It has been brought to my attention recently that it appears we need more structure at our local .
Like a club environment where kiters opinions, values, concerns about safety can be discussed , regulating current kiters , and newbys wanting to learn the sport at our location.
The reason for this post is the realisation that i am being "regulated" in the path i should take in my kiting by the people kite with.
At first because everyone is different it can appear as tension or my way is better than yours,or through a path of safety comes first for kiters and more importantly others who are unaware and know little or nothing about the dangers of our sport.
Due to the nature of this sport we like to kite when the winds up rather than talk about things we expect others to know.
The reality is people just wanna kite...and not complicate kiting their day trying to explain concerns or dangers that should be obvious to the unaware.
Its difficult to regulate safe kiting at times and you can only encourage others you kite with on a regular basis to be as safe as possible and minimise wrisks of any kind.
And then you get kiters from other locations or newbies turn up and have little knowledge or care of what is safe or where.
Like which is worse...
Someone launching safely in a semi crowded area mitigates a certain amount of danger.
Or
An experienced kiter watching that launch but later complaining that it was not the best thing to do at the time.
Yet not going over to help make it as safe as possible.
Improved club like structure were people can share their concerns add positive input and collectively improve moral is what im saying.. so future kiters can learn safely and feel included is more to the point.
Theres always going to be wrisks with what we do but education is what we should promote in a more advanced form than what we have right now.
A few locals cant control the masses but could initiate a positive begining to how our sport will grow in our part of the world.
Our location is stunning and within 15 yrs our population is on track to jump 20% from recent estimates.
Feel free to comment.
Cheers Dan.
If you apply common sense the sport is self regulating similar to sailing, windsurfing, surfing and a myriad of other water and non-water sports. Those common sense approaches and general rules of the water should be more than enough to avoid any problems at your local and allow you to sort out most if not all problems. A basic laundry list is as follows:
* Stay well away from beginners and give them the room they need to enjoy a stress free session.
* Do not launch or land in an area where you may endanger the public if something goes wrong.
* Do not boost upwind of kiters unless you have ample room to land and if something goes wrong you don't endanger other riders.
* Kiter on starboard tack has right of way unless launching off the beach then kiter heading out has right of way.
* After launching get out of the lunch area as quickly as possible.
* Don't stand around on the beach having a conversation with your kite in the air while others are trying to go out and come in.
* After landing ensure your lines are well taken care of and don't clog up the launch area.
* If the launch area is small pack up one kite before setting up another.
* Don't short tack other kiters.
* If kiting at an unfamiliar spot respect the kiters who kite there regularly and the fact that your actions if disrespectful or dangerous may cost them their sport if they are banned because of your actions.
* If you have an issue with someone or a group of people sort it out there and then in a positive, respectful way rather on SB 
Like I said this is mostly common sense. I would suggest by reading other threads and what you have written here that your attitude is your biggest problem with the other kiters at your local. you might want to stop being a victim and start being a positive member of your community.
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
Kitebt said: "* Stay well away from beginners and give them the room they need to enjoy a stress free session."
I love you for saying this! 
It is so stressful trying to relaunch, board retrieve, and water start when you have other kiters cutting up close to you. We do our best to stay to out of the way, but are not very manoeuverable yet 
.
Select to expand quoteBronnieren said..
Kitebt said: "* Stay well away from beginners and give them the room they need to enjoy a stress free session."
I love you for saying this! It is so stressful trying to relaunch, board retrieve, and water start when you have other kiters cutting up close to you. We do our best to stay to out of the way, but are not very manoeuverable yet .
Really. Then why do I see beginners body dragging through a lineup of experienced kiters laying down tricks? Why do I see morons teaching their buddies within this lineup...sometimes upwind, so THEN their 'student' rolls through the lineup, invariably dropping their kite and causing all sorts of mayhem. You may do your best, but this is not universal.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Bronnieren said..
Kitebt said: "* Stay well away from beginners and give them the room they need to enjoy a stress free session."
I love you for saying this! It is so stressful trying to relaunch, board retrieve, and water start when you have other kiters cutting up close to you. We do our best to stay to out of the way, but are not very manoeuverable yet .
Really. Then why do I see beginners body dragging through a lineup of experienced kiters laying down tricks? Why do I see morons teaching their buddies within this lineup...sometimes upwind, so THEN their 'student' rolls through the lineup, invariably dropping their kite and causing all sorts of mayhem. You may do your best, but this is not universal.
I agree eppo. Morons teaching their buddies is a real problem. In my experience a beginner left to their own devices would see the experienced kiters and want to stay well away from them as well as a professional instructor would do the same. When I learnt I was taken out in a boat and dumped in the middle of Botany Bay in Sydney where I was well away from everything and everyone. Only when I had the basics well down. i.e. I was up and being able to hold upwind did my instructor take me to the beach where there where other kiters. The problem you have when someone teaches their friend is they are partly trying to show off their own skills so they throw the beginner in with everybody else which then causes chaos.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Really. Then why do I see beginners body dragging through a lineup of experienced kiters laying down tricks?
...Ummm, cause they're beginners and don't have full control yet.....Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Why do I see morons teaching their buddies within this lineup...sometimes upwind, so THEN their 'student' rolls through the lineup, invariably dropping their kite and causing all sorts of mayhem. You may do your best, but this is not universal.
...ummm, the solution has already been mentioned, stay away from beginners.....
Select to expand quoteGreenarrowz said..
It has been brought to my attention recently that it appears we need more structure at our local .
I stopped right there and gave you a red-thumb. *cough* what crap
Select to expand quoteGreenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
Actually, I had the same attitude as you when I first started.
"Ohh look love... that kiter is running with the kite along the beach.... bloody idiot... so dangerous...."
or
"What is he doing!? Pulling kite down wind as beach goers are walking along?.... wtf"
blah blah etc etc.
After a few years you realise it comes down to - each to their own.
Each to their own is Anachy.
Only works if everybody has their own territory.
Universal rules are already there, its just that noone respects them.
If you are from out of town, ask about any particular local problems and required behavior to prevent problems.
Kiting is on the cusp of being popular and not just an outlier.
Growing pains are going to happen, but their is already everything in place for it to grow without problem.
Stop seeing the problem as everybody elses responsibility and take action yourself.
Calll the fruckwit a fruckwit and not just wander away to avoid trouble.
Eventually they will get it if everybody comes down on them.
Sorry, but i am a beginner and the last thing i would want to do is body drag myself downwind through a bunch of experienced kiters Or hog take off areas etc.
If the conditions, crowdedness is too much for your skill level, then sit down and watch or help launch and land a few kites.
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..eppo said..
Really. Then why do I see beginners body dragging through a lineup of experienced kiters laying down tricks?
...Ummm, cause they're beginners and don't have full control yet.....eppo said..
Why do I see morons teaching their buddies within this lineup...sometimes upwind, so THEN their 'student' rolls through the lineup, invariably dropping their kite and causing all sorts of mayhem. You may do your best, but this is not universal.
...ummm, the solution has already been mentioned, stay away from beginners.....
You theory is sound, but generally speaking the best 'water' is where the more advanced guys are running a rotation, going downwind with each trick and so on. Then we have the beginner deciding to learn in the middle of that. Are the 5-10 riders in a well organised rotation then to all move...is that your suggestion? Not gonna happen.
Be honest the beginners are not the only problem. To me its the person who can stay upwind but that's about it.
They slot in this rotation, but don't travel downwind...turn straight around (stoked they can stay upwind) and ride straight into the mad hackers barreling at them ready to pull the trigger. it's not done on purpose they just don't have a clue the space needed to throw down more advanced tricks.
Select to expand quoteGreenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
you know what Dan ...You cant leave the beach when someone is riding a wave, 20 mt out ,right in front of you just because you read the f..king hand book.
It was impossible for me to turn off that wave because the shape and wind direction would not allow it. Some one with your abundance of knowledge should have seen that.
If you had waited 2 more seconds ,which you could have done easily as You were safe and alone on the beach,I would have been downwind of you and you would have not risked a certain collision.
There are exceptions to every rule.....
A surfer locked in a barrel wont be able to swerve to miss someone paddling out will he.??????????????????
You know me and everyone else has helped you out for hrs and hrs with advise so you could progress safely
Drop it and leave with some dignity
Select to expand quotefingerbone said..Greenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
you know what Dan ...You cant leave the beach when someone is riding a wave, 20 mt out ,right in front of you just because you read the f..king hand book.
It was impossible for me to turn off that wave because the shape and wind direction would not allow it. Some one with your abundance of knowledge should have seen that.
If you had waited 2 more seconds ,which you could have done easily as You were safe and alone on the beach,I would have been downwind of you and you would have not risked a certain collision.
There are exceptions to every rule.....
A surfer locked in a barrel wont be able to swerve to miss someone paddling out will he.??????????????????
You know me and everyone else has helped you out for hrs and hrs with advise so you could progress safely
Drop it and leave with some dignity
Or pretending to "surf" on a knee high fat burger and staunching out everybody else at the beach because he's fake surfing along on his surfboard, being a massive c**t all round.
Not sure if this is how it happens in most other places, but seeing way to much of it at my local. The reason people on the beach have right of way is supposed to be because if something goes wrong with your kite or whatever and you're on the land you are much more likely to be catapulted into a solid object than if you were on the water (less solid things out there, and more drag if your kite starts death looping.
If your actually getting barreled on your kite all the way to the beach, yeah ok maybe that's an exception, but I suspect not
Select to expand quoteChris_M said..fingerbone said..Greenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
you know what Dan ...You cant leave the beach when someone is riding a wave, 20 mt out ,right in front of you just because you read the f..king hand book.
It was impossible for me to turn off that wave because the shape and wind direction would not allow it. Some one with your abundance of knowledge should have seen that.
If you had waited 2 more seconds ,which you could have done easily as You were safe and alone on the beach,I would have been downwind of you and you would have not risked a certain collision.
There are exceptions to every rule.....
A surfer locked in a barrel wont be able to swerve to miss someone paddling out will he.??????????????????
You know me and everyone else has helped you out for hrs and hrs with advise so you could progress safely
Drop it and leave with some dignity
Or pretending to "surf" on a knee high fat burger and staunching out everybody else at the beach because he's fake surfing along on his surfboard, being a massive c**t all round.
Not sure if this is how it happens in most other places, but seeing way to much of it at my local. The reason people on the beach have right of way is supposed to be because if something goes wrong with your kite or whatever and you're on the land you are much more likely to be catapulted into a solid object than if you were on the water (less solid things out there, and more drag if your kite starts death looping.
If your actually getting barreled on your kite all the way to the beach, yeah ok maybe that's an exception, but I suspect not
Not saying you are the massive c*** in the story fingerbone, just thinking of a hero I know of over here
Firstly rules are there as a guide - anyone who "demands" right of way is a bloody idiot - there's always times when someone is caught in a lull, used poor judgement and ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time - most of us who have done that know that we've stuffed up, try to apologise and learn from our mistakes.
#1 rule is use common sense!
The main problem areas that I have seen wave riding are:
* when people are launching off the beach and either don't look or don't care and jump right in front of someone coming down the line.
There you go from the RIGHT OF WAY RULES book.....
We all tried in vein to explain this to you
Chris_M .... we are lucky like that at our local...none of them yet
Can we merge this with the 'incident at shearwater esplanade' thread?
I'd like to hear RushInAir's thoughts.
Select to expand quotefingerbone said..
Firstly rules are there as a guide - anyone who "demands" right of way is a bloody idiot - there's always times when someone is caught in a lull, used poor judgement and ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time - most of us who have done that know that we've stuffed up, try to apologise and learn from our mistakes.
#1 rule is use common sense!
The main problem areas that I have seen wave riding are:
* when people are launching off the beach and either don't look or don't care and jump right in front of someone coming down the line.
There you go from the RIGHT OF WAY RULES book.....
We all tried in vein to explain this to you
Chris_M .... we are lucky like that at our local...none of them yet
Can't remember which thread you got that off, but things have changed at my local. Nothing stays the same - what year did I even write that? Heaps of hero wannabe's slashing around on knee high grovellers being extra tough this season
Select to expand quotefingerbone said..Greenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
you know what Dan ...You cant leave the beach when someone is riding a wave, 20 mt out ,right in front of you just because you read the f..king hand book.
It was impossible for me to turn off that wave because the shape and wind direction would not allow it. Some one with your abundance of knowledge should have seen that.
If you had waited 2 more seconds ,which you could have done easily as You were safe and alone on the beach,I would have been downwind of you and you would have not risked a certain collision.
There are exceptions to every rule.....
A surfer locked in a barrel wont be able to swerve to miss someone paddling out will he.??????????????????
You know me and everyone else has helped you out for hrs and hrs with advise so you could progress safely
Drop it and leave with some dignity
Right of way in regards heading out from the beach actually refers to a kiter coming into the beach to stop kiting. The rule is intended as Chris_M said to give the kiter with the greater chance of harm an opportunity to get out of harms way. It is simply how to regulate coming and going from the launch spot and who has right of way on the beach. i.e. If you see someone about to get in the water and their kite is in the air then you give them room to leave the beach before you come in and finish your session.
What you guys are talking about is right of way on the water. If I apply common sense and I was leaving the beach to start my session and there was another rider already on a wave then I would certainly wait until that rider had gone past before heading out. Firstly because if they wiped out I could hurt them and myself and secondly because I would not want to ruin their stoke.
If I understand correctly what happened which is fingerbone was already on a wave and not intending to come into the beach and greenarrows was about to leave the beach then I could understandably get why fingerbone would be pissed off about having a kiter come at him thinking he had right of way. IMO that is just dangerous on behalf of the guy leaving the beach. The guidelines are their first and foremost for safety. If you are coming down the line on a wave you are not concentrating on who is coming out from the beach as you are in the moment on your wave. The last thing you want is to look up and see someone hurtling towards you because they believe they have an entitlement which IMO they actually don't have.
Common sense in this scenario would be to give the rider on the wave time to get past. What if he wiped out just as you left the beach and you ended up in a tangled mess?
I don't want to necessarily get into your boys argument but I would have been pissed of as well if someone did what fingerbone described happened to him. I am not going to pull of a wave that I am riding just because someone has their kite up on the beach. If I am coming into land then that's a different scenario and I would give the guy coming off the beach as much room as he needs to clear the launch area.
Select to expand quotekitebt said..fingerbone said..Greenarrowz said..
Point taken...... and yes im always learning.
I thought the kiter leaving the beach had right of way too here....boy was i wrong.
Varying rules are confusing.
you know what Dan ...You cant leave the beach when someone is riding a wave, 20 mt out ,right in front of you just because you read the f..king hand book.
It was impossible for me to turn off that wave because the shape and wind direction would not allow it. Some one with your abundance of knowledge should have seen that.
If you had waited 2 more seconds ,which you could have done easily as You were safe and alone on the beach,I would have been downwind of you and you would have not risked a certain collision.
There are exceptions to every rule.....
A surfer locked in a barrel wont be able to swerve to miss someone paddling out will he.??????????????????
You know me and everyone else has helped you out for hrs and hrs with advise so you could progress safely
Drop it and leave with some dignity
Right of way in regards heading out from the beach actually refers to a kiter coming into the beach to stop kiting. The rule is intended as Chris_M said to give the kiter with the greater chance of harm an opportunity to get out of harms way. It is simply how to regulate coming and going from the launch spot and who has right of way on the beach. i.e. If you see someone about to get in the water and their kite is in the air then you give them room to leave the beach before you come in and finish your session.
What you guys are talking about is right of way on the water. If I apply common sense and I was leaving the beach to start my session and there was another rider already on a wave then I would certainly wait until that rider had gone past before heading out. Firstly because if they wiped out I could hurt them and myself and secondly because I would not want to ruin their stoke.
If I understand correctly what happened which is fingerbone was already on a wave and not intending to come into the beach and greenarrows was about to leave the beach then I could understandably get why fingerbone would be pissed off about having a kiter come at him thinking he had right of way. IMO that is just dangerous on behalf of the guy leaving the beach. The guidelines are their first and foremost for safety. If you are coming down the line on a wave you are not concentrating on who is coming out from the beach as you are in the moment on your wave. The last thing you want is to look up and see someone hurtling towards you because they believe they have an entitlement which IMO they actually don't have.
Common sense in this scenario would be to give the rider on the wave time to get past. What if he wiped out just as you left the beach and you ended up in a tangled mess?
I don't want to necessarily get into your boys argument but I would have been pissed of as well if someone did what fingerbone described happened to him. I am not going to pull of a wave that I am riding just because someone has their kite up on the beach. If I am coming into land then that's a different scenario and I would give the guy coming off the beach as much room as he needs to clear the launch area.
+1
Sometimes it helps to be specific. If you launch at x...... Walk 300 meters over dunes and grass to the beach. Then walk another 100 meters upwind, unless the wind conditions change (and the beach kiter entering the water starts having a safety issue)...... Wait your turn.
Select to expand quoteSavIb said..
Sometimes it helps to be specific. If you launch at x...... Walk 300 meters over dunes and grass to the beach. Then walk another 100 meters upwind, unless the wind conditions change (and the beach kiter entering the water starts having a safety issue)...... Wait your turn.
Why are you launching at X and doing all that walking? Am I missing something? Seems like an awful lot of energy expended when you could launch on what looks like a pretty good beach and jump straight into the water from where you launch from.
To be fair this isn't the exact location (respect for a local who doesn't like posts like this). However for the learnings of others it has all the similarities.
1) Pump up and launch a long distance from the surf zone.
2) Walking at least 300 meters over grass,sand concrete and timber to the beach.
3) Now on the beach near the waters edge, walking upwind, up the beach.
If you did do the above 3 things........IF....... (or any variation of distance and circumstance), and then couldn't wait the 2 seconds for the rider on the wave to finish (as fingerbone has stated). It's always going to end badly in my opinion.
Again as I suggested before, only a change in wind conditions causing the beach side kiter to have some sort of safety issue with his kite, IMO could ever justify the kilter on the wave giving ground.
Select to expand quoteSavIb said..
To be fair this isn't the exact location (respect for a local who doesn't like posts like this). However for the learnings of others it has all the similarities.
1) Pump up and launch a long distance from the surf zone.
2) Walking at least 300 meters over grass,sand concrete and timber to the beach.
3) Now on the beach near the waters edge, walking upwind, up the beach.
If you did do the above 3 things........IF....... (or any variation of distance and circumstance), and then couldn't wait the 2 seconds for the rider on the wave to finish (as fingerbone has stated). It's always going to end badly in my opinion.
Again as I suggested before, only a change in wind conditions causing the beach side kiter to have some sort of safety issue with his kite, IMO could ever justify the kilter on the wave giving ground.
It sounds like a pretty dangerous way to get to the water with the kite in the air. Am I still missing something? Why not carry your stuff down to the beach, pump up and launch from the beach. It looks much safer and simpler.
Select to expand quoteAbsolutbeginer said..
Sorry, but i am a beginner and the ...
Well there you go. See? You're been cautious now, which is a good thing. We all should still retain that level of awareness, but the reality is unfortunately the more experienced you are, the less caution and awareness you become.
Case in point are cave divers or divers generally. The pros die more often than the beginners do.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..Absolutbeginer said..
Sorry, but i am a beginner and the ...
Well there you go. See? You're been cautious now, which is a good thing. We all should still retain that level of awareness, but the reality is unfortunately the more experienced you are, the less caution and awareness you become.
Case in point are cave divers or divers generally. The pros die more often than the beginners do.
Speak for yourself Lofty. I think some people become more arrogant the more experience they have....you see that on this forum all the time.However, saying the more experienced you are the more careless you become is complete rubbish. Those who still respect the sport and respect others with less experience often become more vigilant it is just less conscious as you get more experience.
Kitebt
The reason for the rather long walk is grass to grass. You pump up dress and lock gear in car , launch from a great grass area ( if joe public isnt there ) then walk up a sand track over to the beach.Very simular to above picture.
It actually is great when you do it and but obviously more dangerous than conventional beach set up and pack up.
I have done it but am over cautious the majority of the time and usually just go for the beach thing.
Select to expand quotekitebt said..SavIb said..
To be fair this isn't the exact location (respect for a local who doesn't like posts like this). However for the learnings of others it has all the similarities.
1) Pump up and launch a long distance from the surf zone.
2) Walking at least 300 meters over grass,sand concrete and timber to the beach.
3) Now on the beach near the waters edge, walking upwind, up the beach.
If you did do the above 3 things........IF....... (or any variation of distance and circumstance), and then couldn't wait the 2 seconds for the rider on the wave to finish (as fingerbone has stated). It's always going to end badly in my opinion.
Again as I suggested before, only a change in wind conditions causing the beach side kiter to have some sort of safety issue with his kite, IMO could ever justify the kilter on the wave giving ground.
It sounds like a pretty dangerous way to get to the water with the kite in the air. Am I still missing something? Why not carry your stuff down to the beach, pump up and launch from the beach. It looks much safer and simpler.
Dunno I think it's called "entitlement schema" or that's what I've shelved the individual with.
Select to expand quotekitebt said..SavIb said..
Sometimes it helps to be specific. If you launch at x...... Walk 300 meters over dunes and grass to the beach. Then walk another 100 meters upwind, unless the wind conditions change (and the beach kiter entering the water starts having a safety issue)...... Wait your turn.
Why are you launching at X and doing all that walking? Am I missing something? Seems like an awful lot of energy expended when you could launch on what looks like a pretty good beach and jump straight into the water from where you launch from.
Agreed, why are you launching so close to those houses? 
I was told recently that place has become overrun with no idea numpty Fwits. ...
This thread just proves it
