In light of ActionSportsWA's recent post I would be interested to find out how many New Kiters where taught how to self rescue and actually performed one under the instructors supervision ( not just told how to do it should you actually need to )
No need to name schools its not a witch hunt...... Just an attempt to find out how many are teaching this important safety aspect. I know plenty are not as I have witnessed many new kiters just bobbing around waiting for someone to help them when things go awry.
I did my lessons with 2 different blokes (same school) and had i had the second guy for the first 6 hours i'm sure i would have progressed faster and learnt more....Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I've since found Christians videos on youtube the best tutorials and have watched them often
First bloke never even said anything about self rescue. He missed simple stuff like locking the struts after inflation.
But mind you, in between getting ****ty at me crashing the kite and struggling with a language barrier he did reinforce the need to hit the QR the second something goes pear shaped and upwind body dragging. They were the only things i was really able to take away from his lessons but it's potentially saved me from injury a couple of times and loosing my board.
I had lessons from kitesurf warehouse at Melville, and kitewest in Gero in jan 2012 and both schools taught me how to self rescue. With me in the water, me setting the kite up as a sail etc. Have used it many times since lessons, though not very often in the last year I have to say. It's always more complex in real life, with obstacles, different sorts of tangles, decisions on keeping or dumping board etc.
yep was taught and went thru practice of self rescue by Nick at SOS ... excellent instructor !! with good looks to boot 
I never got lessons so I had to rescue myself heaps of times.... So one circumstance kinda took care of the other I guess....
Select to expand quote... he did reinforce the need to hit the QR the second something goes pear shaped and upwind body dragging. ....
That's interesting. In 14 years of kiteboarding I have hit the quick release once and the hook knife once. Both times I had plenty of time to assess the situation and decide on the best course of action at the time. In most cases hitting the quick release is the worst thing you can do because you instantly sacrifice all control over the situation. It turns a minor oops into a potential disaster.
This is my concern with rote learning. Self rescue is a good thing to know. But there are numerous forms of self rescue and each one is applicable in different circumstances. It's easy enough to be aware of the various techniques by watching a video. They're all really easy to do. Most you can try on a light wind day by yourself if you must. Would you want to pay an instructor while you try them all out? Would you be able to devise something else in the water because something you have learned to use has broken or is lost?
It's far better to develop a sense of caution to avoid unnecessarily hazardous situations, and a sense of self-reliance to sort things out when they go wrong.
On the weekend my harness spreader broke during a downwinder. I was able to improvise something to get launched then ride un-hooked to the destination, occasionally operating the chicken loop by hand. It was a bit worrying at the time but it ended up kind of fun and very satisfying.
You might say that I should know how to do stuff because I have been kiting for 14 years. But the fact is I started in the ocean as a little kid, long before that. You always encounter situations that will be life threatening if you screw up. You always have to deal with those situations and stay alive.
An example of that is people getting caught in rips and drowning. There's all sorts of advice about swimming across the current etc. The advice is all BS. Rips have out, in and cross currents. If you swim across a rip there's a 50:50 chance you will be swimming into a cross current. The only thing you have to do in a rip is stay afloat and stay alive. You can do that indefinitely and when you're alive you can make observations and implement plans. Everything after that is just incidental details.
My grand sum of lessons consisted of a 1 hour lesson on how to self rescue and water start.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..... he did reinforce the need to hit the QR the second something goes pear shaped and upwind body dragging. ....
That's interesting. In 14 years of kiteboarding I have hit the quick release once and the hook knife once. Both times I had plenty of time to assess the situation and decide on the best course of action at the time. In most cases hitting the quick release is the worst thing you can do because you instantly sacrifice all control over the situation. It turns a minor oops into a potential disaster.
This is my concern with rote learning. Self rescue is a good thing to know. But there are numerous forms of self rescue and each one is applicable in different circumstances. It's easy enough to be aware of the various techniques by watching a video. They're all really easy to do. Most you can try on a light wind day by yourself if you must. Would you want to pay an instructor while you try them all out? Would you be able to devise something else in the water because something you have learned to use has broken or is lost?
It's far better to develop a sense of caution to avoid unnecessarily hazardous situations, and a sense of self-reliance to sort things out when they go wrong.
On the weekend my harness spreader broke during a downwinder. I was able to improvise something to get launched then ride un-hooked to the destination, occasionally operating the chicken loop by hand. It was a bit worrying at the time but it ended up kind of fun and very satisfying.
You might say that I should know how to do stuff because I have been kiting for 14 years. But the fact is I started in the ocean as a little kid, long before that. You always encounter situations that will be life threatening if you screw up. You always have to deal with those situations and stay alive.
An example of that is people getting caught in rips and drowning. There's all sorts of advice about swimming across the current etc. The advice is all BS. Rips have out, in and cross currents. If you swim across a rip there's a 50:50 chance you will be swimming into a cross current. The only thing you have to do in a rip is stay afloat and stay alive. You can do that indefinitely and when you're alive you can make observations and implement plans. Everything after that is just incidental details.
I agree Gorgo...BUT in the past the people who got into Kiting were generally water people already ( Surfers, Sailors, Windsurfers etc.... ) as such they already had some ocean sense ie: ability to understand and read conditions, ability to make decisions when things go awry and have an understanding of the effect their input will have in a situation.
These days many people are getting into kiting because it looks awesome, many new kiters have not spent much time in the water and think because they can swim they will be fine....... yet they have No understanding whatsoever of rips or currents ( where they might form or where they are present nor what effect they may have on them or their equipment ) No understanding of weather patterns or wind strengths or what to do when things go wrong.
The ability to jury rig something to get yourself out of trouble comes from having a clear mind in a difficult situation you can only really have this if you are relaxed and understand the situation you are in....... If you are taught something about self rescue you will have more confidence in these situations. Hopefully leading to a better outcome............ although the bottom of the gene pool is quite deep and some will still be totally clueless
Lessons with Caroline from elemental. Did theory on land and 2 self rescues on the water.
At the end of the first and second lesson an instructor should (must) be doing self rescue....
It is time consuming and involves a wet kite etc, good schools usually have designated kites so the next lesson can progress. I used to use a 5m the first time and then second time with the kite that they are on, only in deep water. No one can learn a self rescue properly when standing.
THe biggest issue I see is guys that dont be really conservative once they get more that 200m out the back. Most guys in Perth have a natural stance which favours them greatly riding out........ Not so much riding in. Murphys law says the trick that you do right out the back is most likely to go pear shaped. learning to ride on switch is part of kitesurfing.
Yes kite west.
Funny how a lot of kiters have issues with instructors an a language barrier, I enquired around a lot about the kite instructor course an there's either none being run or no intention of running it. Considering the amount of people who want to kite this astounds me.
*if anyone knows of an upcoming course let me know 
Had to do the pack down twice floating offshore at Woodies..........Choicy was tops, followed me in the boat all the way.
Select to expand quoteharry potter said..
In light of ActionSportsWA's recent post I would be interested to find out how many New Kiters where taught how to self rescue and actually performed one under the instructors supervision ( not just told how to do it should you actually need to )
No need to name schools its not a witch hunt...... Just an attempt to find out how many are teaching this important safety aspect. I know plenty are not as I have witnessed many new kiters just bobbing around waiting for someone to help them when things go awry.
are you seriously suggesting i get my students to actually do all the half hitching fisherman poleing deep water self rescue themselves? ive done a fair few of them and even i take a good 20 minutes sometimes and if its windy its bloody chaos out there. with you and your student cutting a 25m line down the waterfront usually closeish to the shore where beginners cant upwind ride properly yet to get behind you.
i dont know man. i think its a pain in the butt enough just doing it and explaining it all to them. i could see SO MANY students accidently half hitching there fingers etc and the kite turning in the water and chopping them off for them. then i definitely would loose my teaching licence. when i first learnt to kitesurf several years ago i did 6 days of group lessons and i still didn't even have that **** shown to me net alone had to have me do it myself.
i dont really hate the whole procedure itself. i just think its to much of a big ask to ask students to do this. ive had students who could not even reset the quick release etc due to strength issues. some students really puzzle me sometimes. i love how everyone seemed to just wake up one day and decide to become a kitesurfer i skated and cableskid and flew stunt kites for like a decade before i had the balls to actually go learn to kitesurf. and even then i was scared ****less and took ages to become independent. i honestly believe most people can get to the point of riding upwind maybe a transition. but why half of them decide to do this i dont know. i ask the normalish people why because you can just tell by looking at them they have at least been for a swim in the last year. the others tho, i cant even ask them incase it comes of as being rude or condescending but i really wouldn't mind knowing what it is. because it took me a hell of an effort to get there. and they always seem to think its going to happen overnight.
Hi Arloj,
I used to train instructors, and indeed taught more than 200 in my time. I always emphasized the importance of safety and to take personal responsibility for the quality of tuition. I became disillusioned after pouring my heart and soul into every course hoping to create great instructors. It was demoralizing to see most of them become the antithesis of what I was hoping to achieve. Many still don't "get it" 
The problem with IKO is their inability to quality check their instructors and schools once they pass the course. BKSA is no better and from what I have seen are worse than IKO, total hipocryts. KAL is working on an Australian standard. I wish them more success than IKO and BKSA. They have a great opportunity to create an excellent system. To the best of my knowledge, the only one with any real cred is the French system.
I taught more than 100 Aussie instructors, and most dropped out of teaching shortly after the course. It's almost impossible to get Aussie instructors, they just don't want to do the job even at the rate of pay we offer. It's even harder to get a good school manager. I'm proud of what Christian has done for the teaching in my school, it follows on the same ideals on safety and quality in creating independent students that I started back in the day.
Any idiot can teach someone to kitesurf in about 2-3 hours tops and you don't even need to be trained, but not if you are teaching how to be safe and independent, this takes hours more, but is totally worthwhile when we NEVER have to rescue our old students. Most modern day instructors think that the mark of a good instructor, is how fast you can get someone on the board, and indeed I've heard instructors boasting that they can get a student up in a single lesson. This to me screams reckless and inexperienced instructor who doesn't care about the welfare of the student. A student shouldn't get anywhere near a board in their first lesson, and not all get to one in their second lesson.
The student says he wants to learn to kitesurf, this isn't actually the case. 99% of them want to learn how to avoid an accident, how to get themselves out of trouble and how to avoid incidences involving others and the public. In short they want to know what to do to keep themselves safe. Learning to ride is actually secondary. You can safely self learn once you have been shown control and effective use of safety and self rescue. The ability to progress quickly comes from the confidence of them knowing they can get themselves out of any situation without relying on outside help.
Kozzie, you have the ability to create a difference in the students you teach. No one will thank you if you get them up and riding but they plaster themselves against a hazard or lose their gear offshore because they didn't know what to do in an emergency.
From what I see going on on most beaches, there is plenty of room for improvement....
DM
Now bring on the red thumbs and the smart arse comments. The average teaching standard in this country is a f%#king joke!
Hey Kozzie,
Damn straight! If you aren't burning at least 20-30 minutes with a student doing a deep water self rescue in real conditions, you are setting them up for a serious situation. It's when the scenario is at it's most gnarly that the student should be learning it, not in shallow water where if it gets a bit hard they can put their feet down on the bottom.
The speed of progression after a student has been through a full self rescue in the worst conditions is amazing. They have faced the worst and come out the other side on their own. They know they can do it and feel OK to push a little harder when learning. Students who have not done this, tend to be nervous and worried about dropping their kite and not being able to relaunch or self rescue, this retards their learning and they take much much longer to learn to ride.
You do not have to do a full "wind the lines" in my opinion, but you do need to know how to deflate and swim in, or at least make a sail and sail back in. Winding the lines is dangerous when the kite is not controlled. Skip that bit and just get back to the beach as quickly as possible. The bar and lines will still be there at the end of it, I assure you. Winding the lines up is only necessary if coming in through the surf, or being picked up by a boat with someone who doesn't know the sport.
Be happy and be a better instructor 
DM
No never taught it,
Read about it and mentally rehearsed it. Watched some videos.
I was taught the self rescue. In fact, in the three lessons I had, I only just got through the water start as the instructor explained to me "you can spend plenty of time practicing that yourself, my job is to ensure you know what to do when it goes wrong." This was also in the days that you learnt on one of those ridiculous foam boards that you can barely get an edge on. (2006)
First lesson: Wind theory, conditions suitable to ride in, flying a Trainer kite, setting up a small LEI, launch and land drills.
Second lesson: Some revision, body dragging, self rescue on land and in the water (shallow water, but not allowed to touch the bottom), intro to water start
Third lesson: Getting the water start right.
I've had to do it once, in Mauritius - I dropped the kite, it rolled a couple of times and I just couldn't get it up off the deck. Best option was to self rescue (or pay the dude in a boat $50 for a rescue) I chose the former of the two options.
I think the main problem is that the kite schools want to get you up and riding for longer, so you feel like you have accomplished something, get bitten by the bug, and buy the gear. If you just get through to the water start (which many argue is the hardest part) you may lose interest.
I was given a demo but never performed one. Disappointing as this was that it was taught as check in the box rather than an essential skill and safety aspect of the sport. The instructor told me we will rush through it so we can get on with lesson.
Select to expand quotelostinlondon said..
....
I think the main problem is that the kite schools want to get you up and riding ...
I would have thought that was what most people want. "I want to go kiteboarding! Teach me to kiteboard! Launching? Landing? Self rescue? Site assessment? Safety? I want to go kiteboarding! Teach me to kiteboard!"
(Go Kite) We did self rescue here in Melbourne on I think the second water lesson? The first being kite flying body drag type stuff..
Yes, it does take up time but.. I want to know that stuff..! Doesn't everybody?
Instructor did a Self Launch then I had to replicate it - To be honest I generally got the idea of it but while learning you are doing so many new things it is hard to keep hold of all the new info.. So I don't think I could do the weird knots properly - but I would get by..
I'm planning on doing another lesson to learn a few new things and refresh. (Now I'm upwind etc and generally kite a few times a week)
Self Launch
Self rescue
Boost/ spins etc..
Select to expand quoteActionSportsWA said..
Hi Arloj,
I used to train instructors, and indeed taught more than 200 in my time. I always emphasized the importance of safety and to take personal responsibility for the quality of tuition. I became disillusioned after pouring my heart and soul into every course hoping to create great instructors. It was demoralizing to see most of them become the antithesis of what I was hoping to achieve. Many still don't "get it"
The problem with IKO is their inability to quality check their instructors and schools once they pass the course. BKSA is no better and from what I have seen are worse than IKO, total hipocryts. KAL is working on an Australian standard. I wish them more success than IKO and BKSA. They have a great opportunity to create an excellent system. To the best of my knowledge, the only one with any real cred is the French system.
I taught more than 100 Aussie instructors, and most dropped out of teaching shortly after the course. It's almost impossible to get Aussie instructors, they just don't want to do the job even at the rate of pay we offer. It's even harder to get a good school manager. I'm proud of what Christian has done for the teaching in my school, it follows on the same ideals on safety and quality in creating independent students that I started back in the day.
Any idiot can teach someone to kitesurf in about 2-3 hours tops and you don't even need to be trained, but not if you are teaching how to be safe and independent, this takes hours more, but is totally worthwhile when we NEVER have to rescue our old students. Most modern day instructors think that the mark of a good instructor, is how fast you can get someone on the board, and indeed I've heard instructors boasting that they can get a student up in a single lesson. This to me screams reckless and inexperienced instructor who doesn't care about the welfare of the student. A student shouldn't get anywhere near a board in their first lesson, and not all get to one in their second lesson.
The student says he wants to learn to kitesurf, this isn't actually the case. 99% of them want to learn how to avoid an accident, how to get themselves out of trouble and how to avoid incidences involving others and the public. In short they want to know what to do to keep themselves safe. Learning to ride is actually secondary. You can safely self learn once you have been shown control and effective use of safety and self rescue. The ability to progress quickly comes from the confidence of them knowing they can get themselves out of any situation without relying on outside help.
Kozzie, you have the ability to create a difference in the students you teach. No one will thank you if you get them up and riding but they plaster themselves against a hazard or lose their gear offshore because they didn't know what to do in an emergency.
From what I see going on on most beaches, there is plenty of room for improvement....
DM
Now bring on the red thumbs and the smart arse comments. The average teaching standard in this country is a f%#king joke!
Slow clap......very well said!
Another vote for AKS teaching here.
Few years ago, got run down on self rescue on the beach (winding up the lines and using the kite as a sail), then made to practice it in the water.
At one point during the body dragging lessons I accidentally released the safety, put it all back together and kept dragging, told the instructor when I got out and he said he was going to get me to do that later anyway, and didn't have to now :)
No deep water pack down during the lessons, but I knew how it was done anyway and got practice at it sometime later during another season as my leading edge deflated after stacking a jump.
DM is right, lessons should be used to learn the safety aspects of the sport, how to keep and get yourself out of trouble so you can feel confident in continuing to learn on your own.
Darren,
That's all good an said but you've got a willing, local wanting to undertake the kite instructor course right now and from what I gather there's no ability for me to pursue it?
Select to expand quotearloj said..
Darren,
That's all good an said but you've got a willing, local wanting to undertake the kite instructor course right now and from what I gather there's no ability for me to pursue it?
Hey mate,
There is no one teaching instructors in Perth. If you contact Chris from Kite Republic, he is the IKO Examiner. He runs courses. The content of IKO is very good, but only if it is applied.
DM
Does the IKO system still have the records keeping and "Skills card" system?
There was a list of things you had to complete to be assessed as competent (all the self rescue was part of it)- bear in mind, "Intermediate" was successfully water starting and riding for 10 metres, not going up wind or anything.
Does anyone report in IKO instructors and schools not teaching to the course?
Select to expand quotelostinlondon said..
Does the IKO system still have the records keeping and "Skills card" system?
There was a list of things you had to complete to be assessed as competent (all the self rescue was part of it)- bear in mind, "Intermediate" was successfully water starting and riding for 10 metres, not going up wind or anything.
Does anyone report in IKO instructors and schools not teaching to the course?
Yes there is still the IKO card certification system, but the definition of ''competence'' is up to each instructor's interpretation. As someone mentioned before some instructors are pretty good at ticking boxes and going over the safety stuff pretty quickly or not at all.
We had a few students come up to our school with IKO cards ''certifying'' their level of competence up to water starts or riding and they simply never ever did a self-rescue, never had to body drag upwind to retrieve a board, never relaunched a kite in deep, etc.
Without continuous on-site training and a thorough quality check system of schools, those IKO cards are worthless and are generally a poor indicator of the student's actual level of independence and safety, unless of course they had proper professional instruction...which is rare
As for reporting IKO instructors who do not teach the course...then again, what is exactly ''teaching the course'' many instructors and some school owners and managers still think that talking about self-rescue or giving a demo meets the course standard... The IKO has no control on the quality of lessons that is given once the instructor leaves the course. I'm pretty sure any such complaint about teaching standards would be ignored by the IKO, as long as the school pays them money each year, the wheel keeps turning and everyone is happy :)
