Select to expand quoteDave Whettingsteel said..
I suspect Sir Rowdy will hate this idea, but whatever Ill put it out there!
It strikes me that the big problem for an auto-release function is the wide range of variables, hence hard to set it up to release when it goes to sh**t, but not release during normal operations.
I wonder if a PLC (Programmable logic controller) controlled release mechanism of last resort would improve things. You could plug in data such as rider weight, kite size, rider style, wind conditions etc which it would use to calculate an auto-release strain. You could even include sensors for data such as being over land or water. If over land, it could cut release strain by 50% for example. Directional data could be factored in, eg if you are going straight down wind, release strain is reduced. An accellerometer could detect a big impact maybe, and factor into release strain.
It would need a proper research project to pull the elements of data, sensors, ruggedizing etc together. The concept would be similar to a car airbag in that the rider should do everything possible to avoid an accident but as a last resort it could be a level of protection.
I think cost and complexity are probably the biggest negatives for this idea!
Never mind the strain gauges, accelerometers, land/water sensors, data inputs etc... Just make it voice activated and programmed to release when it 'hears' the word "Faarrrkkkk!" 
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..
I think you're missing my point.
I get ya. ^^^
The most important safety system is the one that's located between your ears.
And unbridled stoke is a line drawn in the sand ...
A blurred boundary that separates calculated risk from jeopardy.
Twice l have deployed the QR and the lines jammed up preventing the kite flagging out on one line resulting in the kite looping and the bar out of reach. The first time the leash release was on the wrong end so l could not reach it the kite looped+- 14 times before the flag out line broke.
Second time l had the kite leash release correctly fitted and got into trouble pulled the QR and again the lines got tangled kite did not flag out 100%
resulting in kiteloops and me heading for a steep drop over sharp rocks. l released the kite leash and the kitemare was over.
Moral of the story is make sure your leash release is at the right end and familiarise yourself with exactly where it is eg on the left or right handside of your harness and how to use it some are push away some are pull towards you. l do not handlepasses so l attach my leash release to my harness on my
right handside to the ring that the hanlepass leash connects to.
As soon as you deploy your QR get ready to activate your leash release if need be.
Note the above happened with two different kite brands.
How about a user selectable dual mode safety system.
Mode 1 is for launching and landing it will have an auto release if a certain amount of strain is applied.
Mode 2 is for normal kiting where the user would need to manually release the safety as is presently done.
Just some ideas
Far less riders use them today compared to back in the day for consideration:
Unhooked launching and landing (don't hold on super hard) - this also ensure u are on a suitable sized kite.
Always in a position whne u let go that your kite will fully onto single line flagging leashes or 5th line - not intimidated by some of the newer systems that rely on greater depower but that do not have tis feature.
Ditching kite into water before you reach beach if things are looking dodgy (eg incoming front)
Making an individual decision on if it is a good idea to ride today/good launching landing spot without relying so muchon comments/hype from others.
All good points. Variability of the situation ( ability , conditions , weight , the ability of the gear to give you a break when in trouble etc ) just cannot be fully taken into account.
Coming from windsurfing , I have always said that there is some really dodgy elements to kiting. In the plain light of day , don't underestimate it's inherent dangers.
In windsurfing , apart from getting caught up in the harness lines or getting hit on the head you can just ditch it when in trouble.
With kiting , the problem can just keep getting worse to critical from a simple mistake. We laugh it off in our stories but it's serious stuff.
On safety systems -snow ski bindings are made to release when under a certain amount of pressure. The pressure is adjustable according to your size and your ability. Hard to do with this sport I reckon ?
The greater your ability the tighter you make them as you put them under more pressure therefore the less chance of releasing when it hits the fan.
I have noticed that some experienced riders choose to go suicide even if they are not doing tricks as the brand really doesn't provide for the best safety release device. Don't think that's good enough in my book in light of the recent events.
So given the limitations safety systems currently allow. it comes back to thought processes to give the best safety possible.
The process we take should be much like flying a plane -preflight checks of conditions , location , safe launch and land ,idiots on the beach and water etc. We know flying a plane can go wrong but at least we can minimise problems.
Sounds boring and too logical I know , but there it is
Then get out and have a blast.
Select to expand quoteWeirdEd said..sir ROWDY said..Puetz said..
... I think this is a great discussion,,, out of 1000 ideas we may just come up with a practical idea that might work, who knows! 
The only practical (and foolproof) idea is to properly assess the conditions and risk factor at any given location. All this other cr@p will make little difference.
I agree that properly assessing the situation is the most important aspect but I still think that having redundant safety releases is a good thing. On one occasion I found myself with a looping kite and my Slingshot QR was jammed for whatever reason (I always rinse my gear and pull the safety before lauching but this time I forgot). I got away because the kite hit the water and I used that opportunity to pull out the donkey dick, unhook and let it fly.
I am currently looking at this Mystic hook release spreader bar but can't find high resolution pictures that show whether the flimsy release pin is under a lot of load or not. The demo video shows that it works well in 10 or 15kn but that is not a representative situation. For 70 bucks I think I will give it a shot.
People die while kiteboarding because they a) drown or b) impact with a solid object. I think if you hit something and are unconscious it's pretty much game over. I just want a second chance to release in case the primary QR fails if you get lofted or dragged under water. I might not have the time for that or my helmet might not be strong enough to save me but at least I have tried.
... yeah of course you assess the situation but even that is flawed, we need a safety to be completely independant of what you or I call dangerous, and even then you might be in a 'mood' which shifts your levels of dangerous too. There are soooo many variables indeed and they need to be minimized.
A hands free, pre-programmed reliable safety system is the next step in kite design, how it's done God only knows but throwing idea's around is why forums discussions like this are cool. I believe some smart cookie out there might just run with one of the ideas and be the next legend of the sport, we just got to think outside the box.
cheers for now,
Robbie
Select to expand quotePuetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...
at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.
Just thinking ....
Select to expand quoteSkid said..Dave Whettingsteel said..
I suspect Sir Rowdy will hate this idea, but whatever Ill put it out there!
It strikes me that the big problem for an auto-release function is the wide range of variables, hence hard to set it up to release when it goes to sh**t, but not release during normal operations.
I wonder if a PLC (Programmable logic controller) controlled release mechanism of last resort would improve things. You could plug in data such as rider weight, kite size, rider style, wind conditions etc which it would use to calculate an auto-release strain. You could even include sensors for data such as being over land or water. If over land, it could cut release strain by 50% for example. Directional data could be factored in, eg if you are going straight down wind, release strain is reduced. An accellerometer could detect a big impact maybe, and factor into release strain.
It would need a proper research project to pull the elements of data, sensors, ruggedizing etc together. The concept would be similar to a car airbag in that the rider should do everything possible to avoid an accident but as a last resort it could be a level of protection.
I think cost and complexity are probably the biggest negatives for this idea!
Never mind the strain gauges, accelerometers, land/water sensors, data inputs etc... Just make it voice activated and programmed to release when it 'hears' the word "Faarrrkkkk!"
Haha, I reckon I could program a "faaaarkkkkk" detector into the sensor package!
Select to expand quoteDolphins said..
Moral of the story is make sure your leash release is at the right end and familiarise yourself with exactly where it is eg on the left or right handside of your harness and how to use it some are push away some are pull towards you.
Good advice, nothing worse than a wave bearing down on your kite and the leash QR is on the wrong way and out of reach. Did that the other day, thankfully the waves were small. I ended up doing the superman pose towards the kite to reduce the strain on all concerned but it certainly made me take a good hard look at my safety checklist at the start of each session.
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..Puetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.Just thinking ....
Easy! What you're describing is a small-shot charge...shoot it down. Could be used against jetskis as well. Brilliant.
Select to expand quoteWeirdEd said..waveslave said..Puetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.Just thinking ....
Easy! What you're describing is a small-shot charge...shoot it down. Could be used against jetskis as well. Brilliant.
... and people who short tack!!!! 
Im a windsurfer and have no knowledge of kiting equipment Many other people on the beach probably have no kiting experience.
What ever the device i think it should be a clear red color with an arrow with the words emergency written on it.
If in the event where a person of the general public was to render assistance (first on scene) an emergency.
Eliminating the DANGER is the first issue one must deal with.This would be the KITE.
I think what you are looking at here is a overview of safety systems and maybe an Australia standard.
A quick release on a kite may not be used if the kiter is injuired, If this is the case then the clear labeling of such a device is essential for the public response..
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..Puetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...
at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.
Just thinking ....
Never in my life did I think I would agree with Waveslave on anything but this idea has some merit. Could a small device be designed to fit over an inflate/deflate valve that on receipt of a signal releases the valve? The remote need only be the size of a garage remote and can clip onto a harness or strapped to a kiters wrist like a watch. And at the kite end it surely can be designed to weigh only one or two hundred grams and be designed to be retrofitted to the few valve types out there? It might need a little bit of mods to the kite like a sewn in sleeve or Velcro pad to support it?
Can be self activated or activated by others? If you have pinched off a couple of struts on set-up the kite will still afford some buoyancy after.
Or a sawn-off .410 strapped to your leg might also work...
in the safety world, hierachy of hazard control goes
1.Elimination - the best as Sir Rowdy says dont kite risky spots/conditions, or dont kite at all!!
2.Substitution - kite somewhere else or take up windsurfing
3.Engineered controls - current discussion
4.Administrative controls - eg education/training
5.Personal protective equipment eg helmets impact vests etc - protection when the **** has already happened
being there on Sunday and seeing the consequence reinforces elimination as the best strategy, something a few of us decided upon
it is a spot with no margin for error in a westerly and very sadly marc paid the ultimate price
accidents are also a coincidence of events eg if a lull instead of a gust hit marc maybe no harm done, but all the factors lined the wrong way, but go back to the risk assessment of the location - eliminate kiting there as first step
didnt WAKSA have their CLEAR checklist at one stage??
diving medicine and aviation and other industries examine their accidents to nth degree to improve safety and so should we
more importantly we need to learn from that process
people will still dive with asthma or kite where they wish but they take on board that risk...
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said..waveslave said..Puetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...
at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.
Just thinking ....
Never in my life did I think I would agree with Waveslave on anything but this idea has some merit. 
... Go hold partially (or fully) deflated kite in 40knots and see how effective it is at killing the power. If anything this system has the potential to make a bad situation worse.
Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.
Select to expand quoteBeaglebuddy said..
Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.
Yeah because it never pulls that way when someone boosts... think again.
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..Chris6791 said..waveslave said..Puetz said..
we just got to think outside the box.
What's say ....
You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?
Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...
at the push of a button,
at the shift of a lever.
Just thinking ....
Never in my life did I think I would agree with Waveslave on anything but this idea has some merit. ... Go hold partially (or fully) deflated kite in 40knots and see how effective it is at killing the power. If anything this system has the potential to make a bad situation worse.
It still won't be pretty but I suppose it could be another last ditch option when all the other control options have failed or it's too late to implement them. From a purely theoretical point of view the idea has some basis but when you throw in human nature it would probably fall over, it will cost more and people are reluctant to pay more for something they think they don't need, and if the rider has already missed the opportunity to pull their QR why add another release that probably won't get triggered until it's too late.
I agree with your hierarchy of control, is well established in industry and the private sector, but in this environment of the individual rider it's almost impossible to alter their behaviour unless they choose to. Even if legislation was brought in it would be ignored by a significant percentage, we all enjoy the freedom this sport affords. We can't even keep the few rogues out of the flagged beaches in summer.
I'm not being critical of Marc, I wasn't there and by all accounts he was a genuinely safety conscious rider and a combination of many factors caused his accident to happen, but any control measure or engineered solutions need to be applied across the whole population of kiters not to an individual incident.
It will always come back to self-awareness, kiting to the conditions and location and not being afraid to sit on the beach. And if you are in the poo pull the QR immediately. I must also admit I've been critical of people pulling their QR simply because they couldn't relaunch their kite in the water and other trivial non-emergency reasons, I'll rethink that, I don't think I will be critical of someone pulling their QR ever again.
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..Beaglebuddy said..
Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.
Yeah because it never pulls that way when someone boosts... think again.
Watch the videos of people getting dragged around, the initial pull when the person is upright is straight away from the body, this throws them onto the ground then as the kite starts to drag them off it is pulling straight up on the hook as the person is prone on the ground, not sure what you are seeing.
Select to expand quoteBeaglebuddy said..sir ROWDY said..Beaglebuddy said..
Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.
Yeah because it never pulls that way when someone boosts... think again.
Watch the videos of people getting dragged around, the initial pull when the person is upright is straight away from the body, this throws them onto the ground then as the kite starts to drag them off it is pulling straight up on the hook as the person is prone on the ground, not sure what you are seeing.
And this differs how exactly from normal use???
Swooping the kite - initial pull = straight away from the body.
Doing a boost - pull = straight up.
See what I'm getting at?
Leaning back just a bit when boosting, when violently out of control dragged, the bar and lines are about hitting the rider in the face.
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..... Go hold partially (or fully) deflated kite in 40knots and see how effective it is at killing the power. If anything this system has the potential to make a bad situation worse.
So dude,
You've flown a deflated rag in 40 knots, have you ? ^^^
lol.
You never get 40 knots in your town, man.
So I'm calling BS on your wild assumption, Rowdy.
Let's conduct the experiment, shall we.
You first.
ive flown a leaky best waroo in 40knots.
they had battens for a reason.
does this count...
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..
You never get 40 knots in your town, man.
True, we rarely get 40knots here although it does happen on occassion, however - I travel the world the whole year almost non-stop going to the windiest places on earth, so it wouldn't be a far stretch of the imagination to think that at some point my kite has deflated on me in 40knots and I know what I'm talking about... Obviously that would make far too much sense though.
OK if you don't like my idea how's this, inside the harness hook auto release there would be an incline meter, a mechanical device that would only allow the auto release to activate when the user is in a face down position.
So user is boosting and CL is pulling on hook near straight upward we get no release but user is pulled forward and falls prone position, hook is being pulled from about same straight upward position as kite bounces along the ground but it releases. because incline meter has determined hook is now pointed downward. The incline meter can use gravity to determine position. A body drag would not activate but a stronger yank would.
^^^^^
What about if we filled the kite with a hydrogen, oxygen mixture, the kite would fly so much better, then in an emergency have a battery to give a spark in the leading edge so that the kite would spontaneously combust and stop pulling. 
Select to expand quotejuicerider said..
^^^^^
What about if we filled the kite with a hydrogen, oxygen mixture, the kite would fly so much better, then in an emergency have a battery to give a spark in the leading edge so that the kite would spontaneously combust and stop pulling.
Like this? www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/General-Discussion/Chat/experimental-kite-design-failure/
Yea that's it, you could also have a remote operated switch that you could leave with your fellow kitesurfers, so that if you are in danger, or are court short tacking; boom, game over, and everybody is safe.
Maybe at some WA spots a remotely operated auto combustion safety device should be compulsory for visitors unfamiliar with the local set up.
