I hope you enjoy your week!!

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:18PM
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WOW,,,thats a big chunk of windsurfers changing to kitesurfing and very few going back to the pole.
Good to see some real statistic, cheers for taking the time to put it all together.

dafrog
321 posts
7 Apr 2013 8:38PM
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95.6% are Boys


this is one hell of a sausage fest...

Mark _australia
WA, 22337 posts
8 Apr 2013 12:15AM
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lotofwind said...
WOW,,,thats a big chunk of windsurfers changing to kitesurfing and very few going back to the pole.
Good to see some real statistic, cheers for taking the time to put it all together.


No, it is a "big chunk" of kiters who used to windsurf. It says nothing about the percentage of windsufers who changed over.

Big difference if you actually think about the stats. The question asks 'how many people answering the survey changed from kiting to windsurfing'. It does not ask all the people who have ever windsurfed how many went over to kite.


Sorry to spoil it for you.

Underoath
QLD, 2433 posts
8 Apr 2013 3:43AM
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The elephant in the room is that sadly once the baby boomers stop hitting the beaches, windsurfing will be extinct.

On the plus side, windsurfers have all the flat water at Pinneroo and then kiters can use the whole Pond.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
8 Apr 2013 7:25AM
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Mark _australia said...
lotofwind said...
WOW,,,thats a big chunk of windsurfers changing to kitesurfing and very few going back to the pole.
Good to see some real statistic, cheers for taking the time to put it all together.

It does not ask all the people who have ever windsurfed how many went over to kite.


Agreed, I guess if they asked ALL the people who have ever windsurfed the number would be alot higher.

Mark _australia
WA, 22337 posts
8 Apr 2013 8:30AM
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Ooh look tons of thumbs down - thought it might happen cos a polie is daring to post here, but read it. ...

What the survey results DO say - of the respondents who kite, quite a lot used to windsurf.

There is not a "big chunk of windsurfers gone over to kiting"

That is not saying the same thing.

Loto your assertion is like if we ask all the kiters here if they live in a house, and 95% do. So thus 95% of people who live in houses must kite??

No of course it doesn't. So.... Because 60 people of 203 in the survey used to windsuf and now kite it does not mean 60/203 = 29.5% of windsurfers have stopped and gone over to kiting.

alverstone
WA, 532 posts
8 Apr 2013 8:55AM
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PeterPaan said...

have 203 responses, and it is really looking like the responses are only slowly dwindling to nil. I think it is probably pretty OK to attempt a first cut of an analysis to get a sense of we look like as a community.

(Later this week.....I am going to attempt to do some complex stuff with the data to compare how differently Windsurfers and Kitesurfers reported for each of those questions. To do this I have to "cut and paste" 203 results into a spreadsheet so I can use a pivot table......let's see how long this takes. I am also going to have a go at plotting on a map where sharks have been spotted by you guys and will share!!! )

BUT FOR NOW:

95.6% are Boys
53% Kitesurfers, 47% Windsurfers
93.6% of you are at least Intermediate Skill or higher
82.2% of you will get off your couch when it is 15 knots or more
43% Flatwater, 32% Waves, 25% Open ocean (and one other individual "Too Extreme to describe!)
71% sail any day of the week, 18% on weekends, and 11% whenever they find time.
69% never switched between Windsurf or Kitesurf before
For those who did switch, apart from the 9 people who said that it was "too complex to describe", the remaining responses showed that 60 Windsurfers had switched to Kitesurfing, with 14 of these switching back to being Windsurfers (Though there was one report that said he changed from being a kitesurfer to being a windsurfer, but then declared that he is Currently a kitesurfer....so i am not too sure what to make of this for the moment). It would appear at this stage that NO kitesurfers have actually switched from their sport. (again I think there could be some "complex ones" that I may have missed)
76% of people do not see themselves changing their current sailing sport in the future
58% of respondents never had an encounter with a shark

Respondents are from the states (approx):

WA: 33%
NSW: 23%
QLD: 22%
Vic: 14%
SA: 4%
ACT: 3%
Tassie: 1.5%
NT: 1% (2 individuals)


I am going to keep the survey open for now, but am going to start to see if I can tease a a report which separates out the Windsurfer responses and the Kitesurfer responses. This could be interesting.

Watch this space.

So just want to say a BIG THANK YOU for all you have participated so far!!!!

I hope you enjoy your week!!


Where's the link to the survey in case any of us came late to it as a result of this post, please?

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
8 Apr 2013 10:58AM
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Oh markie,Denial is an ugly thing. lol.
I would guess the red thumbs would be for the contence of your post, not because you windsurf.
I dont think me or anyone else is quoting percentages of the whole of Australia, the results show 60 out of 203 surveyed switched codes,,,,,no matter how you twist it in your mind, that a pretty big number.
They are just interesting facts, dont let it worry you, its just a social media survey.

rphi6876
29 posts
8 Apr 2013 9:11AM
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Mark _australia said...
Ooh look tons of thumbs down - thought it might happen cos a polie is daring to post here, but read it. ...

What the survey results DO say - of the respondents who kite, quite a lot used to windsurf.

There is not a "big chunk of windsurfers gone over to kiting"

That is not saying the same thing.

Loto your assertion is like if we ask all the kiters here if they live in a house, and 95% do. So thus 95% of people who live in houses must kite??

No of course it doesn't. So.... Because 60 people of 203 in the survey used to windsuf and now kite it does not mean 60/203 = 29.5% of windsurfers have stopped and gone over to kiting.


Firstly, your maths is wrong. 203 did the survey. 60 switched, but 14 went back so only 46 actually switched. We also know that 53% are now kiters and 47 are windsurfers so ~ 108 currently kite surf and 95 currently windsurf. This means that originally 154 windsurfed and only 49 kite surfed. So actually 46/154 of windsurfers have stopped and gone over to kiting.

Secondly, whilst not every person who windsurfs has filled in the survey, it is unreasonable to assume such data can be gathered. Accordingly statisticians use whats called a population sample en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29 to make statistical inferences about the whole population. Unless there is a bias in the sample then what LOW said is pretty reasonable.

The only bias I can envisage is that most windsurfers (just like my dad) haven't heard of the internet, so only the under 70's of the community have filled in the survey which may skew towards kiters (and accordingly, ex windsurfing now kiters)- But if you agree with that bias, then you must agree, windsurfers are a dying breed: catch 22 hey?



PeterPaan
NSW, 66 posts
8 Apr 2013 11:47AM
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For any late comers.....the Survey is still Open. I will start to work on the data next weekend. I noticed another 14 new respondents came in overnight.



www.esurveyspro.com/Survey.aspx?id=350e290b-6b91-44de-bebd-d93f54770c1b




Davereid
98 posts
8 Apr 2013 10:39AM
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make that 204 respondents now :P

good work on survey.

Tractorguy
TAS, 542 posts
8 Apr 2013 1:08PM
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+ 1 more and for the record swing between both disciplines.

Stormboy
SA, 86 posts
8 Apr 2013 1:59PM
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great effort

i struggled with 'will u get out of bed for10, 15, 25knots'

i wont move for 15 but 20+ and im on the beach whatever day it is :) I think 20 isthe line for lots who would consider themselves at an intermediate or better level.

seb2
VIC, 231 posts
8 Apr 2013 3:50PM
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Look at the number of topics on seabreeze alone for a potentially more accurate representation of participants in the sport:

Forum posts:
Windsurfing -155313 posts
Kitesurfing - 258409 posts


However there may be a correlation with forum-use/age and age of windsurfers/kite surfers.



Mark _australia
WA, 22337 posts
8 Apr 2013 2:14PM
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rphi6876 said...
Mark _australia said...
Ooh look tons of thumbs down - thought it might happen cos a polie is daring to post here, but read it. ...

What the survey results DO say - of the respondents who kite, quite a lot used to windsurf.

There is not a "big chunk of windsurfers gone over to kiting"

That is not saying the same thing.

Loto your assertion is like if we ask all the kiters here if they live in a house, and 95% do. So thus 95% of people who live in houses must kite??

No of course it doesn't. So.... Because 60 people of 203 in the survey used to windsuf and now kite it does not mean 60/203 = 29.5% of windsurfers have stopped and gone over to kiting.


Firstly, your maths is wrong. 203 did the survey. 60 switched, but 14 went back so only 46 actually switched. We also know that 53% are now kiters and 47 are windsurfers so ~ 108 currently kite surf and 95 currently windsurf. This means that originally 154 windsurfed and only 49 kite surfed. So actually 46/154 of windsurfers have stopped and gone over to kiting.

Secondly, whilst not every person who windsurfs has filled in the survey, it is unreasonable to assume such data can be gathered. Accordingly statisticians use whats called a population sample en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29 to make statistical inferences about the whole population. Unless there is a bias in the sample then what LOW said is pretty reasonable.

The only bias I can envisage is that most windsurfers (just like my dad) haven't heard of the internet, so only the under 70's of the community have filled in the survey which may skew towards kiters (and accordingly, ex windsurfing now kiters)- But if you agree with that bias, then you must agree, windsurfers are a dying breed: catch 22 hey?






I hear what you are saying and it makes sense.

But stats analysis is obviously your forte so how do we go if the numbers of respondents are roughly 50/50, but as the above figure shows the kite forum is WAAAYY more active than the WS forum (especially given it has been here a few years less). So does that mean a higher proportion of kiters are online, or there is more of them here or windsurfers don't give a crap about online stuff?
Which skews the responses?

For example - we have about 30% windsurfers claiming to wavesail. It isn't the case, more like 10% do. But the ones who do wavesail have been doing it longer and are more interested in WS'ing so frequent the forums. Boosts the stat up considerably as respondents here are not representative of their sport's population. Close in many regards but very different in others possibly.


lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
8 Apr 2013 5:44PM
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An online survey is open to whoever wants to participate.
So far 203 people have taken part, 53% kiters and 47% windsurfers.
Fairly even numbers, pretty fair really.
Is this survey only been advertised on Seabreeze?? If so, it is an accurate survey of the seabreeze community and could be broadly used as a guide for all of Australia.
Notice I said broadly, no survey will be 100% accurate because it is only based on the group that took part. In this case, its based on seabreeze social media members like me and yourself. Which, really, is a good cross section of wind junkies both young and old.
So far the survey we are talking about in this thread,,,yes,, a large chunk of windsurfers have changed to kite surfing as the facts have clearly showen.
How did you find out only 10% of windsurfers waveride, not 30%??? Interest thoughts, would be good to see the rest of the findings from that report you have quoted.
In the words of a famous American poet,John McClane,,, "Just the fax ma'am, just the fax." Words of wisdom from the man himself. lol


PeterPaan
NSW, 66 posts
9 Apr 2013 12:33AM
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Interesting....

I now have 273 responses.....and wait.....20 Girls!

When I get the chance later this week, I will also try to present the Girl's responses and compare these with the Boys.

cutting and pasting 273 reports into a spreadsheet will not be fun!!

JOYRIDER
705 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:48AM
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Underoath said...
The elephant in the room is that sadly once the baby boomers stop hitting the beaches, windsurfing will be extinct.

On the plus side, windsurfers have all the flat water at Pinneroo and then kiters can use the whole Pond.



i think you'll find that the people spending money on windsurfing gear is up over kiting. in %.

so its growing again somewhat.


Underoath
QLD, 2433 posts
9 Apr 2013 11:41AM
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JOYRIDER said...
Underoath said...
The elephant in the room is that sadly once the baby boomers stop hitting the beaches, windsurfing will be extinct.

On the plus side, windsurfers have all the flat water at Pinneroo and then kiters can use the whole Pond.



i think you'll find that the people spending money on windsurfing gear is up over kiting. in %.

so its growing again somewhat.





If the above is true, that's good to see growth in the sport.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
9 Apr 2013 5:44PM
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^^^^^Yes I have to admit, it would be a shame to see the number of winsurfers keep rapidly dropping as they have been over the last 5 years around here.
Its a rare thing to see more than one out on the water here these days.
A part of history (which invented kiteboarding) disappearing almost completely from many parts of the coast line is actually pretty sad really.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
12 Apr 2013 9:47PM
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Im still waiting to read the statistics the mark has quoted that only 10% of windsurfers wave ride and not the 30% that this poll has showen? It would be good to see and compare the results from this other survey too see the differences. They might show the actual true figues of Australia and not just the social media survey done on Seabreeze.

Carantoc
WA, 6625 posts
12 Apr 2013 8:37PM
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47% Seabreeze respondents Windsurf
53% Seabreeze respondents Kitesurf

99 pages of second hand kites on Seabreeze Buy and Sell
40 pages of second hand windsurf sails on Seabreeze Buy and Sell

So :

Do kiters replace their gear at 2.8 times the rate windsurfers do ?
Do kiters have 2.8 kites for every sail a windsurfer has ?
Do kiters write 2.5 times more text in an advert, due to their mastery of the English language ?

or

Do 2.8 times as many people take up and then quit kiting as those who quit windsurfing ?

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
12 Apr 2013 11:41PM
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^^^^^Yep, I think you are right.
It proves that there are no beginer windsurfers after second hand gear, ie. no market for it.

While second hand kite gear is in high demand, ie. HUGE market for it. Mostly, it seems, from windsurfers upgrading to kitesurfing.LOL

Carontoc,,,I have a seond hand kite for sale if you like, You know ya want it.



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"First report: Are you a windsurfer or a kitesurfer" started by PeterPaan