Francoise Papon from France, sent me these plans of the Class 5 Sports.
Mr. Landyacht introduced me Christopher Roger, who was interested in spreading this plans in order to be able to have more competition in the future.
( apparently they need more class 5 sport pilots and landyachts.)
I really want to build it, but the plans are missing lots of information ( angles, measures etc.)
I am trying to figure out how to explain francoise in a mix between english, spanish and some loose french words about more details needed.
juan enrique
Side View
View from Above.
I think the cost of these rockets has killed them. that aluminium is 100Euros a metre, the rear wheels 400euros each, special stub axles, carbon fibre for the seat..............................
Building these yachts has not helped the class, hence the idea of the PROMO
. I would hate for you guys to end up dependant on Europe for all your materials. we in Australia dont have the materials that the new promo rules specify so we just use the next best thing.
If we turn up to sail in Europe ,or anywhere that Fisly rules are being strictly adhered to we may have a problem if the Fisly measurers want to stick ridgidly to the specs.
sorry I cant give a more encouraging reply.
they were not as fast as the Plumes in Rada Tilly either
I know all that, for us is very diffcult too to be able to find the right material.
as an example we have only 3 aluminum mast, all the rest are windsurfing masts.
we want to build this class 5 sport chassis on regulars pipes and with bike or motorcycle wheels, no carbon fibers only regular fiberglass for the cockpit.
You have seen the sails we are using, the dacron sails are far away from our budgets. maybe some day fisly will accept windsurf masts, who knows.
in the mean time, the whole purpose os this is to have fun, and if possible to get more people involved in this activity.
regards
juan enrique
Well in that case!
The MC wheel that Ive seen in your photos would be Ideal I would start by downloading the best /biggest image you can then blow it up at a printers an the work from there.. set your rear wheels at 10 degrees for the first yacht. in a later form you may want to lay the them to 12,or 15degrees.. you know the length/width and the angles viewed from above by measuring from your blown up plans. I would suggest leaving out that shock absorber front end , it would really only be neccesary on a rough Eurobeach.
. perhaps substitute your front end off your present PM/promos.
for a first seat why not try one from wire mesh or even one of those stretchers slung undeneath?
I pulled your drawings off the computer and put a few notes , meaured a few angles and drew a couple of sketches , managed 1 translation, I think you will need a good rear view to work on. the photo you have shows that you need to keep the whole rear half of the chassis as flat as possible at all times when designing it. I would suggest building a mock chassis out of seel scraps the same diameter as the final steel. then when you have all the angles right build a jig around it.
I would try the first yacht with a 8" wheelbarrow whel if you cant get a good 20" alloy wheel.
Enjoy , Paul
I found that the cost of building one of these yachts no more difficult or expensive that any other class5 that is built from scratch(if you had to built seat -frame) the biggest draw back are the 26"wheels, If you had to purchase custom wheels they are expensive but if you have a go at making your own they are quite cheap and easy to make , The yachts may not be in the same class as the custom built yachts but still perform well, aus230 is built from off the shelf aluminum and nq drill tube nothing fancy.
Cheers
aus230
My experience is the same if you compare apples with apples and disregard the exotic
matierials some of the front runners overseas are built from the matierials are similar as any other landyacht
My class 5 weighs 60KG my mini weighs around 38KG and would be a fair representation of the matierial cost difference IMHO
I was wondering about that. As soon as things thaw out here, I'll figure out how much the Rocket weighs. Anyone else want to volunteer the weight of their Class 5? I'm thinking of putting together and posting a spreadsheet of all the critical weights and measures of know Class 5s. Since making them isn't big business I doubt any one is going to freak out about details being known. If this has already been done, please let me know and I'll just add to it.
I have now discovered the other 8 pages of the forum 
. There have really been some great discussions. I'm surprised the British and Europeans haven't joined in. (I saw a few Brits) The FISLY forum hasn't really caught on and the NALSA one isn't really a forum.
Blake
aus230 weighs 56k with the NZ sail (windward) and 59k with English sail(R&J)fully rigged
cheers
aus230
Vic,
The sail makes a lot more difference in weight than I would imagine..battens or fabric or both?
Just curious, how did you get a sail ordered from England to match your mast curve? It is an issue I run into with no nearby sail makers.
Blake
Hi Blake (happy NEW Year by the way)
The R&J sail has much heaver battens and the material is thicker than the winward sail.They where both ordered to fit a yorker mast which Bill Naine from NZ (rocket builder)gave me the design for. I would have brought an aus sail but at the time I did not know where to get one, as it turns out the overseas sails where cheaper than the aus sails (postage is now a problem as the cost has got ridiculous)
R&J wanted to know what type of mast, what type of yacht, the weight,my weight, the surface it would be sailed on and the average wind speed of the area.(this is where I stuffed up a bit, I said around 15k ph and at and below that wind speed the yacht is very fast but above that it is a bit of a hand full.) http://www.rjsails.co.uk/dinghy__land_yacht_sails.html
cheers
vic
Happy New Year to you too! (still the First here)
Sounds like you ended up with a really powerful sail...good for the beach? Is the salt really hard and low rolling resistance like a regular dirt dry lake?
My Windward sail is off in California being recut to match my Rocket's mast bend, not sure why it didn't originally match and shipping it back to NZ was not an option. Fortunately I tried a friend's Sea Gull Promo sail on and it fit perfectly. They are recutting the luff to match that sail. (and that mast bend is one all the Europeans know, so I suppose I could buy a French sail.)
I talked with R&J a few years ago, but they wanted a young fortune for a sail for my Fed 5, with the postage added on top, seems like it was going to be over $1000.
my 5 comes in at 53kg with the steel rims and 51 with the plastic rims. my argentinian sail is quite heavy cloth but the foot is short so i lose 300gms on a shorter boom. I also tend to run a heavier tyre on rougher surfaces as my wallet isnt up to a daily tyre change
In my speedway days unsprung weight was more important than overall weight, I should imagine it would be the same with land yachts, anyone have any experience in this area
cheers
aus230
Pretty hard to do much of analysis on what the sprung weight is given that the whole chassis/frame is part of the system?
I do know in my own mind that a 5 of less than 50kg does not work very well, but Clem will respond to this with an opposite view!
My understanding of unsprung weight is the wheel weight. In speedway we tried to keep anything that turned to as least weight as safe/possible as that is what required the use power to turn.(I guess that is why tire pressure is important to, if the Tyre pressure is to low it requires more power to turn)
cheers
aus230
Here we go again! He says as it raises it's Uggly Head!!!!
Could I dare say that in the case of Land Yachts with out some form of Independent Suspension that Un-sprung Weight is from the Axles out ie. Just the revolving part of the wheel. Being as the Axles are and Axle Carriers are Part of the Beams which are seen as "The Axle" are all part of the suspension unit, unlike normal modes of transport which have a myriad of Bits and pieces connected and indirectly connected to the Springs out side the Chassis and vehicle body. Consider the Body and Chassis to be one and the same with Coil or Leaf Spring Suspension one could say that anything connected in addition/Outside this part of the System could then be considered to be suspension or as Effecting the operation or adding to the weight the Suspension. Therefore anything not affixed to the Chassis is Classified as Un-sprung weight which we try to reduce so that the Wheels are forced more quickly back to the ground surface in an attempt to remove any Power Transfer loss between the wheels and the surface. If we could have un-sprung suspension that weighed ZERO then the Power Transfer would be close to zero. This is as we know impossible. However with Land Yacht design we do not have a normal suspension just a simple suspension system which incorporates the entire Axle which presses down on the un-suspended wheel.
Therefore it is I would say just the Rolling part of the wheel is Un-Sprung weight as the entirety of the Axle and Land Yacht Body is Suspended
Ron
Hi Clem.
You have mentioned sand in your yacht before. Where do you place it?
As for unsprung weight on a land yacht, I would have thought it would only apply to the wheels, But that is only my understanding.
Cheers
aus230
But that is only my understanding.
If i needed more weight(yeah right - as if) i would try diving weight belt, that way i would still be able to transfer weight around by body movement which would more advantageous than static weight in one place
I couldn't imagine too much movement at all with a 20+Kg weight belt on maybe I need to go workout 
You dont have to move too much but anytime you start to lift a wheel, sliding your weight to windward allows you sheet in harder.
Now a couple of weekends ago I won my first race after 3+ years of sailing because with the wind so strong no one else was able to stay on 3 wheels. Only by physically forcing my body windward was I able to drop my windward wheel and aerobrake my yacht to turn the final mark and race home.
If any added weight is needed static is no good it should be movable.
Now there is an interesting term aerobrake Please explain.
Anyway what is this about added bulk?? Test Pilot you have 25/30kgs over me and you are talking more weight??? Out of curiosity what is the sail area of LY/class 5 in your Avatar?? AUS230 what is your sail area??
Ron
aero braking is when you break traction in all 3 wheels and drift fast enough sideways that the sail inverts and pushes you onto the next tack without losing speed,
drift driving in landyachts
works best on wet tarmac and walyungup gravel, but can go wrong and turn you into a roadblock
Oh! I thought that was just a Power Slide. I haven't quite made it to the Inverted Sail Bit but the rest well just about. Those Air Trac Tires are a bit gripy and turn you quickly anyway. It is good to know that, Logical when you think about it on wet Tarmac, I guess Wet Clay would be a bit like trying to sail a Land Yacht on Ice only messier
Ron
Now that I find Odd. I would have thought that Ice would have been of minimal friction to Them Little Black Doughnuts. But High Sideways Friction to Ice yachts.
Ron
