Select to expand quoteeppo said..
I had been using a flying objects seat harness so I thought for five years or so, loved it, was getting old and tired.
Drove up to Westoz yesterday and Jason pointed out that my old harness was a waist harness with a seat attachment. Silly me hey. So put on the new flying objects waist harness with seat attachment and presto. I had been using over the past month an actual flight control seat harness, a waist ion harness and an ion shorts thingy and they just didn't feel right. Cutting into my hips or the bottom of my ribs on the shorts.
So the waist harness with a seat attachment is perfect. The flying objects baby fits like a glove.
Hey I tried on one of those north spew coloured waist with leg, seat attachment harnesses saffer mentioned. That to felt really nice for the record.
been riding the same rig (flying objects combo) for the last 2 years , tried a heap of waist harness and copped lower back pain after long sessions on every one ... back in the flying objects combo again .. will most likely just get the new 2014 one to replace this worn out one !
Darren from AKS also sorted me out with an Ion Apex for me recently - was quite expensive compared to previous harnesses I've owned but wow - it's worth every penny. Really firm and supportive, but has 2 great qualities from my perspective - I can adjust it easily on the water (literally whilst kiting mid tack) and I can wear it loose and the bar/pad doesn't ride up or twist. I ride a surfboard a lot and like my harness to twist around when I'm toe side, yet the bar never digs into my ribs. Highly recommended.
Select to expand quoteMeat said..eppo said..
I had been using a flying objects seat harness so I thought for five years or so, loved it, was getting old and tired.
Drove up to Westoz yesterday and Jason pointed out that my old harness was a waist harness with a seat attachment. Silly me hey. So put on the new flying objects waist harness with seat attachment and presto. I had been using over the past month an actual flight control seat harness, a waist ion harness and an ion shorts thingy and they just didn't feel right. Cutting into my hips or the bottom of my ribs on the shorts.
So the waist harness with a seat attachment is perfect. The flying objects baby fits like a glove.
Hey I tried on one of those north spew coloured waist with leg, seat attachment harnesses saffer mentioned. That to felt really nice for the record.
been riding the same rig (flying objects combo) for the last 2 years , tried a heap of waist harness and copped lower back pain after long sessions on every one ... back in the flying objects combo again .. will most likely just get the new 2014 one to replace this worn out one !
Beauty with this harness is if I'm doing a boost session I get in the seat, but if I'm on flat water or in the waves I just wear it as a waist harness. Kind of best of both worlds.
What year is the apex I have a 2013.and find it hard as to adjust I also have the 2012 model and found thatgood for adjustment it had like a clamp you squeeze and worked well
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Actually I'd say a wait harness and its higher pull would lead to the poo stance for a newbie more than seat harness. If it is pulling lower it pulls out the hips rather than the chest which is indeed the poo stance in motion.
Eppo, personally I didn't find it an issue either...But was told by instructors and kiter's more experienced than I that the seat encourages "bad riding posture" aka pooh stance. Hey most of us learned on a seat and we're all kiting well enough now, so wear what suits you best.
It's ironic, when I windsurfed most riders preferred a seat harness or at least a 50/50 split with waist harness use. I rarely used a seat then and preferred a waist harness. Now that I'm kiting, the seat seems to make more sense in terms of comfort and control (more leverage/lower center of gravity, especially on a surfboard or using a kite at the top of its range).
Dakine Tabu waist harness is the go for me(jumping everything), comfy & very durable. Having the harness now for 7years, it is time for an upgrade. bought the ion vertex, but this one gave me a lot of back pain. Try the Dakine Renegade next.
Cheers
Eppo, personally I didn't find it an issue either...But was told by instructors and kiter's more experienced than I that the seat encourages "bad riding posture" aka pooh stance
A pull from the hips (lower down) surely will pull your hips forward, your shoulders back and straighten your legs. A pull from higher up will pull your body forward, your hips back and with bend your legs (from a beginners perspective I mean)...I think your instructors are having you on
Eppo, I think it's because you tend to sit down against the seat harness to handle power, rather than edging the board harder. You're actually resisting the pull of the kite with your hips, so you push them out and... pooh. That's what I noticed going from seat to waist...
I've had Dakine Fusions, replaced yearly since 2010 and they've varied in comfort... 2013 is comfy once it's broken in. I didn't know the 14 was out yet.
Also have a Renegade, which is quite comfy but I'm still getting used to it riding up etc - waist attributes. I've found that not wearing a t-shirt over the wetsuit, or any thing under the suit, makes sure it stays in place a lot better.
Better work out for the abs 
and my back never hurts with it... which was why I got a seat in the first place - had a microdiscectomy in 2006.
Also have an OR Session II in the cupboard... but I need to lose more weight 
My understanding of the poo stance is hips drawn back, legs bent and upper body forward...maybe I have my definition wrong?
nahSelect to expand quoteeppo said..
My understanding of the poo stance is hips drawn back, legs bent and upper body forward...maybe I have my definition wrong?
nah you're right eppo
just got to think like a newb though - instead of straightening back leg to control edge, and pelvis out as you are describing due to lift through harness, they keep crouched over board and fight against the seat harness which is trying to straighten them out (because they don't know how to edge, when they straighten they pearl straight over front rail etc). kind of like squatting their centre of gravity over the board.
had a mate on seats for the past year and style was *cough* an issue *cough* but since going to waist he has learnt to lean back against the kite a lot better... you know who you are che... haha
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Cool makes sense now
Hmmmmmmm The penny's dropped
Push them out, draw them back - same thing 
poking the ass out like you're sitting on the crapper and trying not to **** on your shoes.
As I got better, I found it harder and harder to edge and hold a stance properly with a seat harness, even though I know how to do it properly.
Oddly enough, my back has no problems with the waist harness, even boosting. Find I need less power in the kite too, and can change to a smaller kite sooner.
Seriously Guys - this is like asking what size shoe is best & most comfortable.
We see it all the time in the shop.
The same harness that was just rejected as 'awful' by one customer will be the most comfortable of them all for the next.
Its all about the cut & the padding & how it 'fits' with your own body shape.
Get out & try them all till you find one that feels like a comfy slipper.
Without doubt THAT ONE is the best harness ever made.
I have a 2013 Dakine Renegade, cos they are one of the few in XXL and the shop that responded to email only had Dakine...
It's comfy enough, when it stays in place :D
Got myself a Warrior III yesterday, besides for the kite knife falling out and sinking in the ocean within the first few seconds it's a lot more comfortable than my Naish waist one, no need to constantly pull down the spreader bar and no more getting pulled by the ribs.
mystic warrior III and dyna bar
****
although, after 2 seasons the velcro won't stick for the whole session (would have given 5 stars if velcro worked) - and no haven't a fat guts....
does anyone have this velcro problem, fix ? its relatively clean - could shake some more sand out and give it a comb to scuff it up a bit
doesn't really bother me as I like to ride it loose
out of interest what do they cost now ?
mf
I have been using a Mystic Majestic 2013 for about a year and think it is great. Comfortable, good back support, padding and memory foam and very easy to put on. The spreader bar is firm and doesn't twist up. It has a line knife tucked on the lower site of the spreader bar support (in front).
I used a Cabrinha waist harness before that but its spreader bar used to twist up a lot.
I learnt with a Dakine Fusion seat harness and thought it was really good to use, but not for any toeside riding.
