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Forums > Kitesurfing   Newbies / Tips & Tricks

Traction control bar with a 4 line trainer kite

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Created by tonymsb > 9 months ago, 15 Nov 2015
tonymsb
2 posts
15 Nov 2015 8:46AM
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Hi
I am planning to take up kitesurfing and after watching the videos and some cursory reading I have decided to go for a 4 line high end trainer kite so I can best simulate flying a proper traction kite while self learning on land. After that prior self learning with a trainer kite, I plan to do a more intensive one on one training with an instructor.

So I register the right muscle memory for the safety and flying routine while practising with the trainer kite, I thought I will buy the control bar for the traction kite I intend to buy eventually and use that with the trainer kite. I am assuming that I can later buy a traction kite without the control bar as I do not want to buy a traction kite now till I have done my training. Is that combination of a trainer kite with a traction kite control bar possible ? If so can you please recommend me the traction kite control bar and trainer kite combinations that I could pair including the recommended initial kite size.

I am willing to invest in the higher end of the products if there is going to be a functional gain and easier/convenient learning in paying more as I am committed to pursuing this sport long term. I have siblings and nephews who will be interested once I start so the investment in a pricey top of the line product can be shared. I am determined to put in the initial training hours and investment to skill up to an intermediate level quickly. I am fit and played a lot of sport at a relatively advanced level including gymnastics, so though I have never done much boarding sports, I think I can pick up the board skills and balance relatively faster than an average learner if I spend the time to master the kite skills on land prior to learning the board skills on water.

I will appreciate if you can point me to any online reading material or previous blog topics and any offer of advice for a newbie.

If it is confirmed that I can pair a traction kite control bar with a trainer kite, I plan to make the purchase in the next few days.

Thanks.

KiteBud
WA, 1564 posts
15 Nov 2015 10:01AM
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Hi Tonymsb,

It's great to see your enthusiasm to learn the sport and try to get as much preparation done before lessons.

Practicing flying trainer kites is great fun for you and the family as long as it's done in safe environment and in the right wind conditions.

I must tell you that as an instructor with many thousands hours of experience, the vast majority of newbies, even the ones with the best intentions, who over-fly trainer kites without any coaching/supervision develop some bad flying habits. Simply put, it's easier and much faster to teach you the good habits from scratch with zero prior flying experience than it is to try and correct the bad habits you developed while self-learning. Prior to teaching kitesurfing I was teaching snowboarding for 15 years and it was the same thing...all my students who tried to self-learn prior to lessons took much longer to break the bad habits and learn the right ones as opposed to my students who came with zero experience.

Here are my suggestions:

Option 1- Purchase a 2-line foil trainer kite ($200-300) and fly it for only a couple of minutes until you understand what turns left, what turns right, the wind window and power zones. Fly the kite steadily at all different clock positions with two, then one hand. It should take you no more than 30 minutes to figure that out. Then book your first lesson straight away. After this you can use the trainer kite for showing your family and have some harmless fun on *light* wind days on the beach.

Option 2 - Book your first lesson straight away and learn the basics about wind, safety, kite control, safety systems, launching and landing safely, etc. Then purchase a 4 line inflatable trainer kite and fly it on your own as long as you and your instructor mutually agree that you are ready for it. The only kite I can recommend for this is the Ozone Uno 4m. They are not cheap and you will have to purchase an Ozone bar for this (this will cost you a total of over $1200 + harness $300). This means later you will have to purchase a bigger Ozone kite to match this bar. Then book your lesson 2 and 3. If done safely without bad habits, the flying time you do after the first lesson will greatly accelerate your progression in the following lessons. If you look at the cost of the Uno (without bar), that money would easily buy you 6 hours of lessons...so you have think if it's really worth it.

Things I don't recommend:

-Learning to fly a 4 line kite on your own, especially if done on a busy beach and strong winds...not only you will develop bad habits but you will most likely crash the kite hard, risk damaging your gear and be a danger for yourself and everyone else around.

-Flying a 2-line trainer kite for many hours constantly driving it through the power zone.

-Teaching your family with a 4-line inflatable kite. Regardless of it's size it can be dangerous. Last week I convinced an adult who was trying to teach probably his own son with a 4m Ozone Uno in 25-30 knots with 24 meter lines. Not only he himself wasn't great at flying and crashed the kite hard and got dragged on the beach (90 kg), but the little guy was probably about 4-5 years old with a harness on weighing something like 25 KG...I cannot start to imagine how this would've turned out if I hadn't had a chat with him and convinced him not to hook the kite on to his son.

Think about it this way, would you lend your car to your nephews before they take some driving lessons so they can develop the ''safe and right muscle memory'' of driving? Take your time when shopping around for lessons as well. High quality instruction will easily outweigh any prior flying training you do on your own.

Self-learning the basic theoretical aspects about wind, terminology, safety systems, etc. by watching videos and training DVD's is the best thing you can do prior to lessons.

Christian

rockykite
VIC, 62 posts
16 Nov 2015 12:02AM
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Select to expand quote
cbulota said..

Self-learning the basic theoretical aspects about wind, terminology, safety systems, etc. by watching videos and training DVD's is the best thing you can do prior to lessons.


I will even go as far to say that using a trainer kite is by and large pointless.
My first lesson involved obviously using a trainer kite on a day with minimal wind. Without having ever flown a kite before, I found it extremely difficult to keep the kite in the air and moving. My instructor managed to fly the trainer kite, but even watching him I could see he was struggling. As a result, I didn't get any experience whatsoever flying a trainer in my first session with an instructor.
Before I commenced my second session, I did quite a bit of reading on the internet about the wind window and the theory behind flying kites, in preparation for my next lesson. By the time I was ready for my second lesson, I had all of the theory down pat.
So when it came to my second lesson I was actually quite quick to learn the basics of flying a proper kite due to my understanding of the wind window and bar input.
My point of this story is having not basically used a trainer kite, it didn't hinder my ability to learn at all. I think too much emphasis is put on trainer kites. They served no purpose for me.

tonymsb
2 posts
15 Nov 2015 9:15PM
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Hi Christian
Thanks for that detailed advice and info. The first videos I watch when learning anything are the ones of things that can go wrong so appreciate your highlighting the concerns of potential risks with going too far ahead with self learning. But I do a lot of research too as youtube now caters to any topic you want to learn for an inquisitive and persistent mind and I have already watched over 100 videos by playing them at double speed !

I will opt for your option 1. I pulled a muscle at my upper back a second time after recommencing my exercises prematurely so I will have rest it a couple of months before I can do anything strenuous so most likely that advice of not over self training may not be heeded in full :)



Loftywinds
QLD, 2060 posts
16 Nov 2015 9:37PM
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Christian is correct, and you need to get lessons, but don't try to learn it all on your own. It will slow your progress, if you survive!
However, one thing I need to point out, is your terminology.

There are kites and there are kites!

Firstly, a 'traction' kite is another name for a Power kite. A power kite is NOT a kite surfing kite, well not in the hands of a beginner anyway.

Anything that can latch onto wind and pull you, be a kite, a box, a piece of plastic, an old umbrella, anything that wind can push will be enough to pull you, and depending on wind speed, conditions and 'kite' used, you could be pulled hard enough to hurt yourself. Of course with a real kite surfing kite, which is either a foil (or twin skin) or an inflatable (or called a Leading Edge Inflatable) kite, you will learn to kite surf, but only in terms of handling the kite. Water starting yourself with a kite and a board, requires co-ordination, muscle memory and lessons coupled of course with lots and lots of practice.

Personally, it took me 1 season to just get going for 100 metres, and another season to control my direction, some upwind ability and transitions (changing direction). Another season on top of that and I started doing basic jumps. So in all about 3 to 4 years!! Kite surfing requires commitment and determination. But of course some learn it more quickly than others. However, to boost my initial sessions without ever touching a kite surfing kite in my life, it was a good investment to do 4 to 6 lessons at least!

I digress. Power kites are kites that are used either with handles or a bar, and have very little to mostly NO depower. Most trainer kites (HQ Hydra, Gasstra, Ozone Octane, etc) are power kites that are good for static flying on land mostly. And as you've probably guessed, Power kites are great for buggies and land boarding. However, they provide little safety features, there is no power control (depower), and they are not made for jumps!

Leading Edge InflatablEs (LEI) are what most people use when kite surfing. They are relatively simple to control, have few tangles and bridles compared to trainer or foil twin skin kites and are mostly 4 lines, which means two lines in the middle leading into your harness and two outside lines for kite steering left or right. Unlike Power or Traction kites as you call it, LEI kites take most of the forces through your harness so as to not tire you on your arms. Whereas, a power kite is generally controlled and held by your arms alone, and the pulling power of such kites is quite strong and powerful.

So, you want to get a 'trainer' kite? Stay away from the Uno. Try the Ozone Imp 1.5mt or Ozone Octane, which comes with a control bar, a basic chicken loop so you can use the kite with a real harness. If you really want the full "kite surfing" experience, without buying a huge 10 or 12mt kite, then get a 4mt LEI kite with bar, lines, pump, bag and a harness (I recommend Mystic). You will have a mini kite surfing kit, that you could use one day in winds above 30 to 40knots even - when you"re experienced of course. But at least you will have the real deal. Like Cbula said, if you just buy a trainer kite with 2 lines, no depower, no harness, all you will ever learn is just static flying and figure eight flying which is very minimal.

BUT before any of the above, book your first lesson now, get real training from pros and you will be heading in the right direction.

Good winds and safe riding!!

Gorgo
VIC, 5041 posts
17 Nov 2015 8:03AM
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There's a fair bit of over thinking going on here with the trainer kite question. It's both simpler and more complex than it looks. It doesn't matter which kite you practice on as long as you practice. You're just trying to kick start the skills acquisition process.

There's no firm dividing line between the trainer kite and starting kitesurfing. You just do stuff and stuff happens. You sort stuff out and you learn things. There's no need to get a trainer that exactly mimics your kitesurfing kite. It's all experience and knowledge gained. When you start kiting everything is always the same every time, until something unusual happens. That is where your problem solving skills have to kick in and sort it almost immediately.

In the first instance you're just trying to learn to fly a kite. That truly takes only about 30 minutes.

You're also trying to develop the muscle memory and basic skills to have kite flying as a natural part of your body. That can take hours. The more you do the better.

You want to develop kite oriented problem solving skills. The kite is there. I am here. How do I get the kite to flip over and relaunch without me going there? Which combination of lines and tension can achieve the result I want? Can I do it without walking or running or whatever? What impossible situation can I get into then sort out with simple movements?

Finally you're learning basic line and kite management skills. How to wind and unwind lines without getting tangles. How to quickly and easily sort out tangles. How to pick a spot to set up and pack up a kite. The effect of turbulence and bushes and crap on the ground.



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"Traction control bar with a 4 line trainer kite" started by tonymsb