Hi, I'm new to the sport. I had my first lesson a while ago and am slowly getting hold of the gear. I got my kite (Blade), will get a board (most likely a Cardboard board) and now need to decide on a harness (I have my eye on the Liquid Force Boardshort Harness).
Now I have my concerns with respect to waist harnesses. In essence, these fit on similar to a ladies corset, which wraps around the lumbar spine. I am worried about causing injury to the lumbar portion of my spine. I guess you could get some serious whip-lash out there if the kite pulls you hard all of a sudden. But why are these the most popular type? As a rockclimber, I wear a seat harness (as do practically all climbers) which wraps around the pelvic region.
I just don't understand why most kite surfers fancy the corset style. The pelvis is a stronger structure as compared to the lumbar spine i.e. less injury prone.
Does anyone have any recommendations?
Many thanks.
V
as a newbie, with your kite often at twelve, a waist harness may be uncomfortable for a few sessions as it pulls up on your lower ribs. as soon as you're riding back and forth this ceases to be an issue. from then on, try both and go with what you like.
from a sports physiology perspective it's worth considering that a seat harness can potentially exert more leverage on your lumbar spine precisely because it is at a distance (albeit a small one) from it. whilst a waist harness acts more directly on the lumbar spine it will not directly generate much in the way of bending or twisting moments (as in the tech term for leverage).
indirectly a waist harness can involve load on your lower torso (including but not only your spine) as you have to bring your pelvis, legs and board along with you when the waist harness pulls you wherever you're going. in the case of boosting this can involve some ab strength to keep your lower back from over-extending, but as your technique improves this diminishes.
a waist harness gives much more mobility at the hip joints (between each femur and the pelvis) as well as allowing more twist for riding toeside.
i ride a waist harness and i also know a few kick-ass kiters who swear by seat harnesses. your instructor should have one of each for you to try. as your abilities and style develop you'll be able to make a more informed choice.
dojo
I would strongly suggest a seat harness for safety and comfort and the chicks dig em! Also be sure to get a flotation vest, retractable leg rope, wrap around sunnies, booties, webbed gloves, camel pack, Gath helmet with visor, 200cm twin tip, 5 inch fins and a 20 meter Peter Lynn kite for those light wind days!
Good luck and gusty winds!
Seat harnesses are very good for people with bad backs, but unless you have a particular problem to begin with then there's no real reason to worry.
Seat vs Waist is an old debate. Generally seat harnesses are easier when you're starting as they prevent the spreader bar from riding up and pressing against your ribs, but a lot of people swear by waist harnesses once you're past the "riding along" stage. For me a waist harness makes it easier to ride toeside and help me land the right way up as the "pivot" point is further above my center of gravity. They're also easier to unhook if I ever bother trying that again.
Plus waist harness look cooler
Each to their own though, plenty of good riders on both style of harness.
i used to be fairly skinny when i started kiting, so i couldn't get used to the waist harness as it was constantly riding up my chest all the time squashing my chest too much and making it hard to breathe... so i ended up using seat harness... however i've gained 10 kg since that time, and looking forward to trying waist harness again this season. I found seat harness very comfortable and probably easier in the begining. When it comes to tricks, i believe waist harness gives you more freedom... although you can do all the basic manouvers and many tricks using waist harness too...
also, seat harness looks more gay... (doh)
hmmmmmmm..........I am yet to see... a so called "good" or "kickass" rider in a seat harness
Just a personal observation
If your under 35 you can probably get away with learning with a waist. Seat would still be better for half the 1st season though (IMHO).
If your over 35 don't listen to the pumped up, red bull guzzling, little pain junkies here and get a seat harness.
My 2c worth based on my experience switching betweeen both types is that a seat harness is great for learning, and for when you are trying to hold an edge with an overpowered kite. A waist harness is better once you are proficient at riding and start moving round and attempting tricks.
First when learning I found it much easier with a seat harness because like mentioned above when learning the kite is at 12 o'clock a lot and you don't get the bar riding up into your ribs as much (similarly when learning to jump the bar was less likely to ride up if I was just dangling underneath it). I also found that with the lower bar position/pivot point/center of gravity I was less prone to getting pulled over the front of the board when I mucked up. Taking that big gulp of air when you come up from being slammed is also a much nicer when you don't have anything compressing your waist/diaphragm. I have also found that I can hold down my kite in much stronger winds with the seat harness without being pulled off my edge as much as I do on the waist when overpowered.
Once I got better though and started trying different things like riding toeside, the waist harness feels better when I'm out there just because it allows you more motion. Because your waist can twist more below the harness I also found that you can track your board higher more easily when heading upwind. Balance and board control skills improve more when using the waist harness I think too.
As for why there are more waist harnesses than seat types I have a theory on that based mainly around the "cool" factor and the fact that wearing a large padded nappy over your boardies is deemed "uncool" by the masses. There is also the comfort theory as where I learnt you always needed a wetsuit which provided a certain level of padding where the leg straps of the seat harness go. Moving to QLD and kiting in boardies i can say the seat lost ground to the waist harness in the comfort factor.
***** Pro Limit seat harness ******
its one ofthe very best fitting & comfortable types out..
Get one - youll love it
Cheers
i use both,
seat for high winds, (boosting, speed kiting) 25 knots +
waist for more manageble winds, (unhooked freestlye, wave riding)
just depends on where you want to take kitesurfing. and potter i know some very good riders that use seat harnesses, mabey they dont look kool enough for most guys but they serve their purpose. good wakestyle riders use waist harnesses because it free's up your legs more and some have sliding leash attatchments for handle passes.
cheers
james
it seems to me that it depends on your body shape as well quite a lot. Someone explained it to me as being like a telegraph pole with a rope attached to it... if it is attached to the top it will pull it over quite easily, but with it attached to the bottom it has the advantage of a lower centre of gravity anchorage point which would take enormous force to pull it over.
in my experience as a (shortish) girl kiter, i learnt with a waist and found it OK, but that it rode up persistently and my balance was sh!t. I've recently gone over to a seat (Dakine Fusion) and not only does it stay low, i can adjust the depower easily and the bar's throw is not longer than my arms. I feel anchored in and more stable.
Just my 2 cents
Go with what's comfortable,
Visit all the shops you can and try all the harness's they stock
It's horses for courses, both types have benifits and drawbacks.
I started with a Dakine Fusion seat harness - I found it really hard to raise my knees to my chest (as in get the board on my feet for water starts) because the waist belt stopped me bending at the hips. I changed to a waist harness (Flying Objects Flight Control - super comfy) and everything became so much easier. I had more freedom of movement in my hips and getting started was a lot easier. I found I could control the board a lot better and go upwind easier, my rate of progression took a massive leap.
Voirin, I wouldn't worry about the whip lash aspect - the waist harnesses spread the load over your back - Kites have a lot of lift, and you do direct a lot of power through your harness, but its not like falling to the end of a rock climbing rope!
Also, think this way - when you are rockclimbing, you don't tend to rely on your harness for extended periods in that it is part of your safety system when you fall or you rap down a face with it.
In Kitesurfing the harness is your connection to the kite - it is essentially always under load - Its not a safety element of your equipment.
Chances are you won't get it right with your first choice of harness, as it takes some experience to establish what you actually want from your harness. So get something that gives you confidence - if you are genuinely worried about the whiplash thing get a seat - after a while you might find it doesn't suit your needs and you need to change - comfort should be top priority - you have to spend a lot of hours in your harness! Everyone I think has to endure some degree of salt chafe and discomfort especially when you start and are spending a lot of time walking on the beach back upwind - but the aim should be to minimise this as much as you can.
WOW thank you all SO VERY MUCH for all the informative posts. So many replies and points of opinion - which I like! So the general consensus seems to be that seat is good for a beginner due to inexperience, and waist is good once things have settled in.
Yes - I think I understand peoples rational when it comes to the waist harness distributing support across a fair length of back that it doesn't cause pain. Also, a seat harness could actually cause greater load on the spine as opposed to a waist harness (due to Force X Distance relationship) as pointed out by some posts. That seems very clear.
I'll do what you all suggest, and that is to go to the shops and try on the various harnesses. Now to research some good brands :)
Thanks again everyone!
Cheers,
V
waist harnesses crushes my chest when jumping,
if loosened, the hook on the seat harness can be adjusted so that it sits where a waist hook would. If you want to go out for hours, keep away from the waist harness.
Don't copy what the pro riders wear, half of them fly slingshot, doesn't mean ****
What about boardshort harnesses?????!?!?
I got myself a LF boardshort harness and even though I am yet to use it but I hear nothing but good things!
Tried both, hate seat harnesses, but the waist harness rides up on me because of my build. Ended up using the LF boardshorts and love them. The hook is higher than the dakine nitrous shorts so its gives a good compromise between the comfort of a seat and the hook height of a waist.
If you have problems with a waist harness riding up then try wearing it a little looser.
If it's too tight and it gets pulled up it wedges over your ribs and it won't come back down again. You can't breathe with it over your ribs and it is hard to push down.
If it is a *little* looser then it slides up over your ribs then straight back down again. (and no it doesn't slide up and down in annoying way. It's still snug, just not super tight.)
I do mine up as tight as with will go when it is dry. It loosens up a fair bit when it is wet and that is about right. This applies to us pencil-neck geeks. You fatty boombah beer barrel-shaped guys and others will have to come up with your own method.