Hi guys,
I'm still a beginner but progressing nicely. Last weekend when I was out, I had to self-rescue but I am not sure what happened.
I was just trying to water start after I had body dragged out but all of a sudden a small gust came and my loop unhooked and the kite fell out of the sky right into the ocean with me still being connected by the one line. It fell right into the middle of the window on the leading edge in the water and instantly started dragging me dangerously with me going under water. I instantly looked around for my 2nd safety and ejected from the kite completely.
I had to swim in, recovered the kite and the board and went out again.
It wasn't really scary thanks to me having practiced with the safety before but it did make me wonder why this happened. Someone previously pointed out to me that my donkey dick is pretty soft (esp. when wet).
I'm flying a 2013 BWS Noise but feel like the bar and lines are a bit older (bought it used). I also find it impossible to use the depower on those lines, I don't seem to have enough strength to pull it in if I need to.
Any thoughts?
Where you at the botom of the wind range? If you unhook the kite and it's not tuned probably you can choke the kite and it will fall out of the sky. Happens all the time to me when throwing freestyle in light winds. This is what it sounds like to me, I may be wrong tho!!
Select to expand quotekemp90 said..
Where you at the botom of the wind range? If you unhook the kite and it's not tuned probably you can choke the kite and it will fall out of the sky. Happens all the time to me when throwing freestyle in light winds. This is what it sounds like to me, I may be wrong tho!!
Wasn't really at the bottom but at the lower end lets say: 16-17 knots but gusting.
quick thought but is you donkey in the right way?
Also might help to clarify what you were doing at the time it unhooked, a gust isnt going to take your loop off your harness even if your donkey isnt engaged, was your kite on the water or did you crash or turn funny? the upward lift of a kite should keep it hooked to you all the time.
Might also help to upload a pic of your harness and your chicken loop/ donkey
When I was learning in the shallows the chicken loop unhooked several times during small stacks, I never really knew why but I suspect the loop twisted itself off while I was doing the cart wheel trick 
but no worries as I just walked over and reattached it.
Anyhow it hadn’t happened for ages until last weekend… it unhooked after I lost line tension during a very very minor stack a few 100 meters off shore so I had to self rescue back to land. I’ve decided to rig up suicide now.
If you’re wondering why I didn’t just swim over and reattach the chicken loop weeellll - once upon a time I did that in the shallows and didn’t realise the lines had crossed so when I reconnected, the kite want into a death loop - disconnected and all was ok but didn’t want to risk that happening off shore.
Kajo,
It's pretty clear you have to replace your chicken loop finger if you want to get rid of this random unhooking issue. It's either that or you simply don't put it in correctly.
As windreams mentioned, when under load, its only from a twisting motion that get the chicken loop can come undone. Otherwise it's because the lines got slack for a moment, all this combined with a finger that is too short and/or too soft and/or not put in properly.
The other concern is your safety system which is either not functioning correctly or you are connected in suicide mode, both of which could explain why your kite wouldn't flag out. Some safety systems are connected to both front lines which in some cases don't depower the kite especially if the kite is straight downwind of you on the leading edge. The way to get the kite to flag out in that scenario (assuming you are NOT connected in suicide mode) is to swim quickly towards the kite to get slack in the front lines which will allow the kite to roll over and flag out safely. You can also try pulling hard on the safety line and releasing it quickly to achieve the same result.
EDIT: It seems the BWS bar uses a single front line flagging system, so unless your bar has been modified or you are connected in suicide mode, the kite should flag out instantly (regardless of the kite's position) when you release the safety system or become unhooked by accident. The other explanation would be that your flagging line doesn't glide through and is getting jammed somewhere, if that's the case it's a big concern and you should get someone competent to check it out.
When you get more advanced you'll be able to grab your chicken loop by climbing the safety line hand over hand, feed the safety line slowly back in, reset the chicken loop (if it's been released) and relaunch (if the lines aren't tangled as windreams mentioned).
But in the meantime it's best to practice self-rescue without releasing the whole kite.
I wouldn't recommend connecting your leash in suicide mode for now, especially if you're not into unhooked tricks.
Christian
Cbulota's right recommending not to go suicide "yet" so in the meantime maybe this will help.
www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing/kites+ozone
Thanks so much for the replies windreams and cbulota.
Just to clarify I am using the undertow bar from BWS. Exactly this one in the video here: http://shop.bwsurf.com/products/undertow-bar
From memory, I did try to pull the centre line quickly and releasing it so that the kite would fall on it's back. I think it was about to happen but then the breaking ocean waves sort of prevented it from happening. By then I was back in waist deep water and out of trouble anyway with the kite washed up at the beach.
btw. what exactly means connecting in suicide mode? Is that connecting the safety leash to the chickenloop instead of the small ring? If so I defo wasn't connected in suicide mode (just had the leash connected to the small ring which is connected to the flagging line). So I am not sure why the kite didn't flag immediately...
I might by a stronger donk dick just in case and get it installed in the shop if they do that.
Thank you Christian, I will.
The whole thing showed me how vital it is to practice with the safety and really understanding what is happening (not easy to figure out for a beginner I gotta say - even with training).
Any ideas regarding the depower? Are they generally hard to pull even with the kite at 12 o'clock? I yanked like crazy but it didn't budge.
You mean the trim strap? Shouldn't be that hard to pull especially if it's an above the bar trim. Could be hard to pull due to corrosion and general lack of maintenance. Inspect your bar
Select to expand quotecbulota said..
You mean the trim strap? Shouldn't be that hard to pull especially if it's an above the bar trim. Could be hard to pull due to corrosion and general lack of maintenance. Inspect your bar
Ok I will take a close look at the bar and perhaps bring it to a shop for an inspection.
Thank you.
Select to expand quoteKajo said..cbulota said..
You mean the trim strap? Shouldn't be that hard to pull especially if it's an above the bar trim. Could be hard to pull due to corrosion and general lack of maintenance. Inspect your bar
Ok I will take a close look at the bar and perhaps bring it to a shop for an inspection.
Thank you.
Just copied this from another one of your posts Christian, coz it's so true:
Safety systems are only as safe as the kiter's ability to activate them quickly and recover the kite safely, which requires training and practice.
Kajo I’ll leave the tech stuff to cbulota but I only replied to another post today about why I wash some of my gear after use.
The main reason I will always wash my kite bar is to confirm all of the parts move and do what they are supposed to do. Why? You know that story I touched on before about the death loop, well there’s more to it.
When the kite started the death loop I went for the quick release and it was jammed solid (with sand), I kept trying as I ran out of water and was now on the sand heading for the trees. The only thing in my favour was the wind died down for a few seconds, that gave me time to unhook. Other than some skin missing from the 20 meter sand drag all was ok but that’s why I am particular with my bar safety system… it’s good you are trying to work out what went wrong with yours.
You guys bring up important concerns with your stories that can make a big difference for everyone's safety when trouble happens.
Last weekend while I was teaching, I saw no less than 3 different death loop scenarios on the beach in winds well above 20 knots. The fact is, despite getting dragged for many seconds over other kiters gear, no safety was deployed in any of those scenarios...
Other kiters always try to help by grabbing the kite if and when it settles down for a bit, which is great but potentially dangerous for the person(s) trying to help. It's great to have good intentions like these, but unfortunately doesn't teach the person in trouble the right thing to do and this is likely to happen over and over again. Unfortunately those are the kiters that are probably not reading these forums.
When you see anyone get dragged with an out of control kite always urge them to release the safety, even if you think you can safely pick the kite up. It's by educating others around us that we can slowly make a difference and eventually save injuries and lives.
I said it before and I'll say it again, the main cause of injuries and deaths in our sport come from poor training and/or malfunctioning/outdated safety systems and/or slow/improper safety reflexes.
Too many kiters of various skill level and experience have never even deployed their safety systems ONCE while the kite was flying, while the majority of those have taken ''professional lessons" in a ''safe'' school....
Select to expand quotewindreams said..
Kajo I’ll leave the tech stuff to cbulota but I only replied to another post today about why I wash some of my gear after use.
The main reason I will always wash my kite bar is to confirm all of the parts move and do what they are supposed to do. Why? You know that story I touched on before about the death loop, well there’s more to it.
When the kite started the death loop I went for the quick release and it was jammed solid (with sand), I kept trying as I ran out of water and was now on the sand heading for the trees. The only thing in my favour was the wind died down for a few seconds, that gave me time to unhook. Other than some skin missing from the 20 meter sand drag all was ok but that’s why I am particular with my bar safety system… it’s good you are trying to work out what went wrong with yours.
Yes I think it's extremely important to learn from other people's accidents and be humble about it rather than judgmental.
Saying 'how stupid is he, this could never happen to me' is a missed opportunity to learn from other's mistakes. We often don't know the circumstances why something happened to someone else and simply dismissing it could be a mistake.
Select to expand quotecbulota said..
... Unfortunately those are the kiters that are probably not reading these forums.
When you see anyone get dragged with an out of control kite always urge them to release the safety, even if you think you can safely pick the kite up. It's by educating others around us that we can slowly make a difference and eventually save injuries and lives.
I said it before and I'll say it again, the main cause of injuries and deaths in our sport come from poor training and/or malfunctioning/outdated safety systems and/or slow/improper safety reflexes.
Too many kiters of various skill level and experience have never even deployed their safety systems ONCE while the kite was flying, while the majority of those have taken ''professional lessons" in a ''safe'' school....
If in doubt, pull the safety, that's what I have learned from my experience and your advice. I will try to not completely disconnect from the kite in future though unless I feel in immediate danger, because swimming in when you're far away from shore has its dangers too (getting tired, rips etc). So hanging on to the kite and using it for self-rescue is a better idea.
I'm astonished that ppl are hesitant to pull the safety. I'd say there is some ego involved as well. Live to kite another day...
Kajo,
Everything's been said for you and I am sure you'll get valuable tips from the above posts.
I am curious though about why your kite didn't flag properly.
Does your safety line (the one with the ring on the end) go all the way to another ring that is then attached to one of the front lines? That other or 2nd ring should be placed BEFORE the Y-point (or another set of rings depending on your setup).
I've attached this diagram to illustrate.
I didnt read all the posts. Some chicken loops bend too much and elongate e.g. Fone. This allows the donkey dick to come out and the whole thing detach.
Also the donkey dick can flex too much. You can try reinforcing the donkey dick with insulation tape ie wrapping it around and making it more rigid.
Ok here are a couple of pics of my BWS undertow bar (my finger is pointing at the trim line):
Select to expand quoteMacster said..
I didnt read all the posts. Some chicken loops bend too much and elongate e.g. Fone. This allows the donkey dick to come out and the whole thing detach.
Also the donkey dick can flex too much. You can try reinforcing the donkey dick with insulation tape ie wrapping it around and making it more rigid.
Yeah the plastics that make DDs can literally snap, but still be in two pieces inside the sewn sleeve. When this happens replace it, because soon it will tear apart and you could be in kitemare land.
Select to expand quoteKajo said..
Ok here are a couple of pics of my BWS undertow bar (my finger is pointing at the trim line):
Thanks
What is that little yellow ball looking thing at the Y pivot point? I suspect it's a stopped ball, which acts like the ring theory I mentioned in my diagram. If so, there is your problem - it's on the wrong side, or the connector point where that yellow stopper is shown, is in reverse.
Looks like you have under the bar depower there, which can be hard to adjust when the kite is powered up. The bws theory was that with everything below the bar and away from view, it was more like 'surfing'. In reality it just sucks, and their new bars have above bar depower, which is just heaps easier to use. Had a slingshot with below bar depower and I hated it, my ozone reo is above bar and soooo much easier. Cheers
Yes that is exactly right Marno, this must be the reason why I can't pull it. It's the bloody undertow design. I will eventually buy a 2nd kite and make sure it will have a more up-to-date bar design and simply use it on this kite too.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
Kajo said..
Ok here are a couple of pics of my BWS undertow bar (my finger is pointing at the trim line):
Thanks
What is that little yellow ball looking thing at the Y pivot point? I suspect it's a stopped ball, which acts like the ring theory I mentioned in my diagram. If so, there is your problem - it's on the wrong side, or the connector point where that yellow stopper is shown, is in reverse.
Loftywinds, the yellow bit is just a bit of rust on the line there. However I did notice something strange. The flagging line has a knot in it in front of the y bit. This knot currently prevents the line from moving further up towards the kite as it blocks the hole that the flagging line is passing through the y bit. I hope this makes sense. Should this knot be there?
Select to expand quoteKajo said..Loftywinds said..
Kajo said..
Ok here are a couple of pics of my BWS undertow bar (my finger is pointing at the trim line):
Thanks
What is that little yellow ball looking thing at the Y pivot point? I suspect it's a stopped ball, which acts like the ring theory I mentioned in my diagram. If so, there is your problem - it's on the wrong side, or the connector point where that yellow stopper is shown, is in reverse.
Loftywinds, the yellow bit is just a bit of rust on the line there. However I did notice something strange. The flagging line has a knot in it in front of the y bit. This knot currently prevents the line from moving further up towards the kite as it blocks the hole that the flagging line is passing through the y bit. I hope this makes sense. Should this knot be there?
Yep exactly what I suggested, you have a safety line jam, undo that knot and see if it slides. Also sometimes line junctions have a knot that's a little to big to slide freely on some bars, which can be a big safety concern!
Select to expand quotecbulota said..Kajo said..Loftywinds said..
Kajo said..
Ok here are a couple of pics of my BWS undertow bar (my finger is pointing at the trim line):
Thanks
What is that little yellow ball looking thing at the Y pivot point? I suspect it's a stopped ball, which acts like the ring theory I mentioned in my diagram. If so, there is your problem - it's on the wrong side, or the connector point where that yellow stopper is shown, is in reverse.
Loftywinds, the yellow bit is just a bit of rust on the line there. However I did notice something strange. The flagging line has a knot in it in front of the y bit. This knot currently prevents the line from moving further up towards the kite as it blocks the hole that the flagging line is passing through the y bit. I hope this makes sense. Should this knot be there?
Yep exactly what I suggested, you have a safety line jam, undo that knot and see if it slides. Also sometimes line junctions have a knot that's a little to big to slide freely on some bars, which can be a big safety concern!
Ok I'll try to undo the knot. Not sure how it got into it to be honest. Very strange... Thanks for your help with this!
Careful - if the knot is on the side closest to the chickenloop, then it's used for making sure the line is the right length to the kite under tension.
EG, when you release, the line doesn't shoot up to the kite, the bar shoots up the line. If the knot is on the side between the Y and the kite, then it's probably wrong (although having a stopper about half way up makes re-assembly easier).
Select to expand quotejms said..
Careful - if the knot is on the side closest to the chickenloop, then it's used for making sure the line is the right length to the kite under tension.
EG, when you release, the line doesn't shoot up to the kite, the bar shoots up the line. If the knot is on the side between the Y and the kite, then it's probably wrong (although having a stopper about half way up makes re-assembly easier).
I agree. Having knots acting as stoppers is bloody stupid IMO. Who the heck sold you this or played with it Kajo?
Select to expand quotejms said..
Careful - if the knot is on the side closest to the chickenloop, then it's used for making sure the line is the right length to the kite under tension.
EG, when you release, the line doesn't shoot up to the kite, the bar shoots up the line. If the knot is on the side between the Y and the kite, then it's probably wrong (although having a stopper about half way up makes re-assembly easier).
Yes I think you are right Jms. I looked and it looks like the lines had this knot in it all along. It's between the Y and the chicken loop, eventually blocking the line from traveling up towards the kite by getting caught in the Y. I assume this is supposed to be that way...?!
