I was looking some of the newer mini's from Europe that have the mid sheeting with the pilot sitting way back behind the axle. My thoughts were that the further aft seating would possible increase righting moment (leverage on the axle) and make the steering a bit challenging due to the lack of weight on the front end like a Promo or 5 sq. I'm assuming that with the pilot back further the sail can be lowered closer to the ground also helping righting moment and aerodynamics due to a lower seated position. . I was wondering what others thoughts were of that type of configuration as opposed to a rear sheeting mini that places the pilot much closer to the axle?
keep in mind that on SAND you can move your weight much further back than on clay/salt bitumen etc.
with this in mind the mini yacht become a process of matching the centre of effort,centre of gravity whilst keeping just enough weight to steer with. most of the centre sheeted yachts ive seen images of seem to be adapted Class 5 sails.
note that theplume is putting the mast almost in front of the wheel.
thats telling you that the critical positions are very important. If you start down this path you ust be willing to build a few chassis's to trial and get right.
also consider that if your not using a really stiff mast wont need to centre sheet to get the sail to sit right.
alos consider where that style of yacht will be sailable.
it would be a bugger to play with on the tiny course at cherriuex last year.
i would like to see so pics of 6' pilots sailing those minis too
Paul - you've sailed against K950 in Cherriuex last year
Ok- it was the prototype in France..but the same geometry, sail (one of Svens Frog sails), mast, and weight distribution...with a 6ft+ Dave Green aboard
Those dims were transferred to K950 (the original chassis was fully adjustable, even the mast step moves). Both yachts (prototype and K950) are racing successfully on all surfaces in the UK. A lot of people think it's a cut down Class 5 but actually it's a couple of years of thinking and work, that said there is nothing that the average person that can build a yacht couldn't do themselves and afford. As for steering it was sailing in wind conditions that the CL5 and Cl3 pilots said were too dangerous at Redcar (we lost a few Standarts into the sea tacking) and it proved to be very stable (with a small bag of sand round the mast base). Martyns position when sailing it is slightly misleading with it being a 'Y' frame his hips are in about the normal position in relation to the wheels as it would be in a CL5. The centre sheeting is pure CL5 - 2 triples and a ratchet (nicked off the club yacht
) and like that because the sail and boom go straight onto Martyns CL5 as is.
Cheers Col
Bad choice of photo as Martyns using the Airtrack sail due to the strong wind conditions in that one. Doh! Col
does anyone know roughly what the dimension is from the back of the seat /cockpit area to the center line of the rear axle is on the fore mentioned yacht?
I would be curious to see a boat like this rounding the leeward mark at 50 mph plus in 25mph winds on a hard pan surface. I had some interesting moments at the last Holy Gale rounding the leeward mark at speed.
It sails regularly at Elvington Air Base which is an ex USAF base (last owners and renovators) which was intended for B29s and was one of the few European airstrips which NASA had picked for landing the space shuttle - it's big, open and concrete, with odd stretches of tarmac. Its sailed there in 25mph winds with no bother. But not always with a 5.5m2 sail.
As for dimensions, I think Dave Green would kill me if I start crawling all over his baby with a tape measure Well not until other yachts in the UK are as fast or faster
It's certainly causing a stir (both for and against) if you check out the last edition of Land Sailor - http://www.bfslyc.org.uk/pages/fed_landsailor.aspx
Cheers Col
I read that article in BFSLYC Land Sailor..... interesting but I think the author has forgotten that the International Mini5.6 Class was created to encompass virtually ALL small classes being sailed world wide and as a beginners class. By trying to limit things to narrow the class by sail size/ construction methods etc. will by its very nature exclude other yachts.
The Mini5.6 specs were set down for a period of 4 years by FISLY...... let it run its time and if any changes need to occur to anything, change it then.....
In the meantime people constantly trying to manipulating the rules for their own personal desires are undermining the class...... say your piece in 4 years.
If people want to refine something, work on class 5 and get that so it becomes the 'Race' class world wide, some of the class 5 specs virtually makes it impossible to make in some places of the world...... The mast sections seems to be the major problem.
Well, we did include x-sails and blokarts for a while but they now form the back of a field of minis, and probably will drift away again. So maybe a class within a class might help that one
Some of the comments in there might be based on the fact K950 has turned up and won everything as well.
As for UK Class 5, check out the for sale ads. Apart from 2 or 3 yachts, I think thats the whole of the UK Class 5 racing yacht fleet that have been up for sale in the last couple of issues. 50% of the yachts in Cherrieux are there. K950 had to run in a CL5 race to make the numbers
Cheers Col
Maybe it might be time to look at handicapping of yachts (purely on paper) it has been highly successful for more than 50 years, using yardsticks and calculations for water dinghy sailing.
Most sports use handicapping of some sort... Golf, Motor racing, Horse racing, Water dinghy sailing, Ocean Racing etc ..... why not Land sailing?
While the fast yachts still come over the line first the handicap system actually favors the developing sailor with constant improvement.
Select to expand quoteUS772 said..
I would be curious to see a boat like this rounding the leeward mark at 50 mph plus in 25mph winds on a hard pan surface. I had some interesting moments at the last Holy Gale rounding the leeward mark at speed.
high speed rounding on clay is a leap of faith, you basically need the rear to start drifting,then the whole yacht,and really push it into the turn.
its particularly important if coming off a fast downwind run and having to tack hard upwind.
doing a nancy turn and rounding wide will simply lose you places in races.
often when we sail at our claypan(very similar to ivanpah) we set up a mark right on the edge of a bad spot and spend the afternoon charging into it
wind was from the NE
the cluster on the left 1/3 down was an exercise in touching a small flag with your wheel. the flag was UNDER a 2m high prickle bush. the bottom cluster is the bottom turn.
to the east of the turn is an area where a puncture will happen 
I'm not used to sailing a small boat. I found I was trying to sail it fully powered at the wrong times and under sheeted at others. Swaping ends happened very fast on the bear aways. Some of my leeward roundings when it was windy were a bit edgy with the sail luffing making the boat jump around. I need more practice to improve my sailing skills.
my trick is not to let out,and push it into turns. the mini is more like a rally car to drive in a strong wind. keep in mind you have a fairly high centre of gravity and wheel height. and the surface your sailing on is very smooth and flat
