Just when you thought performance kites couldn't get any higher performing, Ocean Rodeo are continuing to push the boundaries even further with Aluula Graflyte and Aeris-X.
Aeris-X canopy material is being advertised as 10 times more tear resistant than ripstop, 3 times more UV resistant, no stretch, and 40% lighter.
The Aluula Graflyte is measured as 20% lighter than Aluula gold.
The company has a goal of creating a 1 Kg, inflatable kite, and they are well and truly on their way.
I can't wait for the first production Kite using these new exotic materials to come out, and abolish the light wind market.
We will need pegs to keep thte kites on the beach !
I really like to see those innovations. Light kites do make a difference, especially in low winds. I have a quiver of 4x Airush Ultra Team kites which are absolutely amazing for light wind foiling. I can only imagine with stiffer and ligther canopy that it can only be better!
The biggest problem is cost to the average consumer. I believe only about 1% of kiters would be able to afford these sort of kites, which I believe will cost at least $4k for a 10m kite.
As a retailer, in the current economy, it's hard enough to sell kites at $2k, imagine selling them at $4k or $5k!
I like the new tech too and are impressed by the innovations OR brings out. Saying that I can't emphasize enough what cbulota writes. Being a family father of two, even standard 2k$ per kite is too expensive for me so I opt for closeout sales on previous years models. I can only see tech nerds spending even more money on kites than the Aluula kites costs.
Finally....hilarious that the stoneage comment....the 12 will have the power of the 17 is used again.....
Select to expand quotemagnusod said..
I like the new tech too and are impressed by the innovations OR brings out. Saying that I can't emphasize enough what cbulota writes. Being a family father of two, even standard 2k$ per kite is too expensive for me so I opt for closeout sales on previous years models. I can only see tech nerds spending even more money on kites than the Aluula kites costs.
Finally....hilarious that the stoneage comment....the 12 will have the power of the 17 is used again.....
I do think that statement will be correct in context.
In lighter winds, the 17 meters at a point don't generate enough lift to kite as they are too heavy. I think, this is the area where an ultralight , ultra low drag speed machine is going to be able to out perform the 17.
Compare something heavy like a 16 meter vegas ( If they come in that size ) and a 12 meter allula in 8 kts.
The allula already gives the heavier 16 a run for the money.
Regarding the cost I hear you, unfortunately that is the price to pay for performance. There are a few counter arguements where instead of needing to buy a 12 and a 17 meter, you can just get a 12 for twice the cost. Over time the mass poduction of these exotic materials also further reduces some cost. Some people also never buy new equipment either, and you can probably buy a whole quiver for the price of even a single kite, and they have the same arguement about " normal " kite prices.
I remeber kiting back in the early 2000's where a 12 meter was about 1400-1600 with bar and lines. ( depending on the model and bar and lines ). Very shortly after that manufacturers started selling the bars seperately, but the base price didn't reduce,
20 years later and the price has bearly doubled. ( Depending on the models you look at )The exotics should be charging more or else they would be permanently sold out and probably manufactured at a loss. I remember trying to relaunch my 12 meter aluula in utterly almost no wind. It was so light, I could not get a wingtip to catch the wind, the entire kite was rotating, then I pulled both back lines and it reversed straight out of the water in.... 4 kts? Definitely not enough to kite in, but not enough for any other tube kite to relaunch in either.
I can only imagine what will happen with a kite that weighs 50% of the weight of the roam.
Relaunch in 2-3kts with eyes closed anyone ??
:)
OR won't make a proper light kite till they make a 1 strut. Currently feels like they have great materials which were definitely game-changing, being held back slightly by good design (not amazing design).
I've flow A-roam 8m & 10m and A-flite 14.5m and reckon the Ultra Team fly better, just quietly. While the Roams are light in the sky and light on the bar, and make deceptively more power than they feel, they do have some shortcomings to me. Hunt around rather than flying straight, get lost at the edges of the wind window, etc.
Meanwhile ive had a 19m twin skin that weighs 1.9kgs for 4 years now .... dominico 10 cloth (including the many many lines)
Select to expand quoteKBGhost said..
OR won't make a proper light kite till they make a 1 strut. Currently feels like they have great materials which were definitely game-changing, being held back slightly by good design (not amazing design).
I've flow A-roam 8m & 10m and A-flite 14.5m and reckon the Ultra Team fly better, just quietly. While the Roams are light in the sky and light on the bar, and make deceptively more power than they feel, they do have some shortcomings to me. Hunt around rather than flying straight, get lost at the edges of the wind window, etc.
What do you mean by proper light kite? OR allready have the lightest tube kites on the market bar no strut or matress kites.
The issue with 1 struts is they sacrifice performance for weight. That is not something that's happeneing with the aluula.
Having said that, the Roam is really a light wind foil and surf kite and does not jump well.
The rise is a good jumper, but will be too fast for a lot of people.
The flight is being re-done as a monster jumper with less nimbleness than the rise..... but that is not out yet.
All 3 would benefit with another 20-30% weight reduction
I listened to a podcast a while back and it was mentioned that they are working on a more affordable budget aluula version. Has anyone heard some news about that?
Select to expand quoteFroth Goth said..
Meanwhile ive had a 19m twin skin that weighs 1.9kgs for 4 years now .... dominico 10 cloth (including the many many lines)
Really? 1.9kg for a 19m foil kite? Which brand and model?
Ill give you a clue steve, they even put little tiny loops on leading edge extrados to put golf tees into the hole so that it doesnt slide down the snowy mountain face 
Select to expand quoteFroth Goth said..
Ill give you a clue steve, they even put little tiny loops on leading edge extrados to put golf tees into the hole so that it doesnt slide down the snowy mountain face
No idea what drugs you are on but they seem to help you talk sh1t?
Why don't you just answer the question?
Select to expand quotedachopper said..KBGhost said..
OR won't make a proper light kite till they make a 1 strut. Currently feels like they have great materials which were definitely game-changing, being held back slightly by good design (not amazing design).
...
What do you mean by proper light kite? OR allready have the lightest tube kites on the market bar no strut or matress kites.
The issue with 1 struts is they sacrifice performance for weight. That is not something that's happeneing with the aluula.
...
All 3 would benefit with another 20-30% weight reduction
1 struts typically only lose performance in their very upper wind range - which is traded off for superior performance in the lower and mid part of their wind range. Generally they aren't flown in the very upper end of their wind range - if you're not boosting you don't want to be overpowered all the time. So in a real world situation there is typically only a performance gain from going to 1 strut in the situations where a 1 strut is appropriate. For OR to ignore this because "that's not happening with Aluula" is just weird. Every other manufacturer sees the benefit of a dedicated 1 strut model.
Select to expand quoteItsmealex said..
I listened to a podcast a while back and it was mentioned that they are working on a more affordable budget aluula version. Has anyone heard some news about that?
I think thats a reference to the Hybrid OR models that have a mix of Aluula and dacron?
Select to expand quoteKBGhost said..dachopper said..KBGhost said..
OR won't make a proper light kite till they make a 1 strut. Currently feels like they have great materials which were definitely game-changing, being held back slightly by good design (not amazing design).
...
What do you mean by proper light kite? OR allready have the lightest tube kites on the market bar no strut or matress kites.
The issue with 1 struts is they sacrifice performance for weight. That is not something that's happeneing with the aluula.
...
All 3 would benefit with another 20-30% weight reduction
1 struts typically only lose performance in their very upper wind range - which is traded off for superior performance in the lower and mid part of their wind range. Generally they aren't flown in the very upper end of their wind range - if you're not boosting you don't want to be overpowered all the time. So in a real world situation there is typically only a performance gain from going to 1 strut in the situations where a 1 strut is appropriate. For OR to ignore this because "that's not happening with Aluula" is just weird. Every other manufacturer sees the benefit of a dedicated 1 strut model.
I think you are not aware here, of just how much lighter the OR kites actually are. They are lighter, FAR - lighter, than the best 1 strut kites on the market today, and their performance is reflective of this.Lower light wind relaunch, quicker light wind turning, all round superior in the sense you would expect. I did a back to back with the Mono and it felt sluggish and heavy in manoeuvres in comparison. Don't ge me wrong, 1 stut kites are absolutely superior to heavy dacron / ripstock 5 strut kites, but the alula is like that same gap again between a 1 strut, and the Ocean Rodeo Aluula Roam kite.
The weights speak for themselves, and where light wind performance is regarded, weight is king:
You can easily compare the OR Aluula ROAM kite with other kites:
The Duotone Aluula kites appear to be roughly on par weight wise against single strut kites. That is, the weight of D-lab 3 / 5 strut 9 meter kites roughly match the weight of other 9 meter single strut kites including their own mono.
Ocean Rodeo are on another planet however:
A 14 meter 3 strut Ocean Rodeo Roam weighs less than almost all 9 meter 1 strut kites, so about the same as a 1 strut kite 2/3's the size
The OR Roam weighs about the same as a " normal " kite half it's size.
1 strut or Duotone Aluula in the same size are 35% heavier than OR Roam
"Normal" kites in the same size are + 60 - 80% heavier ( Although this obviously varies massively )
12m Ocean Rodeo Aluula Roam 2.17 kg
6m Duotone Evo 2.17 kg
9m Air-rush Ultra V4 2.19 kg
6m Duotone Dice 2.25 kg
14m Ocean Rodeo Aluula Roam 2.31 kg
9m Duotone Mono 2.31 kg
9m Duotone Evo D-LAB aluula 2.32 kg
9m Cabrinha 1 strut Contra 2.44 kg
9m Duotone NEO D-LAB Aluula 2.44 kg
7m Duotone Vegas 2.71kg
7m Duotone Rebel SLS 2.54 kg
12m Air-rush Ultra V4 2.69 kg
12m Neo D-lab Aluula 2.88 kg
12m Vegas 3.81 kg
13 Duotone Mono 2.87 kg
14m Air-rush Ultra V4 3.06 kg
14m Evo 3.65 kg
You need to fly one of these before you really gain an appreciation of the difference 30% extra weight , plus a more bendy frame makes in light wind conditions. I sold my 12 mono shortly after flying the 12 OR, there was simply no way it was ever going to be used again in light winds
Nice stats which aren't always easy to collect (Naish - looking at you) but you got the wrong Airush, the Ultra Team is the light one with their Hookipa fabric.. Which is the only real competitor using their own next gen fabric. Until Duotone makes a Dlab Mono, there' s nothing else worth talking about really, without going to zero struts. Or Core/SS or some of the others flirting with Aluula start producing with it, which might not be far off.
So
A-Roam 12m : 2.17kg vs Ultra Team 12m: 2.39kg
A-Roam 9m: 1.76kg vs Ultra Team 9m : 1.98kgs
Yes there's ~200g there, bit over half a can of coke, but having flown both quite a bit I'm of the opinion that the OR doesn't have quite the same sorted and eager feeling in the sky as the Airush, and therefore those 2 extra struts aren't helping performance in any meaningful way. Add another kilo, sure, there would be a huge difference. I also have a 9m mono and agree with your feelings on it. But when weights are ballpark then all the other factors have an influence - flying characteristics across whole wind range and window, durability, cost, etc I don't boost on a foil yet so I can't compare those factors.
Weight is only really critical in super light wind, which this discussion isn't really about (personally I'm done with sub 8kt kiting, too much hassle too little payoff, winds too variable). I own a 10m foil kite (PLKB U/L Nova) which weighs in at 1.48kgs. Previously I had a 13m Peak 4 which weighs 1.64kgs. Does that make one of those the best if weight is king? Well, at staying in the air when it lulls to 3kts, you need "sail area vs weight" ratio, full stop. Peak first, Twin skin foil 2nd, inflatable a very distant 3rd. However there's more to light wind kiting than that, and for me I have more fun with the responsiveness of inflatables even though they are much heavier.
While the Roams are a great kite, light on the bar and in the sky, I still think a/ they could fly just a little better in some situations and b/ they could shed another 200g by dropping the 2 unneccessary struts. And unless OR gets ahead of these 2 factors, their first mover advantage with Aluula will be eaten away any day now when someone comes along with a 1.5kg 9m single strut aluula (or equiv) inflatable. Anyway just my 2c.
Select to expand quoteKBGhost said..
Nice stats which aren't always easy to collect (Naish - looking at you) but you got the wrong Airush, the Ultra Team is the light one with their Hookipa fabric.. Which is the only real competitor using their own next gen fabric. Until Duotone makes a Dlab Mono, there' s nothing else worth talking about really, without going to zero struts. Or Core/SS or some of the others flirting with Aluula start producing with it, which might not be far off.
So
A-Roam 12m : 2.17kg vs Ultra Team 12m: 2.39kg
A-Roam 9m: 1.76kg vs Ultra Team 9m : 1.98kgs
Yes there's ~200g there, bit over half a can of coke, but having flown both quite a bit I'm of the opinion that the OR doesn't have quite the same sorted and eager feeling in the sky as the Airush, and therefore those 2 extra struts aren't helping performance in any meaningful way. Add another kilo, sure, there would be a huge difference. I also have a 9m mono and agree with your feelings on it. But when weights are ballpark then all the other factors have an influence - flying characteristics across whole wind range and window, durability, cost, etc I don't boost on a foil yet so I can't compare those factors.
Weight is only really critical in super light wind, which this discussion isn't really about (personally I'm done with sub 8kt kiting, too much hassle too little payoff, winds too variable). I own a 10m foil kite (PLKB U/L Nova) which weighs in at 1.48kgs. Previously I had a 13m Peak 4 which weighs 1.64kgs. Does that make one of those the best if weight is king? Well, at staying in the air when it lulls to 3kts, you need "sail area vs weight" ratio, full stop. Peak first, Twin skin foil 2nd, inflatable a very distant 3rd. However there's more to light wind kiting than that, and for me I have more fun with the responsiveness of inflatables even though they are much heavier.
While the Roams are a great kite, light on the bar and in the sky, I still think a/ they could fly just a little better in some situations and b/ they could shed another 200g by dropping the 2 unneccessary struts. And unless OR gets ahead of these 2 factors, their first mover advantage with Aluula will be eaten away any day now when someone comes along with a 1.5kg 9m single strut aluula (or equiv) inflatable. Anyway just my 2c.
I am focussing on light wind performance here as I mentioned, because an ultra light weight kite has less benefit the stronger the wind becomes. It really does not make sense to not focus on the area of greatest benefit for these kites, which is sub 10 kt conditions.
How does the wind range of the ultra or peak , compare with the roam? I would expect a lower top end based on 1 strutt design.
Select to expand quoteYes there's ~200g there, bit over half a can of coke, but having flown both quite a bit I'm of the opinion that the OR doesn't have quite the same sorted and eager feeling in the sky as the Airush, and therefore those 2 extra struts aren't helping performance in any meaningful way. Add another kilo, sure, there would be a huge difference. I also have a 9m mono and agree with your feelings on it. But when weights are ballpark then all the other factors have an influence - flying characteristics across whole wind range and window, durability, cost, etc I don't boost on a foil yet so I can't compare those factors.
Absolutely spot on! So much more important than just comparing stats on data sheets.
Select to expand quotedachopper said..
I am focussing on light wind performance here as I mentioned, because an ultra light weight kite has less benefit the stronger the wind becomes. It really does not make sense to not focus on the area of greatest benefit for these kites, which is sub 10 kt conditions.
How does the wind range of the ultra or peak , compare with the roam? I would expect a lower top end based on 1 strutt design.
So you'll be getting yourself a foil kite for light wind then? Peter Lynn Nova ultra is about 1.7kg for a 12m and will get you out in much lighter wind than your 12m Roam (10m Nova will have probably slightly better lowend than 12m Roam?) . Relaunch will be much better at the low end too. Half the price. Won't turn anywhere near as nicely but if low wind is what you are after, you will struggle to beat a foil kite. There are even cheaper small brand foil kites out there too - if you feel brave.
The Airush ultra has a surprisingly reasonable top end. The design is relatively high aspect for a surf kite so it sits that much further forwards and the special kevlar strips in the canopy help too. The pulleys in the bridle (not on the 9m team) help to get that top end. It just gets a bit rough at the very top - starts to flutter - but the low to mid range is great. It won't be as good as the Roam. which I've been really impressed with the usable range of the ones I've seen on the water. The ultra will boost higher on a twin tip though.
I've been impressed with the peak high end. I've been comfortable on a 4m peak in 25 knots - but wouldn't have wanted any higher as it pulled pretty hard. I couldn't get the low end to work for me though. 4m peak needed at least 16knots where as I've heard others using that size down to 12 knots. Its a hydrofoil only kite though. Surfboard at a push.
Is that a misprint about the peaks? Select to expand quoteweebitbreezy said..dachopper said..
I am focussing on light wind performance here as I mentioned, because an ultra light weight kite has less benefit the stronger the wind becomes. It really does not make sense to not focus on the area of greatest benefit for these kites, which is sub 10 kt conditions.
How does the wind range of the ultra or peak , compare with the roam? I would expect a lower top end based on 1 strutt design.
So you'll be getting yourself a foil kite for light wind then? Peter Lynn Nova ultra is about 1.7kg for a 12m and will get you out in much lighter wind than your 12m Roam (10m Nova will have probably slightly better lowend than 12m Roam?) . Relaunch will be much better at the low end too. Half the price. Won't turn anywhere near as nicely but if low wind is what you are after, you will struggle to beat a foil kite. There are even cheaper small brand foil kites out there too - if you feel brave.
The Airush ultra has a surprisingly reasonable top end. The design is relatively high aspect for a surf kite so it sits that much further forwards and the special kevlar strips in the canopy help too. The pulleys in the bridle (not on the 9m team) help to get that top end. It just gets a bit rough at the very top - starts to flutter - but the low to mid range is great. It won't be as good as the Roam. which I've been really impressed with the usable range of the ones I've seen on the water. The ultra will boost higher on a twin tip though.
I've been impressed with the peak high end. I've been comfortable on a 4m peak in 25 knots - but wouldn't have wanted any higher as it pulled pretty hard. I couldn't get the low end to work for me though. 4m peak needed at least 16knots where as I've heard others using that size down to 12 knots. Its a hydrofoil only kite though. Surfboard at a push.
I've got an assortment of light wind kites, the Roam 12 meter, Dyno 18 meter, and VMG2 15 and 21 meter.
In the winds that are too light to kite on the Roam 12 meter, I can only use the VMG 21 meter, or the Dyno 18.
The VMG2 15 just doesn't have the speed and grunt at the low end of the Roams operating window, and is a pain in the backside to relaunch since the crashes normally involve speeds 2 - 3 times the windspeed. I did try it several times before giving up. The vmg15m in light winds had nowhere near the power of the dyno 18. Having said that I acknowledge the VMG is a pure out and out race kite, and is useless at anything but upwind / downwind racing.
The dyno was a PITA to keep in the sky compared with the Roam.
If I'm worried about re-launching then for me based on the kitemares I've had, the Roam wins hands down. I have already had to scamper up a rock breakwall with the 15 VMG refusing to relaunch, and that was not fun at all. Given the winds are so light where I am, I could have gone with the 14 Roam, but I was thinking later on to get one of the new larger flights ( Around 15 ish ) size for this purpose. I think that will cover down to the same as the 21 VMG, and unlike the roam, should be a good jumper also.
Select to expand quotedachopper said..
Is that a misprint about the peaks?
No. But it might look high because of the way I get my weather data (weather station in a pole about 10m high - rather than anemometer in my hand) which tends to reflect conditions at the kite rather than ground level.
You need good skills to fly those race kites without problems. I guess that's why the freeride foils like the Chrono/Sonic etc are popular as they are much more user friendly and the freeride hydrofoil kites have the benefit of being so fat that you get a lot longer to get the kite back in the air if it ends up in the water.
I'm personally excited about the technologies Ocean Rodeo have access to and the performance improvements, I just wish I could afford them. I can see stiff canopy offering a level of control that potentially beats the race kites - though whether its financially viable to build and sell them is a different question. I personally think it will still be a couple of years before Graflyt makes it to kites - unless Aluula can scale up production really quickly. Its a perfect fit for wings (which regularly get eaten by foil wings) and wingfoiling is the emerging market so you would imagine that wings would get the majority of the material.
I can't wait for Slingshot to bring out UFO's using Aluula Graflyte and Aeris-X. He He
Meanwhile a new lighter version of Aluula appears that is apparently suitable for both canopy and frame.
aluula.com/aluula-composites-inc-announces-second-quarter-results/
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2416062
I would happily sacrifice weight for more reasonable price, resistance to bagging, and resistance to foil tears.
Yeah, Ocean Rodeo did say it was now possible to build a 1kg kite recently
... :)
Setting the bar very high!
