Ok fellow kiters. I know this topic has been on here a few times but this has become personal now and I don't have any decent breeze in WA to help rectify the issue.
Background - 6.5 hours of lessons with a reputable school, another 20 ish hours kiting since. I can ride both ways, carve upwind, comfortably retrieve my board bodydragging, water launch and relaunch my kite, transition reasonably easily both ways.
What I can't seem to do is get my assisted launch correct. I am frequently having the kite start to climb then stall and roll along the beach. I never had this problem during lessons. It is dangerous and causes me anxiety during the launch phase.
I am following all of the requirements that you see on videos except one that I am unsure of. I only hold the bar by the top steering line to guide the kite up and I don't sheet in at all. Also, I have 50% trim in which I was told to do during lessons. Is this correct? Should I hold the bar partially in then depower as the kite climbs to 12 o'clock? Should I have the trim all the way out.
I have had this discussion with some other Newbies but I am now after a broader opinion.
Arrgghh!! Help. I want to fix this before I hurt someone.
TIA for your comments and assistance.
Hi Narrak,
The first thing you should know is that every launch will be a bit different from the next, depending mostly on the wind strength but also kite size.
The launching technique you explain (50% trim, bar out and slight pull of the steering line) would ONLY be a good/safe/effective technique in strong/very strong winds (i.e. 25 knots + ), essentially when you know you're overpowered.
- If you're using your kite in it's intended wind range (i.e. not overpowered) then you wouldn't want to trim it at all during the launching phase (that's of course assuming your lines are correctly tuned and all the same length).
- Regardless of the wind speed or kite size, you first have to have the right position (angle) between the kite and the wind direction, which typically corresponds to about 90 degrees. This angle will be greater in light winds (less than 15 knots = walk more upwind) and lesser in very strong winds (25 knots or more = walk more downwind).
Basically, without touching the bar (so bar is at full depower) your kite shouldn't be flapping while the assistant is holding it correctly. If the kite is flapping, then you're underpowered and you should walk a few more steps upwind. If the assistant is getting dragged while holding your kite, that's your fault/responsibility and you're either too far upwind and/or puling the bar too much, if that's the case, walk a few steps downwind and/or let go the bar.
- So assuming you have the correct position (kite is not flapping and assistant is not getting dragged) then grab the bar and pull the bar IN until the back lines have a minimum of tension (not dangling) AND you can feel a slight steering response (kite wants to go up) by steering the bar. How much you pull that bar in entirely depending on the wind speed/kite size/your position in relation to the kite and wind so there is no universal way here.
- If you don't have any tension in your back lines, your kite will launch underpowered and you won't have any control over it, which would explain the behavior you described. Pulling a steering line in that case would only oversteer it and likely bring it to the power zone.
- If the wind is not too strong (below 20 knots) it's typically best to launch the kite with a bit of power and steering so it has a bit of momentum when the assistant let's it go. As the kite rises up, simply push the bar out a bit and release a bit of steering, this will ensure it travels at the edge of window and not in the power zone. Remember that the wind strength you have at beach level can be quite different (a lot less) than the wind you have 24m above the ground.
So in summary: no flapping of the canopy, pull the bar until you can feel a steering response, use the bar and not the lines to bring it up and sheet out/steer less as the kite rises and don't use your trim unless you're overpowered. Also, never pull the bar all the way in when launching a kite...that's a problem you don't seem to have but it's very common among newbies...
Christian
It's tricky getting the kite in the right position relative to the wind direction as a newby, and particularly if the wind is not too strong. It sounds as though the kite is being too far upwind(or you are too far down wind) so when the kite is released it wants to roll back down wind to its preffered position.
Try a tethered launch with you holding the kite and move around to find the spot where the kite is stable and doesn't want to go backwards or forwards. (But don't release the kite if you are not comfortable with tether launches) or launch an experienced kiters kite for them so you can get a better feel for where the kite will be. The experienced Kiter will (should!) make sure the kite is in the right spot before signalling you to release it.
I think what you are describing is quite a tricky skill as a newby as the wind is always a little different.
Hope that helps a little
A flappy kite is an unhappy kite. Walk around until the kite stops flapping. Then give the thumbs up.
Christian nailed it properly whilst I was composing my amateur reply. Read his, not mine! Cheers
What they said ^^^^^
Shouldn't this be in the Kite schools that cannot teach thread ?
I'm not going to lie, I'm the worst launch assistant in the world, I hate it when people ask me for help on the launch, even more if they expect me to do the walking. I never seam to get it in the sweet zone. I'm always to much up or down wind. The kite ether get ripped out of my hands or the kite drifts back.
I'll only ever self launch!
Please don't ask me for help with the launch, cause I suck
Select to expand quotekemp90 said...
I'm not going to lie, I'm the worst launch assistant in the world, I hate it when people ask me for help on the launch, even more if they expect me to do the walking. I never seam to get it in the sweet zone. I'm always to much up or down wind. The kite ether get ripped out of my hands or the kite drifts back.
I'll only ever self launch!
Please don't ask me for help with the launch, cause I suck
The assistant shouldn't move. You simply lift the kite in position and stay still. The pilot is responsible for everything else.
I totally agree Christian, but I think it's difficult in narrow beaches where the Kiter can't go further back or up and down, because of dunes, fences, vehicles etc.
It's a challenge for the newby to get the setup right with a helpful kite launcher.
Maybe good advice is Kiter always on the ocean side
The launching assistant makes a big difference. You may have a poor launch assistant. I had one recently who held the kite half way between the centre strut and the wing tip. Consequently the kite folded over onto its back. The picture above shows the assistant holding the kite in the correct place. If the kite is rolling over onto its back, its normally the assistant holding it too low down. The correct action is to give the no launch signal (which you have pre agreed with the assistant - haven't you), walk to the assistant and correct their technique. Simples.
The incorrect but workable way is to walk until the kite is (just) upwind of you where it will start to show the correct shape. Then start to move upwind with the lines correctly tensioned until you can just see the kite starting to power forwards - take a step back downwind again - and give the signal to launch. The only time its acceptable as an assistant to hold the kite near the wing tip is at a steeply shelved beach launch where the lines are bent by the angle of the beach. In this case wait until the kiter is in position and only then start to move your hands down the leading edge.
On low wind days you can learn quite a bit practicing self launching small kites. Self launching is pretty much all about moving the kite into the same position you would normally get an assistant to hold it - and then doing a normal launch.
Select to expand quoteweebitbreezy said..
The launching assistant makes a big difference. You may have a poor launch assistant. I had one recently who held the kite half way between the centre strut and the wing tip. Consequently the kite folded over onto its back. The picture above shows the assistant holding the kite in the correct place. If the kite is rolling over onto its back, its normally the assistant holding it too low down. The correct action is to give the no launch signal (which you have pre agreed with the assistant - haven't you), walk to the assistant and correct their technique. Simples.
The incorrect but workable way is to walk until the kite is (just) upwind of you where it will start to show the correct shape. Then start to move upwind with the lines correctly tensioned until you can just see the kite starting to power forwards - take a step back downwind again - and give the signal to launch. The only time its acceptable as an assistant to hold the kite near the wing tip is at a steeply shelved beach launch where the lines are bent by the angle of the beach. In this case wait until the kiter is in position and only then start to move your hands down the leading edge.
On low wind days you can learn quite a bit practicing self launching small kites. Self launching is pretty much all about moving the kite into the same position you would normally get an assistant to hold it - and then doing a normal launch.
If your kites folding, you're not pumping it up enough.
You want a launch, you move your bum to the correct position.
Select to expand quoteweebitbreezy said...
The launching assistant makes a big difference. You may have a poor launch assistant. I had one recently who held the kite half way between the centre strut and the wing tip. Consequently the kite folded over onto its back. The picture above shows the assistant holding the kite in the correct place. If the kite is rolling over onto its back, its normally the assistant holding it too low down. The correct action is to give the no launch signal (which you have pre agreed with the assistant - haven't you), walk to the assistant and correct their technique. Simples.
The incorrect but workable way is to walk until the kite is (just) upwind of you where it will start to show the correct shape. Then start to move upwind with the lines correctly tensioned until you can just see the kite starting to power forwards - take a step back downwind again - and give the signal to launch. The only time its acceptable as an assistant to hold the kite near the wing tip is at a steeply shelved beach launch where the lines are bent by the angle of the beach. In this case wait until the kiter is in position and only then start to move your hands down the leading edge.
On low wind days you can learn quite a bit practicing self launching small kites. Self launching is pretty much all about moving the kite into the same position you would normally get an assistant to hold it - and then doing a normal launch.
If your kite folded over it was you that was in the wrong position
Self launch is self launch nobody to blame
Tether launch, walk the kite well upwind,
Offer tension to the lines and walk slowly downwind,
The kite will form up and give feedback that it's in the correct spot
Do this downwind and it'll fold over or put you on your arse ( strong winds)
In lower to low winds I trim my depower prior to launching
Assisted launch, I give it to the launcher tilted in the correct position and with a discription of signal, I offer a bit of tension downwind and walk up to the correct position, quick check of lines and chicken loop , donk dick , trim/ depower , thumbs up , and away you go
Thanks everyone. Helpful discussion.
It appears that my only issue (after considering each element of the comments) is that I am trimmed in too far and don't have hold of the bar so I have slack lines and no kite control as it launches.
Appreciate your assistance. 
Select to expand quotecbulota said..kemp90 said...
I'm not going to lie, I'm the worst launch assistant in the world, I hate it when people ask me for help on the launch, even more if they expect me to do the walking. I never seam to get it in the sweet zone. I'm always to much up or down wind. The kite ether get ripped out of my hands or the kite drifts back.
I'll only ever self launch!
Please don't ask me for help with the launch, cause I suck
The assistant shouldn't move. You simply lift the kite in position and stay still. The pilot is responsible for everything else.
Depends how experienced the kite flyer is! I've had guys giving me the thrumbs up to let go and the kite is still flapping about. I walk the kite into position in that case.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..cbulota said..kemp90 said...
I'm not going to lie, I'm the worst launch assistant in the world, I hate it when people ask me for help on the launch, even more if they expect me to do the walking. I never seam to get it in the sweet zone. I'm always to much up or down wind. The kite ether get ripped out of my hands or the kite drifts back.
I'll only ever self launch!
Please don't ask me for help with the launch, cause I suck
The assistant shouldn't move. You simply lift the kite in position and stay still. The pilot is responsible for everything else.
Depends how experienced the kite flyer is! I've had guys giving me the thrumbs up to let go and the kite is still flapping about. I walk the kite into position in that case.Select to expand quotePlummet said..cbulota said..kemp90 said...
I'm not going to lie, I'm the worst launch assistant in the world, I hate it when people ask me for help on the launch, even more if they expect me to do the walking. I never seam to get it in the sweet zone. I'm always to much up or down wind. The kite ether get ripped out of my hands or the kite drifts back.
I'll only ever self launch!
Please don't ask me for help with the launch, cause I suck
The assistant shouldn't move. You simply lift the kite in position and stay still. The pilot is responsible for everything else.
Depends how experienced the kite flyer is! I've had guys giving me the thrumbs up to let go and the kite is still flapping about. I walk the kite into position in that case.
Agreed, I do the sameas I can easily feel when the kite is in the correct position when I am assisting.
Select to expand quotecbulota said..
Hi Narrak,
The first thing you should know is that every launch will be a bit different from the next, depending mostly on the wind strength but also kite size.
The launching technique you explain (50% trim, bar out and slight pull of the steering line) would ONLY be a good/safe/effective technique in strong/very strong winds (i.e. 25 knots + ), essentially when you know you're overpowered.
- If you're using your kite in it's intended wind range (i.e. not overpowered) then you wouldn't want to trim it at all during the launching phase (that's of course assuming your lines are correctly tuned and all the same length).
- Regardless of the wind speed or kite size, you first have to have the right position (angle) between the kite and the wind direction, which typically corresponds to about 90 degrees. This angle will be greater in light winds (less than 15 knots = walk more upwind) and lesser in very strong winds (25 knots or more = walk more downwind).
Basically, without touching the bar (so bar is at full depower) your kite shouldn't be flapping while the assistant is holding it correctly. If the kite is flapping, then you're underpowered and you should walk a few more steps upwind. If the assistant is getting dragged while holding your kite, that's your fault/responsibility and you're either too far upwind and/or puling the bar too much, if that's the case, walk a few steps downwind and/or let go the bar.
- So assuming you have the correct position (kite is not flapping and assistant is not getting dragged) then grab the bar and pull the bar IN until the back lines have a minimum of tension (not dangling) AND you can feel a slight steering response (kite wants to go up) by steering the bar. How much you pull that bar in entirely depending on the wind speed/kite size/your position in relation to the kite and wind so there is no universal way here.
- If you don't have any tension in your back lines, your kite will launch underpowered and you won't have any control over it, which would explain the behavior you described. Pulling a steering line in that case would only oversteer it and likely bring it to the power zone.
- If the wind is not too strong (below 20 knots) it's typically best to launch the kite with a bit of power and steering so it has a bit of momentum when the assistant let's it go. As the kite rises up, simply push the bar out a bit and release a bit of steering, this will ensure it travels at the edge of window and not in the power zone. Remember that the wind strength you have at beach level can be quite different (a lot less) than the wind you have 24m above the ground.
So in summary: no flapping of the canopy, pull the bar until you can feel a steering response, use the bar and not the lines to bring it up and sheet out/steer less as the kite rises and don't use your trim unless you're overpowered. Also, never pull the bar all the way in when launching a kite...that's a problem you don't seem to have but it's very common among newbies...
Christian
Thanks Christian,
Great explanation and information. I believe that my issue is twofold. Release the trim 100% and use the bar to steer the kite up gently not just the upper steering line.
Appreciate your effort and imput.
Trim the kite only in the lower wind ranges, a depowered kite won't have launching issues in decent winds, you don't want to bring a fully powered kite through the wind window during launch ,in decent winds
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..weebitbreezy said..
The launching assistant makes a big difference. You may have a poor launch assistant. I had one recently who held the kite half way between the centre strut and the wing tip. Consequently the kite folded over onto its back. The picture above shows the assistant holding the kite in the correct place. If the kite is rolling over onto its back, its normally the assistant holding it too low down. The correct action is to give the no launch signal (which you have pre agreed with the assistant - haven't you), walk to the assistant and correct their technique. Simples.
The incorrect but workable way is to walk until the kite is (just) upwind of you where it will start to show the correct shape. Then start to move upwind with the lines correctly tensioned until you can just see the kite starting to power forwards - take a step back downwind again - and give the signal to launch. The only time its acceptable as an assistant to hold the kite near the wing tip is at a steeply shelved beach launch where the lines are bent by the angle of the beach. In this case wait until the kiter is in position and only then start to move your hands down the leading edge.
On low wind days you can learn quite a bit practicing self launching small kites. Self launching is pretty much all about moving the kite into the same position you would normally get an assistant to hold it - and then doing a normal launch.
If your kites folding, you're not pumping it up enough.
You want a launch, you move your bum to the correct position.
North kites - 6PSI. Easy. I don't have a problem launching. I'm trying to point out to OP who does worry about launching that they may encounter situations where the launcher is creating a problem. I did move to a correct position but it did involve more of the assistants time as it was necessary to move down wind first before moving back to the correct position.
You gotta take responsibility for your own safety. If the assistant is doing stuff that is either making things harder or more dangerous I'm going to either correct them or say 'thank you for your time' and self launch.
These guys are sometimes at my local beach:
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Select to expand quotecbulota said..
So in summary: no flapping of the canopy, pull the bar until you can feel a steering response, use the bar and not the lines to bring it up and sheet out/steer less as the kite rises and don't use your trim unless you're overpowered. Also, never pull the bar all the way in when launching a kite...that's a problem you don't seem to have but it's very common among newbies...
Very good @cbulota.
That always baffles me when I see people launching kites by pulling whilst holding one line about 2ft from the bar end.
Or when the person is way way too upwind and pulling the bar all the way in and has that "wtf are you doing face!?" aimed at the person battling their overpowered kite that's trying to hit 'em on the head.
Is this how schools teach? Just pull the line to launch the kite and it doesn't matter if there's wind in the canopy or not? I hope not.
But I do see people coming from kite school lessons being bigger kooks compared to self taught kiters. At least here in Australia. Haven't seen anything remotely similar to this in Europe. Not cool, and very dangerous.
Select to expand quoteNarrak said..cbulota said..
Hi Narrak,
The first thing you should know is that every launch will be a bit different from the next, depending mostly on the wind strength but also kite size.
The launching technique you explain (50% trim, bar out and slight pull of the steering line) would ONLY be a good/safe/effective technique in strong/very strong winds (i.e. 25 knots + ), essentially when you know you're overpowered.
- If you're using your kite in it's intended wind range (i.e. not overpowered) then you wouldn't want to trim it at all during the launching phase (that's of course assuming your lines are correctly tuned and all the same length).
- Regardless of the wind speed or kite size, you first have to have the right position (angle) between the kite and the wind direction, which typically corresponds to about 90 degrees. This angle will be greater in light winds (less than 15 knots = walk more upwind) and lesser in very strong winds (25 knots or more = walk more downwind).
Basically, without touching the bar (so bar is at full depower) your kite shouldn't be flapping while the assistant is holding it correctly. If the kite is flapping, then you're underpowered and you should walk a few more steps upwind. If the assistant is getting dragged while holding your kite, that's your fault/responsibility and you're either too far upwind and/or puling the bar too much, if that's the case, walk a few steps downwind and/or let go the bar.
- So assuming you have the correct position (kite is not flapping and assistant is not getting dragged) then grab the bar and pull the bar IN until the back lines have a minimum of tension (not dangling) AND you can feel a slight steering response (kite wants to go up) by steering the bar. How much you pull that bar in entirely depending on the wind speed/kite size/your position in relation to the kite and wind so there is no universal way here.
- If you don't have any tension in your back lines, your kite will launch underpowered and you won't have any control over it, which would explain the behavior you described. Pulling a steering line in that case would only oversteer it and likely bring it to the power zone.
- If the wind is not too strong (below 20 knots) it's typically best to launch the kite with a bit of power and steering so it has a bit of momentum when the assistant let's it go. As the kite rises up, simply push the bar out a bit and release a bit of steering, this will ensure it travels at the edge of window and not in the power zone. Remember that the wind strength you have at beach level can be quite different (a lot less) than the wind you have 24m above the ground.
So in summary: no flapping of the canopy, pull the bar until you can feel a steering response, use the bar and not the lines to bring it up and sheet out/steer less as the kite rises and don't use your trim unless you're overpowered. Also, never pull the bar all the way in when launching a kite...that's a problem you don't seem to have but it's very common among newbies...
Christian
Thanks Christian,
Great explanation and information. I believe that my issue is twofold. Release the trim 100% and use the bar to steer the kite up gently not just the upper steering line.
Appreciate your effort and imput.
I was able to get out and launch today. 15 kts, no trim, bar half way in voila, 3 launches, 3 successes. Thanks again for all of the assistance.
Any tips on tether launching a BRM Cloud with their unique bar/no CL safety system? What to tether to and no leash, the kite wouldn't be secured while attaching to harness. Sorry if I'm not articulating this well.
Select to expand quotegorgemay said..
Here's a photo of the BRM connection system and bar.
WTF is this!? A circus' trapeez bar and lines?!
Where's the chicken loop?
Where's the safety?
What the hell is going on with the bar ends?
OMG get rid of it !!!
What about de-power? Do you de-power much when you launch? I usually do at least 50% except in light winds.
Select to expand quotegorgemay said...
Any tips on tether launching a BRM Cloud with their unique bar/no CL safety system? What to tether to and no leash, the kite wouldn't be secured while attaching to harness. Sorry if I'm not articulating this well.
I saw a fellow at my local use his BRM bag filled with sand & used that somehow.
Join the Cloudriders group on Facebook & ask there.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
WTF is this!? A circus' trapeez bar and lines?!
Where's the chicken loop?
Where's the safety?
What the hell is going on with the bar ends?
OMG get rid of it !!!
Take the time to watch this video and all will revealed.
This guy has taken the time and thought outside the square to design a very simple but effective control system that does away with most of the old style cumbersome gear on traditional control systems. The only problem I can see is that it wont work for kiters who ride unhooked. Since the majority ride hooked in then I personally think that this is a great system to use, and hope other manufacturers come on board in the future.
Select to expand quotegorgemay said...
Any tips on tether launching a BRM Cloud with their unique bar/no CL safety system? What to tether to and no leash, the kite wouldn't be secured while attaching to harness. Sorry if I'm not articulating this well.
Maybe something like this from the "don't show us your hook thread" might need a different type of clip
After watching the video and seeing how it all works. Instead of looping the bottom loop arround the spreader bar or hook you could clip it in allowing the use of a tether launch rope and clip like on a chicken loop. Could get fiddley with two clips in such a small loop but. Possibly make a custom bottom loop up that's a bit bigger with an eylet of some sort that holds the loops shape under load to allow room to hook in and out.
I'm not familiar at all with this system, just what I saw as a possibility from watching the video. I'm sure someone will shoot me down if I am way off the mark here 
