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Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Sail making

Pfaff vs. Neckermann

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Created by JoeHanson > 9 months ago, 12 Feb 2016
JoeHanson
48 posts
12 Feb 2016 1:33AM
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Hi Everybody,
i've been reading about Surfsail-recutting here for so long, i could'nt hold back anymore...

What I've learned so far:
Workspace cant be big enough.
Pipe ring are great for keeping big rolls together.
Thicker needles need more(!) power, blunt needles dont work at all. Size 90 works best for me.
Needles break surprisingly often .
Underthread spool is empty at about half way .

The Pfaff 260 is a realy good machine but when the layers get thicker the 50 year old Neckermann (right hand) does it better!


No, im not sewing plywood on the Pfaff...

Motor is salvaged from a Singer-machine, special custom one-off adapter...:




Sailmaking Toolbox, heavy bottom for solid stand:


When weather gets better, i'll take photos of the sails...
Cheers, Joe


Chook2
WA, 1249 posts
12 Feb 2016 9:25AM
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Awesome!!!!!

Yeh even with stronger industrial sewing machines I still go through heaps of needles. I use 110 or 120.

I buy them in mixed lots of 100 as they are only 50 cents each including freight then from eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260700018651?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=560017965413&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I use 69 thread and manage to break a lot of needles due to not knowing what it's actually sewing through.

Dacron is really tough on your gear and the residual sand isn't nice either. Make sure you clean/blow down the machine well afterwards and lube to prevent rust.

I see you have a roll there.
Double sided tape is an absolute necessity too. Holds everything in perfect alignment while you sew it up.
I buy the 50 meter rolls that are 50mm wide and it is used to join industrial carpet. It is incredibly strong, wafer thin and sticks like no others that I have tried.
I just strip it to the width I need with a sharp blade while it is still on the roll.

JoeHanson
48 posts
12 Feb 2016 7:15PM
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Hi Chook, the roll is just masking tape i tried. The last bit of sticky tape went into the mastpocket. Have'nt counted the meters and meters of tape and seams in a average sail...
Cutting your own tape is a good idea but doesnt the glue stick to the needle?
And: YES, cleaning the Sail before recutting is a bit like archeology: salty finger, different kinds of sand in old seams etc.

Bynorthsea
104 posts
12 Feb 2016 8:47PM
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One item that has become an essential in my sail making kit is a can of silicone lubricant spray. Spraying a seam that is particularly thick or one with seam tape makes it for much more easily through your machine. As for needles I think mine are 110 denim needles but don't wait for them to break, replace them when they get blunt.

JoeHanson
48 posts
13 Feb 2016 1:21AM
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I guess my thread was once lubricated.... it is a bit sticky, thought it was waxed(?), but the sailmaker said its silicone.
The spool seems to be not the newest, it was the only one the sailmaker was willing to sell .
I'll try spray with 110 needle. Pushing the motor to the limit ! And look for better thread...

Made a new webbing shakle for the ratchet-block. Easy to change from yacht to yacht!
The old one was put off duty after a year of use.



Hiko
1229 posts
13 Feb 2016 6:08AM
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Hi Joe I havent seen that arrangement for your block attachment before Is that a split tube ? How does that work?

Chook2
WA, 1249 posts
13 Feb 2016 9:15AM
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It will gum the needle a bit sometimes, but usually it's not a problem.

A drop of this on the needle sorts it out anyway. It allows my big machine to punch through 12 layers of Dacron and 6 layers of webbing.
I use heaps of this to lubricate all my kite control lines. It dries and doesn't attract dust either.


landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
13 Feb 2016 8:23PM
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I rescue any small screwdrivers I find or wear out to use as awls. grind and sand them down to a point for pinning sails to the table. must try some silicon. I use a 130 needle and size 36 thread. keep 5 bobbbins redy to go and make sure they fill up when winding. glad to see so many people getting compulsively constructive with a sewing machine

JoeHanson
48 posts
13 Feb 2016 11:26PM
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Hiko, it works like this: (hope its getting clearer?):
You put the alu-tube through the webbing-eye on the other end: voila!
Webbing is from shutters.
Its easy to open and close. Don't have to mess around with pliers or loose small parts. And its CHEAP!



So when the sewing machine needs a drop of oil every now and then, why not one for the needle???
We are all thirsty sometimes...

Have to clean the Neckermann. It makes different noise from what should be...
I guess my thread is crap. theres odd remains from it along the path .

Yes, CCD with sewingmachines has kept me buisy through the coldest part of winter. No need for a shed or garage for that part.

A 130 needle sounds serious!

I envy Bens walking-foot sailrite machine, the transport on both my mahines was be abit random like...

Hiko
1229 posts
14 Feb 2016 5:43AM
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Select to expand quote
JoeHanson said..
Hiko, it works like this: (hope its getting clearer?):
You put the alu-tube through the webbing-eye on the other end: voila!
Webbing is from shutters.
Its easy to open and close. Don't have to mess around with pliers or loose small parts. And its CHEAP!


AHA ! CLEVER!

JoeHanson
48 posts
14 Feb 2016 10:51PM
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3,6 sqm(?) sail, recut from a 5,7sqm. Luff curve adapted from libre sail. Leech recut from top batten to foot. Two new battenpockets. surfing indian graphic !









JoeHanson
48 posts
14 Feb 2016 11:04PM
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5,5 sqm, recut from 6,7. Luff curve from FrogSail 5,5. Could be too much curve as luff is shorter on this sail.
Head cut off, top and foot batten added. Tear near clew fixed.
Foot looks like a skirt... . window material too stretchy? sew a tack in ? leave it like that???
Fabric feels a bit flimsy for this size of sail...
At least the coolest colours for 2016 ...or was it 1996 or...?








Hiko
1229 posts
15 Feb 2016 2:59AM
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I would think if you unstitch that black tabling along the foot and put two or three short vertical cuts in the pink sailcloth there and resew on the tabling that would fix it
You could also put in another piece along there like you have done on the other one
The sails looks good to me Well done

JoeHanson
48 posts
16 Feb 2016 3:30AM
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Thanx Hiko, i'll try that.
The foot is cut with some round, but it does'nt seem to work like on other sails. I guess the cloth is too soft?
Compared to your new sail, the surfsail development (= base to start from) is obvious !
I thought of adding small leech battens, like in modern surfsails?

Hiko
1229 posts
17 Feb 2016 6:27AM
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If you overlap the vertical cuts a little and tape them up to hold them you should be able to see what it will be like before you sew the tabling back on
I think its just a matter of shrinking the edge of the foot a little
You could try putting a cord under the tabling also as a way of tightening it in the same way a leech cord does

JoeHanson
48 posts
18 Feb 2016 4:49PM
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Looks better so far... the sail, not the weather...
May i'll exchange the black tabling. It's sewn on and taken of for 3 or 4 times, looks like a net...



Hiko
1229 posts
20 Feb 2016 12:50AM
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Looks good ! I have an old converted windsurf sail Also pink ! Must have been the rage colour way back then
It also seems flimsy compared with more modern sails but has stood up well and is soft and easy to handle
Dacron/Polyester I think it is about 3oz weight and is now 5sqm I like it and it has been my go to sail for the mini

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
21 Feb 2016 2:53PM
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most of that couloured dacron is 4oz. that seems to be where the coloured stops , except bright orange which comes in 4 and 8 oz

JoeHanson
48 posts
6 Apr 2016 1:52AM
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Been on the field testing. Wow! These are good sails! The fastest around!...
(well... ok, my daughter and me where most of the time the only sailers )
Many thanks to landyacht for " How i cut ..."! Works fantastic! I owe you a big box of Lübecker Marzipan!

The "F2" 5,5sqm is great for light to lightest winds. Daughter was the last one sailing when the wind died to almost nothing.

Removed the lowest batten for even better light wind performance.








and yes, i bought the 4th sewing machine . This time the right one...

Hemp
1 posts
6 Jan 2017 5:38AM
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A softshackle works as well and is easy to make.
No metal that could knock your teeths out.
Look at premium ropes:8.1 Dyneema softshackle - version 1



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Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Sail making


"Pfaff vs. Neckermann" started by JoeHanson