This is the sail I cut and put together how I thought it should be.
It was a 5.5m sail before I cut it.
What size do you think it is now?
All measurements are in inches converted to mm. I gave all the dimensions so you can have a detailed view of the profile. All measurements of luff and leech were measured on the curvatures, not in straight lines.
Do you think it might be too small for a "Moto" sail for off roading, maybe some short track dirt racing? I have an average wind speed here of 21mph=33.79kmp. If you look at the image I posted of where I will do most of my sailing you can tell why I started with the chassis and now am moving on to the sail.
I need a sail with the most bottom end for launching out of turns and as light as I can get it.
You guys probably think I'm nuts! But I gotta give it a go. Not much flat open land near me sooooooo! "Let's Moto"
Select to expand quoteTest pilot 1 said..
What happened to the rest of the mast pocket?
I must need it if you're asking. So I guess I'll sew it on. Should it come all the way down to the foot?
There was only two inches more of it covering the mast and I cut way more than two inches of the bottom of the sail so I just left it off. I guess I can sew a base strap to the foot to act as a false pocket. and then tie a rope from the downhaul around the mast.
Why do you need to measure the size? It doesnt matter what size the sail is as long as it works...
There are actually several different ways of measuring the sail area and will all give slightly different results... this is one of the major reason that the International Mini 5.6 has NO sail size restrictions. MUCH simpler.
(You will understand the problems of sail measuring when ALL sails need to be measured prior to a championship and how angry people get if their sail is slightly over..... the thing is they knew it prior to measuring and just wanted to slip it through and cheat a little)
Low end grunt of a rig is created by the 'fullness' of the sail and this is a mast / sail match thing rather than size.
Select to expand quoteGizmo said..
Why do you need to measure the size? It doesnt matter what size the sail is as long as it works...
There are actually several different ways of measuring the sail area and will all give slightly different results... this is one of the major reason that the International Mini 5.6 has NO sail size restrictions. MUCH simpler.
(You will understand the problems of sail measuring when ALL sails need to be measured prior to a championship and how angry people get if their sail is slightly over..... the thing is they knew it prior to measuring and just wanted to slip it through and cheat a little)
Low end grunt of a rig is created by the 'fullness' of the sail and this is a mast / sail match thing rather than size.
If its not enough then I don't want to end up getting on that's the same or smaller. If it' too much I don't want to get one's that's the same or bigger. Should I just get a mess of them and try them all?
Coming down to the final stages of chassis design and have started working on some windsurf sails and rigging.
As per Vic, I added an adjustable clew setup. Still no mast yet but I did pick up some steel today and will mock up axles and steering.
This is the lateset rendition. I was highly influenced by Oldmxer's designs. I have worked out all the geo and dims. Will start taking pics this weekend.
Shown with a Sailworks revolution 3.8 Pro. For hard pan dirt circle track near my house and some asphalt running.
Try not to use a bent boom..... they rotate along the 'green line' this will mean you won't be able to sheet in hard and will limit your upwind performance.
My suggestion is remove the bottom batten, use a straight boom and if the sail flops from side to side over the boom as you tack, so be it.
Also centre sheeting of the boom takes more pulleys to achieve the same 'pull' as end of the boom sheeting.
Keep the centre pulley mounting away from the crown jewels.... Just in case of a sudden stop 
Okay got it Gizmo,
Should I connect the rear block all the way to the end of the boom and add blocks to what I am calling my "Spare rigging point at the back of the yacht?
Like this?
The boom doesn't need to be any longer than 4-6" past the end of the sail, any longer you are just adding to the length of sheet rope you will require.
Change your pulley placement to give the front of the boom some 'downhaul'...VERY inportant in land yacht rigs.
Reduce the weight and complexity of the yacht...... you will use up the worlds steel supply
A yacht souldn't be complex.... Keep It Simple !!!!! Weight is ONLY good for steam rollers.
It's easy to build things in CAD but in real life.... Keep It Simple !!!!!
What you have drawn is way over the top for a Mini yacht.
Most if not all people will build another yacht within a year of starting keep this design for yacht no.2.
You know gizmo,
I could have already built a basic LLM by the the time I made all the conversions and calculations on a technical build.
I've already have nearly everything to complete a basic because I'm still waiting on parts and such.
Should I wait? Or should I go?....GO!
I had this drawing from the get go, It's a mm-decimal conversion with a 2.0" narrower track width and a 2.0" longer wheelbase.
Build cost so far $286.00.... Beer, Wheels/tires, bolts/washers, 3 sails, and a speedy stitcher.
Still need blocks, rope, and a new lens for my hood. Got a little flash the other day!
By the way, this is not C.A.D. It is simple line drawings.....All straight lines configured by my mouse inputs, that's it!
It is one step above pencil and paper, only no curves. If you zoom in on one of the images you can see it.
How does this rig look?
Doubles at the down haul and adjustable clew, with my pull coming from the line where the intended windsurf boom pulls from. Remove bottom batten!
Pleeeeeaaaaase tell me all is good, I'm ready to let sparks fly!!!
Looks good to me, What type of steering. Where the mast post is you may have to go with Clem,s style ( I found this to be the best)
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Clemco-Mini-Build/?page=3
Thanks Vic,
My mast is a lot further forward then on Clems so my mounting might end up on the back side of the mast tube. I'm going to have to figure that after the base chassis is done so I can sit in it and get the placement correct.
I am definitely going with push rod steering. Clem sure did a nice job on his set up, I like it! I will make a design drawing then post it.
My peddles are behind the mast post on the mini, another advantage of having push steering is that is easy to streamline the front (mine is thin plywood covered with light woven glass.
Answer to question in pm. Sail set at lowest point so it can still have clear vision under the boom when fully sheeted, and the boom should clear the helmet.
Vic,
I'm pretty sure I have the sail as close to the deck as possible because there us a lot of head room with that windsurf sail. I think my sail might even end covering the top of my mast tube and I know that's got to too low!
When I watched a US mini race start nobody had a windsurf sail. Good thing Saby bought those sails from Sailworks. How are those sails anyway Saby?
Oh ya, check this out!
It looks like nalsa put your rig on their logo!!!!
If that's not your rig then I must be seeing things!!!
Select to expand quote[b]KAONAONA said..[/
Good thing Saby bought those sails from Sailworks. How are those sails anyway Saby?
It is still winter here. The snow is almost gone, hopefully I can try them out in the next couple of weeks. New sails, new bearings, new tires... I should be able to reach my goal of not coming in last!
Brian
We have already had 80 degree days and hardly any rain. gonna be another dry one for sure!
Go get 'em Brian. I hope you do well. I will be there but not racing, I will bring my yacht just to mess around and have some fun......If you want someone in your pit, let me know and I'll come give you a hand.
Kaona
I think it's too late to register, but thanks for the offer, That's pretty awesome of you. It's not often that the competitor is willing to help the other guy with a rig to run in the same class. At least not with motor sports. My yacht will be done pretty soon any way, I'll just bring it for the fun of it. I'll save it for the U.S. 5.6 mini class.
Who knows you might need your other yacht for a back up.
If I were you I would have all the spare everything I could possibly haul. Blocks, rope, sails, masts, boom, wheels/tires/tubes, welder, air tank or compressor and don't forget gas....Oh wait....You wont need any.
I never go race without everything I may possibly need to keep running.
I never go race without everything I may possibly need to keep running.
So what do you do for when you run out of wind
Bring a low cell with you
Select to expand quoteTest pilot 1 said..I never go race without everything I may possibly need to keep running.
So what do you do for when you run out of wind
Bring a low cell with you
That's what beer is for.
Finally some build pics. Wheels came in today so I built the axle.
Wheels/Tires....1 spare
Axle parts. 1.50"sq axle, 1.25"sq bushing, 1.0"id steel set collar and 1.0" round bar axle shaft.
1.0" axle shaft welded inside a 3.50" long 1.250" square tube .50" from the end.
Set collar welded to axle stub, ground down and refit into axle end and welded in place.
Outside of axle. Set collar used for wheel retainer. 3.25" extra shaft to accept wider wheels or to set these wheels further out to adjust rear wheelbase.
Completed one piece axle with a 55.5" wheel base at 10 degrees tilt. I used Paul Days' instructions to set angles.
Total materials cost, less tires and wheels.....$45.60 USD
I personally don't like drop axles (but I do like beach sailing often with clumps of seaweed that will get stuck under yacht), yes the LLMini seems to be set up well with the rear axle.
So MUCH with land sailing is 'location' dependent.
I hope this rig ends up being a decent race rig because it's ending up to be a US 5.6 mini. There really is not that much different than the I 5.6 rules.
Can someone tell me what your ride heights are front and back. Are you level or is the front higher than the back?
