Select to expand quoteFactory said.. JOYRIDER said.. eppo said..
By Christ you are a bunch of whining bitches at the moment...
What gives...maybe you guys are the dickheads, every thought that?
I agree with Eppo.
Chances are the reason why you have bad experiences with shops, is because your a "shop around", unloyal, pest that wants a deal or a discount for nothing.The simple thing with this bar and lollipop spreader is.... IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, DONT BUY IT!
But your uneducated skeptical opinion stinks and it's killing the fun, good reading that seabreeze used to have.
Rant over
Boy, sorry to outrage the ranters
If you think the issues I've heard are about not receiving appropriate discounts, then you'd be mistaken. I think my description made it clear some of the areas which could use some work. All with very straight forward solutions. If the shops/industry aren’t interested in listening to concerns and only fanboy praise. Well, there’s only one direction their businesses will go. History says and human nature dictates this. Ignore at your peril.
Which reminds me. In addition, I’ve noticed when the industry or a shop is criticised, the backlash can often be abusive, irrational and disproportionate to the criticism. For the type of industry kitesurfing wants to be, it’s a big mistake. To chastise clients and potential clients is sales and marketing death 101. Then the fan boys get involved and you have an overall associated bad experience.
This aside. I don’t see why there is a problem with shopping around. Normal practice in the rest of the retail world. Why should the kiting industry be different (Eppo says they're same same)? Various retailers even promote it by offering price matching. If the industry wants to move into the mainstream, which it does. It has to come to terms with contemporary sales challenges.
In the meantime you both fit in perfectly with the present industry rhetoric. But what would I know hey, opinions are like assholes.
Precisely.
"It's perfectly okay to have your own opinion, as long as it doesn't conflict with mine"...
Like your first post on the matter, (in my opinion... 
) I completely agree. It's also a bonus to read something that doesn't look like it was thrown together by an illiterate (and therefore intellectually frustrated) adolescent..
The problem is, you upset the fanboys.. Then look out, you get called (in all their intellectual splendour) "dickhead" etc. just because your opinion doesn't match theirs, nor their agenda.
Still, around this place, it still seems to be that post count maketh the legend... What would we know, with so relatively few posts 
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..
KiteDesigner said..
Click bar does fix a number of issues, ease of use and safety fun for some people.
Short armed people can now reach power and quickly depower the bar instantly without trying to stretch out and fumble for a strap or fight against a unfriendly below bar depower
Impared people with loss of strength in the arms (I know of 1 with only 30% strength) can power depower the kite much easier. As there is little pull on side lines.
For some this bar is a game changer and fixes. Major issues they had with other bars.
But for me the bar fixes nothing. If I had the cash I would buy it as it's an excellent bar. For now i will stick with a simpler affordable setup, I like having 3 bars. I don't have or want to spend 3000 on 3 bars.
Quit saying 'power' and 'depower' when referring to that peppergrinder lever-action.
It's called trimming. ok
You should know that being a kite designer and all.
DEPOWER
verb~
To adjust or alter (a sail) so that the wind no longer fills it.
Seems legit to me.
There's a heap of words that describe adjustment of the kite, mainly in terms of cause and effect. "Trim" is possibly the most accurate, but also the least informative.
"Pitch" is sort of the same, as is "Angle of Incidence" although pedants will say a kite doesn't have a fuselage.
"Angle of Attack" is one of the results of all this trimming and pitching, and the result of AoA, is usually more or less power. i.e. "Depowering" the kite.
Simplistically you're also changing the bar position so you can also use the term "Reach", although that would confuse sailors. "Sheeting in and out" are also accurate but no kiter really knows what that means.
My complaint about the super simple bar systems (e.g. Cloud Control System), is that you have to set everything before you go out. You can't change your adjustment knots on the fly. I change my trim all the time depending on the conditions and what I am riding.
So, if the Clacker Bar turns out to be any good there's a good chance it is going in my letter to Santa (although I have worked out how to rip off some of the ideas and use them on my old bars that I am about to refurbish.)
As for shops, I want to be able to go in and check out the stuff and not have to dig through a pile of bags and junk to see what it all is. Preferably the details of the new stuff should be on display so I can see how it all works.
I want to talk to someone who actually knows about the gear. At the very least they should have read the web site. Even better they should have taken the gear out for a good testing session and have first hand knowledge.
I want to talk to somebody who understands kiting. I don't want to talk to the windsurfing guy. I really don't want to talk to the freestyle dude about freestyle boards and freestyle kites when I want higher performance, surf and hydrofoil gear.
I want two kinds of discounts. One that is proportional to the amount of money that I am going to spend in a transaction (i.e. buy lots, get a bigger discount), also a smaller discount on occasional purchases to show that they want to establish a relationship and earn my ongoing business. In return I will be a loyal customer, buy the odd thing at full price, refer people to them, and buy shedloads of really expensive stuff from time to time.
I definitely want demos. I definitely want assistance with repairs when necessary.
I want them to take seriously their responsibility to support the products they have sold as they are required to by Australian consumer law. Don't even think about saying "We have to refer it to the manufacturer." or "That's out of warranty, or not covered by warranty."
Hey come on now I didn't say retailers are the same same. I'm saying there are good and bad ones just like in any retail. Find the good ones and develop a relationship but don't lump them all in the 'bad' category. I thought that was pretty clear. Maybe not.
Select to expand quoteeppo said...
Kitesurf retail is like any retail. Same same. I think some of you guys are deluded to be totally honest.
Dude must been talkin about this sir eppo........,.. lol
We playing the contextual semantic game now...
anyhow you grumpy bastards are alright by me. I get it, middle age makes us all miserable pricks.
My Message is pretty clear.
these retailers you all lump into the poor category are real people, trying to make their way in this crazy world just like you and me. they have their faults just like you and me.
This clutter bar feels, after reading all this, a bit like an ex girlfriend already. Excitement gone before I even got to know her well, she looked sexy, yet she was simple and clean. It just did not click in the long run. Perhaps sand got into the transmission. Time to look for a new game changer.
All this whining about the poor industry. You don't have to sell it you know 
In all seriousness. Good products and good service will always sell. Relax
You've always had this means to trim your kite, but most don't and won't use it as they don't understand the basics on opening the kite to the wind, but it's great to show their mates a twiddle knob on the bar
Select to expand quoteeppo said...
We playing the contextual semantic game now...
anyhow you grumpy bastards are alright by me. I get it, middle age makes us all miserable pricks.
My Message is pretty clear.
these retailers you all lump into the poor category are real people, trying to make their way in this crazy world just like you and me. they have their faults just like you and me.
Oh eppo, you need to have a re-read old man. In regards to the "same same" quote; it was clear you were comparing kitesurfing retail to other retail at this point. Strangely enough, so was I. Thought this was clear. But it's all so difficult when there are issues with listening. It's why I likened you to the industry in general. You only hear what you want and already know everything.
Yes, the poor shops. I understand they are doing it tough. Margins are tight and sales are down. Hence why it's ever more important to step back for a moment and listen to customers who might offer advice or raise concerns with their operations. Instead immediately throwing them in the uneducated dickhead realm (which is likely to the contrary). Disregard and return to wanking over pros, industry execs, groupies and hangers on. Ultimately it's the local market/customers which will see them through. I'm not trying to say the industry is full of badies. Some may have lost their way however. Like you said, everyone has their faults. I agree whole heartedly. We usually try to do something about don't we? In the world of business and commerce it's wise to resolve them quickly.
I also like what Kraut implies. Look, no ones forcing these guys to be in the industry btw. It's their risk to operate in such a way in this crrrraaaazy world.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
You've always had this means to trim your kite, but most don't and won't use it as they don't understand the basics on opening the kite to the wind, but it's great to show their mates a twiddle knob on the bar
Please explain.
North is trying to bring cellphone zombies onto the water--people riding around looking at their hands, ignoring what's going on around them. Neat.
Select to expand quoteJOYRIDER said..
DEPOWER
verb~
To adjust or alter (a sail) so that the wind no longer fills it.
Seems legit to me.
If you think your sail is depowered, loop it through the power zone. Your kite is not a sail. If it's in the air, it's flying--it's a wing. You trim it.
Select to expand quoteFactory said..
eppo said...
We playing the contextual semantic game now...
anyhow you grumpy bastards are alright by me. I get it, middle age makes us all miserable pricks.
My Message is pretty clear.
these retailers you all lump into the poor category are real people, trying to make their way in this crazy world just like you and me. they have their faults just like you and me.
Oh eppo, you need to have a re-read old man. In regards to the "same same" quote; it was clear you were comparing kitesurfing retail to other retail at this point. Strangely enough, so was I. Thought this was clear. But it's all so difficult when there are issues with listening. It's why I likened you to the industry in general. You only hear what you want and already know everything.
Yes, the poor shops. I understand they are doing it tough. Margins are tight and sales are down. Hence why it's ever more important to step back for a moment and listen to customers who might offer advice or raise concerns with their operations. Instead immediately throwing them in the uneducated dickhead realm (which is likely to the contrary). Disregard and return to wanking over pros, industry execs, groupies and hangers on. Ultimately it's the local market/customers which will see them through. I'm not trying to say the industry is full of badies. Some may have lost their way however. Like you said, everyone has their faults. I agree whole heartedly. We usually try to do something about don't we? In the world of business and commerce it's wise to resolve them quickly.
I also like what Kraut implies. Look, no ones forcing these guys to be in the industry btw. It's their risk to operate in such a way in this crrrraaaazy world.
Well I can't argue with your main message, well put forward argument. I agree. A more grass roots local focus, focussing on their main market, guys like us is so much needed. Dont worry, those big brand clips make me cringe, and one wonders if they have done a cost benefit analyses on the validity of them.
But pros, industry execs etc are not your local simple retailer.
......yet if a retailer is no good, the market will sink them And the company for that matter. They don't need us to bang on about how to do it right, what would we know? Ever run a kite shop yourself? Tthe majority of us have never run an international kite company either...
yu say Im not listening becuase I already know everything. Yet It's you who is advising how a retail kite shop and a kite company should operate.
So tell me, who thinks he fckn knows everything??
Used the clicker last 2 days and me being fairly new to kiting I just love it. When the kite over powers and I start to poo man one or 2 clicks on the button the shoulders go back and pointing up wind. I am in so much more control . Had a great session up the Pin today solid 25 knot westerly. My 9 had the clicker and I set my 7 with the std North bar. The wind really started to nuke so I went out on the 7 and I just couldn't reach the de power strap when I needed to. So I had to stop pull in and start again. For me the clicker is just so simple and works really well.I've been pulled on my head so many times reaching for the de power strap , never happened once on the clicker. I'm now changing my second bar to one as well
Or... Piros just shorten your throw (using the cleat) so you can reach it. Or don't and buy a new bar. We all want to know how it works after a year or so. Lol.
Yeah maybe in a year different story but for now it's the most single thing I have bought that has improved my kiting. The other thing I liked is with each click it de powers to exactly the same spot every time unlike when you pull in the strap. Re powering is the same if you clicked down 3 times and is too much just turn the dial to bring it back one , all with my hands never leaving the bar. I would never be able to do that with the strap. I tend to go full or half de power then fully release.
I have also started foiling and this will be the best tool for that.
Piros, I would like to hear your feedback on using this when foiling.
I find I'm at the stage where foiling with 2 hands on bar is very awkward. And even reaching the non bar hand towards bar is unbalancing.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said...
Piros, I would like to hear your feedback on using this when foiling.
I find I'm at the stage where foiling with 2 hands on bar is very awkward. And even reaching the non bar hand towards bar is unbalancing.
You'll get past that too
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said...
How can you not reach the strap?
Powered up its out of reach.
Select to expand quotePiros said...Kamikuza said...
How can you not reach the strap?
Powered up its out of reach.
Must be that new elasticized depower rope I've been hearing so much about...
Hello oldies,
I think it's clear all of you arcaic grumpy old farts are not impressed And a bit frustrated and yeah fair enough we all haven't been getting out on the water as much as we would like. Instead sitting typing all the hype on no wind days blah blah blah... I say ROLL ON SPING & SUMMER!!
Yes north Brought out a new bar function, thumbs up
Yes the dumahicky ball thing is different, thumbs up
Yes Naish Brought out quad tex. thumbs up
Without change there can be no progress and all that jazz!
Good on all the company's trying to be different.
Marketing it all them a game changer? That's personal view. But hey it's like a finger in the xsx don't knock it till u try it.
Going forward....
Let's all try the new stuff over the season then make the call !!!!
Can all of you lot give up your whining or they will re name the forum old women's society for winge & moan ... I use to enjoy reading sea breeze while taking a Barry White.
A bit like this ledge!!! Bring back the good old days!!!
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Had a great session up the Pin today solid 25 knot westerly.
Hardly what u would call solid Rob 
Gusty as farq I'd say,,,u must have been clicking the sh!t out of that clickety click thingo....
I hear next year North are bringing out the Jesus bar....it will be split in the middle with the starboard grip having a throttle type action for trimming
Maybe the year after a clutch on the port side.......JEEEEESUS!
You are showing Seaway wind speed . At the pin completely different story ask Jack. FMD you blokes carry on with some Sh!t.
Yes it was definitely 25 knots on average at the pin. Gusty, but moderate for a westerly .
Click bar is awesome
