I am just learning and have been using my instructor's Bow Kite but I have a C Kite and am a little unsure about using it as my instructor has said that it isn't as safe as the Bow Kite because the safety is different. Can anyone please elaborate on this as I have been told not to hook up the chicken loop and donkey dick and I would really like to go out and use my kite?
What kinda of c-kite do you own? I've got 05 c-kites and I don't use the donkey dick but that just a personal preferance, I'd don't find that I need it. Just remeber not to pull down on the bar too hard so that you unhook.
I have a Naish Boxer 8m. it's either 05 or 06, (i don't have the receipt handy) I bought it 2nd hand from a shop. I was told not to hook up because it won't depower the same way that the Bow Kite does (by just letting the bar go, which I have been told not to do with my kite)
Do you have the 5th line Boxer?
If you find your self needing to go onto the safety you just activate the safety system and go onto the 5th line. If you haven't used your 5th line system yet get some one to show you there easy to use if you know how. Easing the bar out will depower the kite if you have the trim strap pulled on it just won't depower as much as a bow kite will.
You should see if you can find an instructor that will be willing to help learn how to use your gear. It's great your taking lessons but make sure there relevant to the gear your going to use.
Cool. Thanks for your help. I will have to see if my instructor will at least just give me a run down on my kite. Thanks heaps
Maybe your instructor is trying to sell you a new kite? The older kites were considered Ok when they came out and your kite is only a couple of years old. I have a 4 line 10m boxer and its fine as long as you understand the safety system. Sure the new kites are safer but will we be told in two years that 2008 kites are unsafe? Be aware if you launch without hooking in you won't have any bar sheeting control on the kite which means unless you compensate with the trim strap the kite will be fully powered. This will mean it will probably fly back, and bounce on its back edge before powering up directly downwind which is dangerous. When you are launching hooked in you can balance the kite at the edge of the wind window by pushing or pulling the bar away from you. If you need to totally depower the kite you pull the safety on the chicken loop. Get an instructor who will show you this with your kite. Its best to understand how it works rather than just relying on the new instructors kite. This knowledge will serve you well when you fly any kite.
Why didn't your instructor teach you on the kite you were going to use????
I'm a bit confused on why someone would teach you on a bow if you owe a C (unlesss you bought the kite after the lesson, but then one would have expected you to buy what you knew and were comfy with)...
I'd recommend you take another lesson with your C-kite rather than working things out on your own. Your instructor should have offered to, really... Nothing's that tricky about C-kites and they're perfectly safe if you know how to open your quick release... I believe you'd be better off having someone running you through on your first go tho. You will be more comfortable as well.
Hi Mytchook,
Any decent instructor will only teach on the safest kites, and that means hybrid/SLE style kites. It's obvious, they must use the safest equipment whilst you find your feet.
We teach on SLE style kites and will not use a students kite (unless it is the same as what we are teaching on) until the third lesson. It's at that time they will have sufficient skills to fly and understand the kites and the way kites fly.
We generally get students up and riding on our gear and then show them the differences between the SLE and "C" kites. Primarily the differences are water relaunch, solo launch and self rescue. We usually teach these things for free once a student has done a lesson with us on our gear, so they can go ahead and priactice on their own gear without killing themselves.
New gear is definately safer and the progreession is way faster on SLE. Older gear is fine too as we all rode it, gees I even learned and spent a season on 2 line kites in the beginning, but 4 lines were safer and now Bows are safer again. Personally I'll be glad to see the end of the no big depower "C" kites as they seem to be ending up in the hands of newbies with little money cause people are practically giving them away. But thats another thread.
Good winds, (flame on!)
These days most kites have gone and become more "C" shaped. Some "C" shaped kites have bridles, some have 5 lines. You can do more stuff with a 5 line kite.
Look here www.newkiteboarding.com/latest
Best bet is to hook in to all kites to launch, theres more control being hooked in.
Also only hook your leash to a flagging safety system when on the beach.
The suicide leash set up is a bit dangerous if your flying a kite with no control.
Suicide leash.
seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=6583
If you release this suicide leash it will flag the kite for you.
There is not a big difference between C kites and bow kites,as far as the general operation.
The hook in depower is the same ,except a Bow has a lot more depower. You let the bar go,the kite will fall out of the sky.Providing that you use it in a sensible wind range.
Only other major difference is relaunching. C kites are quite hard to relaunch,while Bows launch by just pulling a rear line.
I think it's quite funny.... I have had 3 students in the last 2 months present me with exactly the same kite that they bought on ebay before their first lesson. It was a blue and white Wipika Airblast 10. This kite has now been sold (on ebay again) to some other poor sucker wanting to get into the sport. No functioning safety, no instructions. It's a giant revenue merry-go-round.
I love teaching on SLE/Bow/Hybrid kites. I don't mind teaching on C kites. People seem to find their rhythm a lot faster with SLE's. The depower function smooths out the mistakes. C kites don't leave much room for error. I agree with Kitehard.... students' own kites should stay in the bag until their skills are sufficient to tackle their own kite.
Don't blame the shops. Some customers walk in demanding a kite to suit their budget. If all they can afford is a second hand C then that's what they walk out with. The shops have bills to pay. However, the customer should always be provided with specific instructions to operate their equipment.
Gees Sprucey, take a chill pill mate. It's hilarious that forum junkies take a swipe at schools and shops for creating uncontrollable crowds at their local, for increasing prices on new gear and now it seems for de-valueing second hand gear. LOL
Allow me to explain something to you. As a professional instructor you have a legal "duty of care" to your customers. That duty of care is to take all reasonable action to ensure the safety of the student whilst in your care. When a safer piece of equipment becomes available on the market, it is decidedly prudent to offer this equipment to the customer to further increase the level of safety, fun and to help maximize progression.
I also have a 9m Airush Reactor I cannot hardly give away, so I'm in the same boat. "C" kites are in the vast shrinking minority so we offer gear that suits the majority. I don't want to keep festy old 4 line kites around in my trailer for the 1 in 50 people who have old redundant gear.
If you re-read excerts from my post below, you will note we DO teach for FREE the differences on a customers kite after we have given them a lesson and they can fly the kite competently. It is OUR school policy not to use customers kites as we believe they are not as safe as the ones we supply, this just further reduces the risk of incident.
it was onshore and frontal on friday, what did i take out?? my old C kite, it has 5 line and when i see it all going to **** i can rely on it. the depower on my 07 kite isnt the be all and end all for safety, personally i find it dangerous unless i want to completely lose the kite.
the depower is all well and good but once you get to the point where its not going to work any more you have to flag the kite and thats a bitch of a job with the SLE.
im finding myself craving the NEW 7 / 11 combo as its exactly what i want; 5 line, stable, one pump, uncluttered and all the depower you should need.
or the REV for awesomeness but its a SLE and ive had enough of them.
Hey Kitecrazy,
If you are at the point where your SLE no longer depowers enough to be safe, it would be fair to say that you are using it well above it's recommended wind range.
An SLE kite will flag exactly the same as a 4 or 5 line kite provided you attach your leash to a front or back line sliding safety system (preferably front to reduce spiraling).
Relying soley on a kites ability to depower when you let go the bar (not using a safety leash which flags the kite through a front or rear line sliding safety system) is a bad idea. If you end up with a tangle, as can happen, which prevents the bar from sliding out, or the kite inverts and tangles the bridle around the trailing edge of the kite, then you have no depower and no leash to depower or flag the kite in such an emergency. Your only option is to release the kite and hope it doesn't collect someone else downwind.
Riding a leash connected directly to the chicken loop is still a suicide leash whether it be on a SLE or any other kite for that matter, and should not be considered as safe as a proper sliding safety system.
Getting caught out in ballistic conditions can happen and should only be attempted with a proper flagging leash system.
Good winds,
Ease up on kitehard.....
Some facts: he doesnt own a shop.
he instructs instructors on the most up-to-date, safest kites.
he always gives free advice for students that have bought a C kite
and will happily teach on one once the student is capable enough.
Kitehard is the best and safest instructor in my opionion in WA that I
have seen.
Relax guys who are trying to sell their old C kites, at least you didnt buy a link.....
BTW, the fuel rev is the best 7m I have ever flown.
as if i would ride an SLE on one line ditch. firstly my leash doesnt reach the centre line ring and secondly it spins and becomes tangled especially in the surf.
I would obviously move the leash to the side line o **** handle if the conditions required but i wouldn't go out if i knew the whole time i would have it there.
if im not making any sense then why does airush make the vapour?
yes i would have been over powered but i still find the same thing when im perfectly powered, it was on shore and frontal so i wasnt going to be taking risks.
anyway, this was a topic about whether a C kite is dangerous and all i was saying was i feel safer on a good C kite rather than a kite with a bridal and no fifth line.
chook, dunno if your still reading this thread but you will be fine on the kite so long as you have your safety leash attatched to the 5th line, and practice using it a few times.... as far as donkey dicks go, if there is no way to quick release the chicken loop when you are hooked in with the donkey in place, then that is a " problem ".
You will probably find the relaunch on the 5th line kite after you have activated the safety to be a lot quicker than on the bows or 5th line hybrids.
nick
Hey Guys,
Where has the love gone in this forum? Wow, everyone is so testy 
Any kite is cool to fly if flown with an adequate leash system and the safety systems are up to date.
The Vapor is what I call a supported leading edge kite, it's just not bridled. In my understanding, any kite that requires the 5th to fly properly, maintain structural form, or to enable additional depower in normal flying mode is a supported Leading Edge (SLE).
A lot of different understandings of terminology these days. I wasn't suggesting you would choose to fly massively overpowered and am sure you would attach your leash to a sliding system in the event of a foreseen mishap.
Does anyone think I am only speaking to one individual when I type these posts? There are hundreds of noobs browse these forums looking for information and tips.
My original point was that 4 line "C" kites with limited depower are not as safe as hybrid/SLE/bow.
And thats way more than my 2 cents worth.
Good winds, bring back the love!
Any kite is cool to fly if flown with an adequate leash system and the safety systems are up to date.
and i get confused when i hear people call a c kite a SLE, why don't we call a non- flat kite that is c-shaped, without pulleys/multi bridles a c-kite, a flat kite a bow, and anything in-between a hybrid?
Far out, what a read.
Me thinks it is still to cold in WA....oh when will Summer come?
Hey Crazy, KH is correct about flagging these 4 line hybrid/SLE's to one line, just like on a C. If you are in doubt about the severity of the wind or your skills, best to tag the leash to one of the lines when flying a 4 line hybrid/SLE. So what if spinning is restricted, you are going out ready to release anyway because the weather is nuking.
And guys and gals, I don't think kiting is a "nickle" sport really....you get what you pay for.
I don't know how this has ended up being so focused on how much someone has spent on their kite. All I wanted to know really was about the safety and differences between a C-Kite and a Bow Kite. I know that the C-Kites are cheaper but that is not the reason I bought it, I asked a lot of questions and did a bit of research on the topic before I bought my gear and when I bought it I also paid for lessons and was told that my kite won't be a problem as long as I get some proper instruction. I am confident with flying a bow kite but now I want to use MY kite which happens to be a C-kite and all I wanted was a bit of advice and helpful tips before I go out (with my instructor) again.
Sorry if I sound a bit bitchy or defensive but I don't see why it matters what someone has paid for a kite. I just like to learn as much as I can about this sport because it is kind of addictive and I can sit on the beach for hours just watching ppl do it, but I would much rather be the one out there and not the one on the beach watching.
Your not bitchy at all mytchook. Get out there on your kite and have a blast. C Kites are great fun and there is a trend back to this kite style because of the direct feel you get. Surely they they will make a great come back like telemarking has in skiing.
I love flying different sorts of kites and enjoy then all. It is all what you are in to I guess...some people even make their own kites and boards. Just get to know the gear and how it works.
