Flags - A Reminder

Lifeguards on the Gold Coast definitely enforcing 200 METRES in all directions - many warnings have already been issued - just a matter of time.......

200 metres to the North of the Narrowneck Lifeguard Tower Flags and 200 metres to the South of the Breaker Street Lifeguard Tower Flags and then there is no Narrowneck for Kiting How Ridiculous! If that is the case? Then its a complete Bondi Rescue over reaction IMO When swimmers and board riders are 100,000 fold more at fault for their own actions than 99.9% any Kiters would ever be

But it ain't a police state. If you are within the law the lifeguards have no right to touch you or your equipment.

I don't blame the lifeguards on the Gold Coast if they ban kiting between Surfers and Broadbeach at all. Man i have seen some DUMB **** on my downwinders, especially over the last couple of years. Almost every run i see at least one thing that makes me cringe.
And lets be real here, Kiting Between Narrowneck and Broadbeach SUCKS! There are people everywhere and at least 7 sets of flags, so you basically spend the entire time at least 200 meters out, until south of Broadbeach anyway!
Don't get me wrong I LOVE my downwinders on the Gold Coast, and have for the last 13 years. I would hate not to be able to go from Nobbys to Sheraton Mirage and finish with an all you can eat seafood buffet, but yeah, far to many knobs with NFI, in the most hectic area for the lifeguards to patrol, they have enough on their plates with tourists being caught in rips etc then some kitesufferer gets dragged through the flags with a downed kite added in the mix.

Ps Go and learn up near the Spit where the is never anyone around

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SibboV1 said..
I thought if you signed the Narrowneck book, had a surfboard and were in the "crew", you could kite in the flags?

Green thumb to you sir, for a nice cross-thread tie-in!

Way too many flagged areas all over the place, and they keep them up in the most ridiculous conditions. Long period head high swell, yeah get in there and have a swim kids, we need some more stats to justify our existance.

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Absolutbeginer said..
If it is dangerous then the beach is closed.
Even Surfers was closed for a while on Australia Day due to flash rips.

This really is simple ****. kite responsibly and there is no problem even if you are a little bit on the wrong side of the law.
Be a dick and we all pay.
There is already in place everything in place to destroy kiting on the Gold Coast.

Annoy somebody enough that can flick that switch and we all have problems.

Can somebody please tell me what is so onerous that it spoils your kiting experience by:

Not flying kites above public heads.
Not venturing between the flags.
Not kiting through swimmers.
Not kiting in the Currumbin estuary especially through public.



That really is about the thick of it, yet it seems that this is just too hard to bear by kiters.

The same WOWSER CRAP! Happened with Surfboard Riders in the 60's and they (the Surfboard Riders) just turned REBEL until it was accepted that they were just here to stay and they stayed ever since

If some one is going to flick the switch as you say, then they are very misguided and uninformed. Kiters form a very, very small percentage of problems as opposed to swimmers and boardriders and the many, many incidences caused by them (i.e., the swimmers continually get caught in rips and / or drown themselves from repeatedly doing the wrong thing and going against the Lifeguard and Clubbies orders or rules, or Rock Fishermen and the lives they put at risk by people that jump in to save them), is some one going to flick the switch on them? I think NOT! How you and the rest of the bureaucracy fail to see this and want to single Kiters out is beyond sound reason. I am concerned, it has come about by a minor few, FUN POLICE that have been in the Councils ear because they have a biased agenda to keep certain places as a 100% Surfing Reserve and think they own the place. If they have their way, then the next targets will be the SUPer's, then the Lidder's, then the Dog Walkers and Dog Swimmers, then the boats etc., as they HATE ALL THOSE TOO In other parts of the country it is Beach and Dog Walkers, I hear that want Kiters banned etc. You have to ask yourselves, where does it all stop? Lets just ban everything!

I have experienced first hand myself 'Lifeguard and Clubbies' complete over reaction to somethings very minor as they just wanted to exercise their EGO's on a couple of different occasions. Like I am the BOSS HERE and YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTH-OR-IT-YER! Or like nightclub bouncers "Mate your 1cm on the dance floor with that drink in your hand, now 10 of us are just going to have to smash you for that". I suppose I cannot completely blame them as they sit there for friggin countless hours twiddling their thumbs, adjusting a sign every now and then maybe, just maybe, the slightest of nil harm misdemeanour happens, they then come on all heavy because for once in the day it gives them something to focus their attention on. The vast majority of Boardriders know exactly what I mean here, as they have been dealing with and been on the receiving end of this attitude since the dawn of time

I think also there is a pattern emerging that the Lifeguards and Clubbies have some vague rules or interpretation of rules in their own minds that differ from place to place and person to person. Maybe it is something Kiting Australia needs to clarify with them and all of us to having understanding of what the agreed code or practice is, so that all of us can be on the same page and continue to self regulate if we see any fellow users not following the code (my thoughts are education is key instead of confrontation or draconian measures). Instead of instances of like when I was walking my kite up a beach to launch to get out in a certain part of the break (I must admit, to make it easy on myself) where I walked past a No Swimming part of an Estuary from where I launched my kite from and with very few people on the beach, I was told by a overzealous Lifeguard that I could not walk my Kite up that part of the beach. When I said "Oh, I am sorry and that I was not aware of that By-Law and that could he explain it to me so that I am aware in future of what I am allowed to do and what I am not allowed to do" he got all huffy with me and said "It is a very complicated and tiny rule that is hard to find and that I should put down my Kite and go up and speak with his Boss about it, if I have any issue with it". I said, "Mehhh, maybe next time" and proceeded to do what I was doing at much to the ire of the Lifeguard, I bet I could understand though if there is quite a few people in a flagged area or sunbathing in the flag area on the beach to not walk our kites through whilst in the air but if there is two and a dog, then what they hey?

I have been a Clubby, myself back in the days and do not want to appear as I am Lifeguard and Clubby bashing as I have a lot of respect to the movement and great job they do. I think it's a case here that we are all not perfect and we all make mistakes and stuff-ups occur from time to time. If something is caused by some one intentionally or seriously neglectfully to potentially put themselves or others at danger then it stands to reason that those who do that need to be haled into line. Last but not least, Kiting is no more dangerous than most other sporting or recreational activities, if handled and treated in a sensible manner and one of the most amount of FUN anyone could have out on the water IMO

But the back of the Nutrigrain box said "stay between the flags".

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Dl33ta said..
Dishing out absolute edicts like not flying kites over public heads is nonsense. There are countless situations where it is much safer for the public for you to keep your kite over their heads than to try and land or try and exit via the sea. There are also countless situations where it might be safer to walk your kite through the flags rather than try and land it or get back in the water and get your 200m out. Crowded beach, heavy swell and a solid sweep for example.

As a responsible kiter, maybe you should be asking yourself why you are placing yourself in a situation where kiting through flags or walking up populated beaches with a kite above peoples heads is your best choice at the time?

99 percent of kiters manage to avoid this, what is it you are doing wrong?

I see a kiter that has to do the walk of shame up the beach and I know straight away that they are a relative beginner.
This is exactly the kiter you don't want with a kite above crowds.

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Bigwavedave said..
Lifeguards have no actual authority to seize your equipment or direct you to do anything if you are outside of the black and white flags.

I suppose then that because the no dogs sign is 200m away from the flags that you can have your dog ****e there.
I questioned this myself and the answer is yes the kite can be confiscated.

The reason you may seem to find differing rules from differing places is that in general, if there is no problem there is no need for any enforcement.
Live and let live.
But if you push boundaries on the busy public holidays and place somebody in a position that they know there is a problem and didn't react, then if something does happen, they are in the poo for not acting.


Doesn't matter what past time you take up, access ALWAYS ends up being the biggest battle you will fight as the activity grows.
I personally don't like the graded highways that pass for trails on many MTB parks that are now popular, but I understand the reason and thank those that have achieved recognition as a legal user group so I can still ride the rest of them.
Don't forget that half of the battle is changing the perception of public to accept an activity.

Respect other beach goers, don't do things to attract attention and generally be responsible.
Don't place yourself in situations where negative interactions may occur.
If you can't stay upwind on your surf board and the beach is crowded downwind, then maybe go another place or have a friend land you before walking back upwind.

Again, it really is common sense.
If you launch knowing that you are going to end up placing yourself in a situation like this, then you are just a diick who has knowingly overstepped their skills and placed others at unnecessary risk......as well as risking access for all your mates.

Kitesurfers need to be more responsible for their actions and be aware that if something goes wrong they are the ones responsible.

I agree 100% plus, that you need to stay away from the flags, recently I did the KA instructors course and this was an issue that came up, everyone had slightly different distances in mind (that's right 8 very experienced Kitesurf instructors with over 100 years of combined instructing time between them).
Overall it was agreed that a Kitesurfer should be at least 50m away from any swimmers or surfers.
As for the flags my thoughts are 200m, but that's just my thoughts!!! I'm sure this 200m rule was originally published within the IKO instructors course which I did back in 2003 and has been accepted by the lifeguards too here in Australia.

Take a read of my article published in the latest Freedom Kitesurf Magazine...
www.freedomkitemag.com



I address these issues there...finally hopefully you've got the KA membership so you have some public liability insurance!!!
Peace...
Nate

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Each council has a local law that covers the activities on local beaches and regulates bathing reserves.

Sunshine Coast Council's local law only restricts aquatic equipment within the flags (or black and white flags) and 400m seaward.

Gold Coast is '150m laterally and 200m seaward from low tide mark'.


There are also strict regulations regarding who has authority to move people on and/or seize equipment. Seizing equipment creates a mountain of paperwork for the authorised person. Some lifeguards (mainly the red/yellow volunteers) turn into little nazis on the weekends. Council lifeguards are pretty cool.


There are also state/commonwealth laws protecting citizens from being touched without consent. Even the manner in which a patrol person speaks to someone can be regarded as assault. Seizing an airborne kite from someone walking through the flags could involve assault and/or battery.

It all comes down to courtesy.

On the Sunny Coast most kiters stay out of the flags and bypass bathing reserves out near the shark nets. Really, only stupid people will be in the water when we like to be there. Give stupid people a wide berth.


Sunshine Coast Regional Council Local Law No. 6 (Bathing Reserves) 2011
Division 2 Bathing areas
6 Bathing areas
(1) An authorised person may mark out an area (a bathing area) within a bathing reserve.
(2) The area selected as a bathing area must be the part of the bathing reserve that is, in the authorised person’s opinion, the safest and most suitable for bathing in view of the prevailing conditions.
(3) The bathing area is marked out by placing 2 patrol flags at different points on or adjacent to the foreshore.
(4) The bathing area consists of the area defined by—
(a) an imaginary line between the 2 patrol flags; and
(b) lateral boundaries extending seaward from each patrol flag at right angles from the imaginary line; and
(c) an outer boundary parallel to, and 400 metres to the seaward side of, the imaginary line.

13 Reservation of areas for use of aquatic equipment
(1) An authorised person may temporarily set apart a particular part of a bathing reserve for the use of aquatic equipment of a particular type.
(2) A part of the bathing reserve set apart under this section must be defined by signs and flags or in some other way that clearly indicates the relevant part of the reserve and the use for which it is set apart.
Example—
A surfboard and other watercraft zone may be marked out by placing 2 black and white patrol flags at different points on or adjacent to the foreshore

Read the whole document here

www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/locallaws/

www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/thegoldcoast/bathing-reserve-3267.html


Doesn't take much to look stuff up and actually find some facts.