Select to expand quoteHiko said..
The foot of Windsurf sails are quite often cut up quite high so you dont want the tack above your mast brace or the sail will be very high
I would suggest you cut off the sail mast sleeve at the foot enough to clear the mast brace that you have and fasten the tack of the sail at the mast base
You will definitely need a mast stiffener inside the mast at the base for 800mm or so and extending above the mast brace that you have
Your standard windsurf sail should then be long enough without any more modification and use the windsurf boom as is
Standard windsurf sails need a lot of downhaul to make them set right
As long as the clew of the sail is above your head you should be fine
Chook on this forum has a good bit of experience with standard windsurf sails on landyachts perhaps you could send him a PM
OK, thanks Hiko, all of this makes sense. Seeing that it is a public beach I do want to make sure that I can see well. Maybe I can use the bamboo as the stiffener! I put all that work into taking the twigs off of it! 
No, I'll use real wood. Maybe I'll use the bamboo as a decoration.
I rolled down a hill on a dirt road to test my steering. With the large trail it is sensitive and floppy at low speeds but as I got up a little speed it seemed to start tracking pretty well. It turned well with no sign of slippage, and it was a fairly loose surface. Trying to stop at the bottom of the hill with my feet has me thinking about some kind braking system.
Select to expand quotesearunner said..
I rolled down a hill on a dirt road to test my steering. Trying to stop at the bottom of the hill with my feet has me thinking about some kind braking system.
Chook, Landyacht [Paul], and a few others used their landyachts as billycarts a while back when the wind failed to arrive.
They made a you-tube vid of it - and you can see Pauls brakes in action at the bottom of the hill.
I'm not too sure where to find the vid', but someone will point you in the right direction before long.
stephen
So I got the windsurf sails - a six meter and a seven. I think I may now have a reasonably decent sheeting system. I cobbled it together from existing sailing parts I had. It's a bit of a mess but it might work. It's a four x downhaul and a three x main sheet. Hopefully the four x with the thicker line will be ok. I will need to loosen the downhaul as the sail moves out to the side since the mast support members restrict the travel.
I had been thinking that I would be able to just let the sail weathervane downwind if things got hairy but it looks like with the downhaul connected it will be difficult to do so quickly.
I added about two feet to the top of the mast and will add a four foot dowel inside the bottom of the mast to stiffen it.
Here's some pics. Go ahead, laugh.
I'm going to beef up the back of the seat so the adjuster rod does not pierce my back in an accident. Wondering about some kind of flexible rod with a ring on the stern to gather the main sheet and keep it back there.
I won't be cleating off the main sheet but I installed a horn cleat just to keep it in place. May be able to use it as a friction cleat. I need a bucket or something to hold the extra mainsheet.
I think what I have is a cammed sail. The cam keeps slipping off the mast and will need some kind of modification so as not to be so troublesome.
I must say that this thing is starting to look serious. I'm a little worried about being able to stop! The beach does not give much room to turn upwind before one is into the water.
Looks like I may get 15 knot winds in a couple of days for a possible maiden of the new and improved "Noble Turkey".
If it works and does not self destruct I just may treat her to some paint!
Thanks again for all of your help. I expect I'm not done learning from y'all. 
According to Chook if your cams keep slipping off you need a lot more down haul. (from Chooks construction page) 
Select to expand quoteTest pilot 1 said..
According to Chook if your cams keep slipping off you need a lot more down haul. (from Chooks construction page)
I'm thinking of wire ties or a section of pvc pipe, or just remove the darn thing. Why don't they make these things with rings so they can't come off? I only have one, is that typical?
Select to expand quoteTest pilot 1 said..
According to Chook if your cams keep slipping off you need a lot more down haul. (from Chooks construction page)
Yep dead right TP1. This is where most people get it wrong with a cambered sail. 
In your photo as the yacht is siting un-sheeted, you have virtually no (very little when compared to what is required) downhaul pressure on the mast pocket.
Your 3 and 4th batten are going past the mast and there is no chance of that cam staying on.
The mast pocket cannot have a single wrinkle in it.
The top of your mast needs to be at least 600mm to 800mm behind the base before you even pull the sheet rope.
Your sail outhaul, to the back of the boom needs to be REALLY tight as well.
Take the pulley block off the front of your sail and fit it to the last cord of your downhaul rope (just on the last cord before it's tied off with a knot)
This way when you sheet in hard it will tension your down haul. This is called a "Crocket downhaul"
This way you can get a lot of downwards pressure onto the foot of the sail to curve your mast to get the sail to set correctly. You will need to tighten it up so there is no slack in the downhaul system of pulley blocks, when there is no pressure on your sheeting rope. Before you go sailing.
LOTS OF DOWNHAUL PRESSURE is needed for a cambered sail to have any chance of working.
We uses a cleat to hold the bottom of the downhaul cord (We use 6 to 1, for downhaul pressure on cambered sails).
Tension with the sheet rope and take up the slack through the cleat, while locking off the downhaul pressure on the top pulley block so it doesn't slip through while taking up the slack.
After 10 mins sailing tension again to take out all slack.
After a while you learn where to set it. Or just mark the cord so you pull it up to that tension each time you sail.
Yes 1, 2, 3, and 4 cambers are very common.
Persevere...... as that is a fantastic looking sail. 
That Crockett downhaul looks like a great idea. I will do that, thanks. I have to get used to the cam. I will use more downhaul.
Glad to hear that the sail looks good. I plan on the new maiden sail tomorrow. The winds are supposed to be 15 knots gusting to 25. It's been nice knowing you guys.
I was wondering.....do you guys lift the sail and mast vertically when setting up the yacht or do you lay the yacht on it's side when inserting the mast. It would seem to me that holding the mast and sail up in strong winds would be hard to do.
Hope you have fitted an internal strengthener into your mast as they cop a lot of load at the mast step.
Fit the mast to your yacht and then lay it down with the mast pointed almost directly into wind/slightly across the wind with mast pocket of the sail into the wind.
Place the sail at the tip of the mast and start to fit the mast into the pocket.
This way you can leave your sail rolled up on the ground and feed it onto the mast as it unrolls it's self and doesn't flap about wildly in the wind. (If the mast is downwind the sail unrolls by it's self and flaps badly in a breeze).
Make sure the webbing strap at the front of your sail is secured around the mast and done up on the sail again, as this tensions up the foot of the sail and stops the mast pocket of the sail from tearing out.
Fit your boom and ropes and downhaul the sail as best you can for a start with yacht still on it's side.
Fit the cam and then go to the top of the mast and work your way down the mast, lifting your yacht upright as you go and end up with the craft facing directly into the wind.
This way your not fighting against any wind pressure on the sail. It will sit there pretty well, not trying to blow over while you sort out the downhaul etc.
This also is the way you stand the yacht up again when a capsize occurs.
You have done a great job of this yacht and please post some photos of you sailing and the area you are sailing on.
Yes, I have installed a 1.3 meter long dowel in the base.
And yes, I would have figured out that way of setting up the yacht......after doing it the hard way twenty times. :)
And I did not know that the strap goes around the mast.
Thanks.
Select to expand quotesearunner said..
And I did not know that the strap goes around the mast.
Thanks.
Not only does it go round your mast, it is the fine tuning for the sail below the bottom two battens. By adding or releasing tension on the webbing you can remove every wrinkle in your sail in this area without using any sheet tension.
That's why a drum tight outhaul gets it all sorted.
A cambered sail without any sheet tension should be drum tight and without a single wrinkle if it's setup correctly.
It does take a bit of fluffing round to match the mast to a sail. Particularly when it is not designed to take that particular sail. The mast pockets wont sit right and cams drive you mad.
But all the information is printed on the sail.
Mast IMCS (Strength/flex)
Luff length
Boom length
With windsurfing rigs you just have to reverse the way we currently think about setups.
You match the mast to the sail, NOT the other way round. 
If these parameters are followed it's dead simple.
For the sail sizes I use, I have 2 masts.
The total cost of each mast was $15.00 each.
There are heaps of second hand gear, at "dirt cheap prices" here is sleepy Western Australia crying out to get a new lease on life.
I've never paid more than $15.00 for a mast or sail and they are brilliant for experimentation on a mini yacht.
On my 5.6 mini, I use an extended 36 IMCS mast up to a 9m2 sail and a 25 IMCS mast when down to 5.5m2 storm sail in 30 plus knots of wind.
Sail sizes to suit all conditions have worked out for me to be 9m2, 8.4, 6.6, and a 4 cam SEVERN storm sail of 5.5m2.
"searunner" You are really going to enjoy your yacht and thanks for sharing your journey through the build. I just love to see this happening and widening our profile into this great sport. You are to be congratulated!!!
Well done.
Select to expand quotesn said..searunner said..
I rolled down a hill on a dirt road to test my steering. Trying to stop at the bottom of the hill with my feet has me thinking about some kind braking system.
Chook, Landyacht [Paul], and a few others used their landyachts as billycarts a while back when the wind failed to arrive.
They made a you-tube vid of it - and you can see Pauls brakes in action at the bottom of the hill.
I'm not too sure where to find the vid', but someone will point you in the right direction before long.
Stephen
Select to expand quoteChook2 said..
sn said..
searunner said..
I rolled down a hill on a dirt road to test my steering. Trying to stop at the bottom of the hill with my feet has me thinking about some kind braking system.
Chook, Landyacht [Paul], and a few others used their landyachts as billycarts a while back when the wind failed to arrive.
They made a you-tube vid of it - and you can see Pauls brakes in action at the bottom of the hill.
I'm not too sure where to find the vid', but someone will point you in the right direction before long.
Stephen
Gee chook, I hate to be impolite, but you guys are crazy! That looked like a lot of fun.
Well, I got it down to the beach today for the maiden number two.
And it worked!! The wind was a tease and was barely enough to get a few slow runs going one way on the beach. But it worked. The wheels floated like champs, even on the soft sand.
The steering angle needs to get more vertical for less trail. I was fighting the front tire too much.
I need to fine tune my rigging a little more. The cam continues to be a pain. I think my mast with the tape on it makes it less slippery and probably contributes to the problem. I'll figure something out. I'm actually considering using a pvc T to hold the sucker in place.
My recovery winch setup worked like a charm. It pulled it back up the bluff with no problem. That's a huge problem that has been fixed.
All in all it was a very successful mission. I learned a lot and next time it will be better.
And there was one gust that suddenly accelerated me when I was on the upper beach where the soft deep sand is. The deep sand is no longer a worry. That was a thrill. I'm pretty psyched.
I got some lame video of me fumbling around but the camera stopped before I got a good run. Not sure why. I tried editing in movie maker but that software almost made me jump out the window. Maybe if I get some patience back....
Better we just wait until I get this thing really moving.
Thanks for all the help and words of encouragement.
Select to expand quoteChook2 said..
Hope you have fitted an internal strengthener into your mast as they cop a lot of load at the mast step.
Fit the mast to your yacht and then lay it down with the mast pointed almost directly into wind/slightly across the wind with mast pocket of the sail into the wind.
Place the sail at the tip of the mast and start to fit the mast into the pocket.
This way you can leave your sail rolled up on the ground and feed it onto the mast as it unrolls it's self and doesn't flap about wildly in the wind. (If the mast is downwind the sail unrolls by it's self and flaps badly in a breeze).
.
Landyachts version.
always lay the mast pointing DOWNWIND and unroll the sail and let it lay flat on the gound so it doest flap. if the yacht has a drop in mast step and your rig or the wind isnt just plain silly. fit the mast to the sail then to the yacht.
i think there might be a slight point of difference here chook
Select to expand quotelandyacht said..
Landyachts version.
always lay the mast pointing DOWNWIND and unroll the sail and let it lay flat on the ground so it doesn't flap. if the yacht has a drop in mast step and your rig or the wind isn't just plain silly. fit the mast to the sail then to the yacht.
i think there might be a slight point of difference here chook
Nah, that's a great way to do it as well, if like you say the wind isn't up. Good you chimed in.
Mono-film unrolls easily though.
I well remember the very first time I ever sailed at Lake Lefroy. I was really struggling in a brisk wind to get my sail onto my first yacht. "Lil Stig" wandered over on her bike and said "that's a pretty silly way to get your sail on". Jumped off her bike and showed me how. We had it fitted in a flash. 
I then got out on the main lake and was fairly hooting along, only to look to the left to see "Green Arrow" overtake me at a great rate of knots with "Mid Stig" in command and she was giving me the big thumbs up. Talk about how to humble a guy.
Hey "searunner" that's great news.
I'm really pleased those wheels are doing their job. It makes so much difference to rolling resistance.
That's why Greg and I use our "Fat bike" 26"x 4" tyres on the rear of our mini's, for our soft lake. It makes it much more fun, leaves very little depressions in the wheel tracks and means we can use nearly 3 times the area we would if we were using wheelbarrow tyres. Not to mention the extra speed, stability and grip.
I had nothing to do with the downhill video. That's onboard with "landyacht".
The Kalgoorlie lads were havin' fun.
Hence the closing credits directed towards the ESCLSC. (Esperance Soft C*#k Land Sailing Club) Us Esperance lads had stayed in the local hotel, while the Kalgoorlie fellas braved the sub zero overnight temperatures out on the lake at Norseman. 
Can't wait for the video mate!!!
Well, a new boom has been made from the bamboo. A loop of rope was taped on with strapping tape. The kind with the strings in it. The mast fork was gorilla glued in place. The whole boom was wrapped with the tape. The bamboo is strong light and stiff but prone to splitting. The tape should help prevent that.
I didn't like the windsurf boom. Heavy and overkill. Plus it was a little fussy installing. The new one rests on top of the upper mast support.
I also changed the front fork back to the original head angle. Not sure why I changed it the first time. Also straightened the steering linkage and made it more direct to the fork. It now feels precise.
Also made some other changes.
So guys, I think she's ready to try on the beach tomorrow. The winds will be strong and direct 90 degrees onto it at 15 gusting to 25 knots. But the temps will be cold. Below freezing.
I'm a little apprehensive. I'll be using a 6 meter sail. The tide will be low so I have three miles of beach to use.
I'll use the seat belt and will be wearing my motorcycle helmet with face shield for warmth and safety.
What could go wrong? I suppose I'll find out.
I'll try and get some video.
6 sq metres of sail 15 knots gusting to 25 of wind , freezing temperatures Woo hoo hold on to your hat !
Cold air is stronger than warm This will be a real test for your yacht and your gear
A one minute video of the downwind leg.
Oh duh, forgot to publish. I could see it on the site here but you could not.
Should work now.
The video is from a keychain camera model 808. Not the best but the thing is so small I just tape it to my helmet and I don't worry about it because it's cheap also. Maybe one day I will treat myself to a go pro. And once again the darn thing did not record as long as I wanted it to. Bloody technology.
I used an app on my phone to measure max speed. It must be wrong because it felt like I was doing like 80 MPH yet it says 24 MPH
Of course the oncoming boulders probably made it seem faster.
Onward!
Select to expand quoteChook2 said..l video. That's onboard with "landyacht".
The Kalgoorlie lads were havin' fun.
Hence the closing credits directed towards the ESCLSC. (Esperance Soft C*#k Land Sailing Club) Us Esperance lads had stayed in the local hotel, while the Kalgoorlie fellas braved the sub zero overnight temperatures out on the lake at Norseman.
Can't wait for the video mate!!!
that was a great night you D'esperants missed. breeze came in at 9.00pm for 1.5hrs temp was -1celcius. officially the coldest place iin WA that night. and we camped next to the BOM station. . beer from esky felt almost hot .
your yacht looks great . from the look of your beach Im personally amazed you can sail on it . it is soft steepand narrow with a crap wind direction , yet you have a built a yacht that has sailed on it . I believe that qualifies you for a degree in Landyacht construction from the Lake lefroy international uniniversity of landsailing. Pm your snail mail and we will get one prepared(seriously). very few degrees have been awarded in the last few years.
Im sure the Dean of Cams will second my nomination
Searunner Great for your maiden sail! Looks like the wind was not as strong as expected
Your beach looks quite narrow but you managed to turn at the end OK
You must be encouraged by all that Well done!
Select to expand quoteHiko said..
Searunner Great for your maiden sail! Looks like the wind was not as strong as expected
Your beach looks quite narrow but you managed to turn at the end OK
You must be encouraged by all that Well done!
Thanks Hiko.
Yeah the wind is an interesting thing isn't it? The buoy out in the sound northeast of me at the time I was sailing was reading an average of 18 knots due north. But on my north facing beach the winds were hitting obliquely from the NW so the run west back upwind was not easy, especially with a rig that was collapsing.
And the 30 meter high bluffs behind the beach must slow the wind down a little and turn it, and I noticed that in the spots where the top of the bluff was open and lower, the wind was stronger there.
But yeah, I'm encouraged, I went at least as fast as the wind. I wasn't cold at all either. Not that I remember.
The limits of my site has me thinking about making my yacht portable. If I can just remove the rear cross member the two pieces will fit into my work van. Should be doable with just a few nuts to deal with. There are many local beaches that are more wide open and have better wind.
I also have a 7 meter sail
my yacht is a solidly welded together frame. so disassembly is not possible. it's a similar size to yours (maybe a little smaller) I made a roof rack for my honda to lug it around with. Also I took mine for a spin today and hit a new top recorded speed of 24 mph. it felt pretty fast but I need to go faster. 
Select to expand quotesearunner said..
Also unfortunately, and probably no surprise to anyone here but me, is that my upper mast support strut could not take the compression forces on it and it bent. I had thought that tensile forces would be the big one but I guess the upwind sailing puts a lot of force sideways and thus back along the strut. So I need something stiffer than 1/2 inch electrical conduit. I guess aluminum tubing would be good.
Way cool video!
Congratulations getting everything to work!
A larger diameter tube will be more resistant to bending.
Cheers,
Geoff S.
P.S. - You're not the only one with side-tube bending problems!
Select to expand quoteJAronstein said..
my yacht is a solidly welded together frame. so disassembly is not possible. it's a similar size to yours (maybe a little smaller) I made a roof rack for my honda to lug it around with. Also I took mine for a spin today and hit a new top recorded speed of 24 mph. it felt pretty fast but I need to go faster.
That's funny that we hit the same top speed! Yeah, faster would be even better.
Select to expand quoteGeoffSobering said..
searunner said..
Also unfortunately, and probably no surprise to anyone here but me, is that my upper mast support strut could not take the compression forces on it and it bent. I had thought that tensile forces would be the big one but I guess the upwind sailing puts a lot of force sideways and thus back along the strut. So I need something stiffer than 1/2 inch electrical conduit. I guess aluminum tubing would be good.
Way cool video!
Congratulations getting everything to work!
A larger diameter tube will be more resistant to bending.
Cheers,
Geoff S.
P.S. - You're not the only one with side-tube bending problems!
Thanks for the compliment on the video. Hopefully they will get better. Both production-wise and sailing-wise. I thought the stock Youtube music worked pretty well. The guitar comes in just as I'm accelerating. Unfortunately the run is over before the music
Interesting to see that bent tube. And that's on a production yacht. I don't feel so bad. I realize now that mine probably bent from sheeting in hard in addition to the upwind stresses.
I already have new tubing, twice the diameter. Designed for land yachts............1inch emt electrical conduit.
2 b cntd
Went down to the beach, the wind was 21 knots average gusting to 31 knots, measured with a hand held windmeter. My yacht still needs work so I did not sail. But the wind direction was 310 degrees. My upwind path along the beach is 265 degrees, leaving the proverbial 45 degrees.
Do you guys think that could be done with my set up? Remembering that I am on soft sand with balloon tires.
This is the problem with my site. The wind is almost always from that direction.
Now on the weekend we are supposed to get a blizzard and the wind direction will be good.
I don't know if I'm ready for that.
