old school kiter from day dot , and i mean day dot... think before chicken loops!
My go to kite for nearly 10 years yes 10 years , shops hate me ! and I dont buy into the constant BS of upgrading, if you dont crash your kites and look after them they last for ages , well at least mine has, new lines and bladders at the half way mark, but now connector tubes are failing , kite is has lost is 'crisp'....lines are looking old again... its time :(
So what was this beast? ... Fone Bandit 11m ... did everything i needed and could ask of it , ...build quality was good and so was flying ..landing was probably the only thing i haven't liked as it liked to fly back up always ... which also was a positive when re launching in the water ... it very rarely ever fell out of the sky, always seem to sit nicely in power and had a massive de-power range it was what they called 'Delta C ' in its day ....13-23knts ...is what i used it in but ideal was 13-18knts...flat water and down winders in the surf .
I like to 'feel' the kite with good bar pressure ....hooked in always , I don't do any of the wake style stuff more free riding , small waves, jumps. I like the simple cleat style trim of the Bandit bar and its simple operation also. Prior to this kite i was on simple 4 line C kites , the Bandit i had set up always as 4 lines , never did the 5th line option.
So if you were me ....85-90kg , what would you get ? One kite do all! ( i don't kite in strong winds any more, so need for a small one)
I'm thinking Naish Pivot, North Neo or maybe a Bandit again? ....11 or even a 10m ... so many brands , so many models !!
keen to get some thoughts ....cheers
I'd go with something that has a few feel choices. I know ozone enduro has 3 feel settings. Im sure others brands do too.
Do yourself a Favour and Demo the Core Nexus Kites
The kite has 3 setting like the Enduro but works differently to the Enduro. You change the front connections point on the leading edge rather than at the centre of the leading edge
Surf Allround and Freestyle
The bar pressure is good maybe a little higher than some
I like a kite with Pulley/Sliders as I feel it gives better bar response as the leading edge is always evenly loaded
With a fixed bridle like on the Enduro sometime not all the connection point have even load and the kite can feel spongy
Just my opinion
Best advice is demo as many as you can
Don't stray from the bandit...get a new one...the 10 metre will be just right...16 to 25 knots...the 9 metre 18 to 25 knots...the 10 has a really powerful low end...that's a review on the XV model...the bandit s models are crazy good as well
Thanks ...some new ideas in there .... interesting point /observations about the bridle /pulley , i haven't had any issues with mine over the years , when reading the North Reach blurb , they were promoting no pulleys as a point of difference , selling point ? but it kind of makes sense that the lines can move /adjust as required rather than be locked in to one spot only.
Starting to think/agree its going to have to be a test/feel thing again ....Bandits don't seem to be a shop/retailer favorite around here?
It 'feels' like its going to be expensive no matter what!:)
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said..
Thanks ...some new ideas in there .... interesting point /observations about the bridle /pulley , i haven't had any issues with mine over the years , when reading the North Reach blurb , they were promoting no pulleys as a point of difference , selling point ? but it kind of makes sense that the lines can move /adjust as required rather than be locked in to one spot only.
Starting to think/agree its going to have to be a test/feel thing again ....Bandits don't seem to be a shop/retailer favorite around here?
It 'feels' like its going to be expensive no matter what!:)
Many new kites have moved to pretty high bar pressure, gives the riders more stability once in the air and allows you to always know where the kite is. Which can be too high for recreational riders, great for high performnance team riders.
Manufacturers removed the bridle in some models, gives the kite a much quicker response to bar input and more direct feeling of control, its been around for a while now and works really well.
I dont have any affliation with North but after riding Ozone, naish and f one the reach was the most fun and easiest to fly...can boost big loops dont worry about that.
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said..
Thanks ...some new ideas in there .... interesting point /observations about the bridle /pulley , i haven't had any issues with mine over the years , when reading the North Reach blurb , they were promoting no pulleys as a point of difference , selling point ? but it kind of makes sense that the lines can move /adjust as required rather than be locked in to one spot only.
Starting to think/agree its going to have to be a test/feel thing again ....Bandits don't seem to be a shop/retailer favorite around here?
It 'feels' like its going to be expensive no matter what!:)
Many new kites have moved to pretty high bar pressure, gives the riders more stability once in the air and allows you to always know where the kite is. Which can be too high for recreational riders, great for high performnance team riders.
Manufacturers removed the bridle in some models, gives the kite a much quicker response to bar input and more direct feeling of control, its been around for a while now and works really well.
I dont have any affliation with North but after riding Ozone, naish and f one the reach was the most fun and easiest to fly...can boost big loops dont worry about that.
Check out The kite mag ultimate test guide.
If you don't like buying into marketing hype try a Switch.
Massive sale on at the mo, less than a grand a kite. I had my 8m Nitro out in 30 knots yesterday, it still boosts!!!!
No problems with longevity, I have a whole quiver and some have been going for over 5 years.
Select to expand quoteIanR said..
Do yourself a Favour and Demo the Core Nexus Kites
The kite has 3 setting like the Enduro but works differently to the Enduro. You change the front connections point on the leading edge rather than at the centre of the leading edge
Surf Allround and Freestyle
The bar pressure is good maybe a little higher than some
I like a kite with Pulley/Sliders as I feel it gives better bar response as the leading edge is always evenly loaded
With a fixed bridle like on the Enduro sometime not all the connection point have even load and the kite can feel spongy
Just my opinion
Best advice is demo as many as you can
Have you mixed your bridled/pulley statements up?
The normal advantages of a fixed bridle are that you remove the spongy feel and get a sharper response because of the fact that there are no moving parts that need to adjust before the steering forces are applied (think how the tip of the kite bends to apply the steering forces and it makes sense).
The normal advantage of a pulley bridle is that you can have a greater sheeting range (more depower ) because the tow point can adjust over a wider range and still support the shape of the kite. Effectively - you can hold a bigger kite for longer.
If its gusty, a bridled kite may feel smoother because the pulleys will smooth out the fluctuations in power that you feel at the bar - whereas you may feel every small gust on a fixed bridle (depending on how its tuned of course).
My experience is that different brands tend to have a common bar feel rather than it being a factor of pulley vs fixed bridle. Core kites all feel similar from year to year and F-one kites feel similar and so on.
Its fun to demo new kites though.
I would second the North Reach or Carve. Excellent design and build quality. Been on North for a few years now and they're hard to beat.
Select to expand quoteweebitbreezy said..
Have you mixed your bridled/pulley statements up?
The normal advantages of a fixed bridle are that you remove the spongy feel and get a sharper response because of the fact that there are no moving parts that need to adjust before the steering forces are applied (think how the tip of the kite bends to apply the steering forces and it makes sense).
The normal advantage of a pulley bridle is that you can have a greater sheeting range (more depower ) because the tow point can adjust over a wider range and still support the shape of the kite. Effectively - you can hold a bigger kite for longer.
If its gusty, a bridled kite may feel smoother because the pulleys will smooth out the fluctuations in power that you feel at the bar - whereas you may feel every small gust on a fixed bridle (depending on how its tuned of course).
My experience is that different brands tend to have a common bar feel rather than it being a factor of pulley vs fixed bridle. Core kites all feel similar from year to year and F-one kites feel similar and so on.
Its fun to demo new kites though.
No I stand by my statement
Nothing needs to just before or after the you apply steering force. Its a pulley its moves constantly as the forces change and it avoids point loading of the bridle connection to the leading edge The pulleys only move a very small distance
I agree there is a greater sheeting range but this does not lead to more depower. For me it means I have to be little less precise with the bar to attain optimal power. I fine with fixed bridled I find I go for nicely power to completely depowered with in a couple centimetre movement. With a pulleyed kite it takes a couple of inches
I also find it to easy to oversheet(pull in to hard on the back lines) Its just way more obvious for me with a kite with pulleys
It really comes down to what your use to and what you like
That's why demoing is so much fun
I mixed up bridle / pulley names.
manufacturers were removing pulleys ! Not bridles
Mate everyone is different and will recommend a kite that they fly, because it's what they're used to and what they like.
If you can demo - then get on as many as you can and find what suits you. Borrow your mates kites and see if you gel with it.
Most brands have a 'feel' that will go through the range. Then find the one in the range that suits you.
Try a few because anything will feel good after flying a kite that's 10 years old
Cheers ,,, demo is the answer , definitely some different brands and models in this listhihadnt considered , thanks all.
look forward to feeling the difference a decade makes and spending some more time on the kite ,
Mac Kiteboarding did a 5 best all-rounder kites.
(33) 5 Best Do-it-All Kites - YouTube
It is 2 years old, but probably still stands up.
I ride Bandit XII and Bandit XV in 4 sizes, they're both good all rounders. They aren't full on big air kites but I think you only get that with 5 struts so I just pump to much higher pressure at 25kn+. I couple mine with both the F-One Linx bar and the Duotone Clickbar, the latter is better at 25+kn. I'm on the lower end of your weight range.
I'm told the F-One distribution set up in Australia doesn't offer enough margin to retailers relative to other brands that's probably why they're harder to find but there's plenty of instructors around who are resellers. My reliability experience has been good so I haven't found the availability an issue but it's something I'd factor in if I were renewing my fleet.
Select to expand quoteIanR said..
Do yourself a Favour and Demo the Core Nexus Kites
The kite has 3 setting like the Enduro but works differently to the Enduro. You change the front connections point on the leading edge rather than at the centre of the leading edge
Surf Allround and Freestyle
The bar pressure is good maybe a little higher than some
I like a kite with Pulley/Sliders as I feel it gives better bar response as the leading edge is always evenly loaded
With a fixed bridle like on the Enduro sometime not all the connection point have even load and the kite can feel spongy
Just my opinion
Best advice is demo as many as you can
Good call love mine...tried allot of kites.
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said..
old school kiter from day dot , and i mean day dot... think before chicken loops!
My go to kite for nearly 10 years yes 10 years , shops hate me ! and I dont buy into the constant BS of upgrading, if you dont crash your kites and look after them they last for ages , well at least mine has, new lines and bladders at the half way mark, but now connector tubes are failing , kite is has lost is 'crisp'....lines are looking old again... its time :(
So what was this beast? ... Fone Bandit 11m ... did everything i needed and could ask of it , ...build quality was good and so was flying ..landing was probably the only thing i haven't liked as it liked to fly back up always ... which also was a positive when re launching in the water ... it very rarely ever fell out of the sky, always seem to sit nicely in power and had a massive de-power range it was what they called 'Delta C ' in its day ....13-23knts ...is what i used it in but ideal was 13-18knts...flat water and down winders in the surf .
I like to 'feel' the kite with good bar pressure ....hooked in always , I don't do any of the wake style stuff more free riding , small waves, jumps. I like the simple cleat style trim of the Bandit bar and its simple operation also. Prior to this kite i was on simple 4 line C kites , the Bandit i had set up always as 4 lines , never did the 5th line option.
So if you were me ....85-90kg , what would you get ? One kite do all! ( i don't kite in strong winds any more, so need for a small one)
I'm thinking Naish Pivot, North Neo or maybe a Bandit again? ....11 or even a 10m ... so many brands , so many models !!
keen to get some thoughts ....cheers
I'd suggest the new Ozone Enduro V4, completely new design, best Enduro so far. The 11m is probably a good size for you, I'm 75kg and a 10m gets a lot of use for me on the East Coast, I'm based in Lennox Head. I also have the 14m and the pair overlap nicely.
Please give me a call it you want to know more 0433323299
I just added a 2023 North Orbit 10m to my quiver, surprisingly good relative to the Bandit XII 10m as an all rounder but it loops better and, as expected, is super stable at height when overpowered. Lofty, it gives softer landings after loops than the Bandit even when there's not enough room for a slow down heli. What I am pleasantly surprised by is the freeride side of it, more all rounder than I expected. Settings - I'm at least 15kg lighter than Marc Jacobs and find his tuning heavy on the bar so I've lightened it up ahead of a session this arvo.
To get ahead of the comment - Pin Puller bring an 8m and 9m XR down next time, I think I'm ready to give them a whirl.
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said..
Cheers ,,, demo is the answer , definitely some different brands and models in this listhihadnt considered , thanks all.
look forward to feeling the difference a decade makes and spending some more time on the kite ,
If you need a light wind kite- you need to try out something in the allula range.
Decimates the competition.
