While we're on the subject of batteries, I have a question.
My boat has a house master switch and a start master like most others i guess. Normally the house system is sitting around about 12.8 - 13.1v SOC, and the start battery about the same. I habitually turn off the start master when not using the motor. I noticed the other night when I turned off the start master that the SOC of the start battery dropped rapidly to around 11.8-11.7v SOC (multimeter at the terminals after i cleaned them). Is this because it's connected somehow to the house system, and is being supported by it when on, but is actually stuffed? Does turning off the start master simply isolate that one battery?, cause when i switched it back on, the SOC jumped right back up to match the house. Also, there seems to be far too much wiring attached to the start battery as compared to the house system. I don't know where it all goes, although i can account for some of it (starter, windlass, lifting pump) Could this be the problem? Or an earth leak?
I have no idea how to troubleshoot this, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Cant start without the start master on, and will start with house switched off.
House master powers up the panel board and fridge etc.
I did notice that when i had the connections off the neg terminal on the start battery for cleaning, that the house panel went dead, i didn't think thats supposed to happen, but i put everything back the way it was in fear of mucking it up by changing it.
12 volt electrics is a black art. Good luck mate. Often the best way is to rip it all out and start again from the begining and make wiring diagrams as you go. Good winter job
Thanks Shaggy and Seamonkey - I think you've connected to a few dots for me. All measurements were made at night with everything turned off, so no charging or load. Im now thinking that its a bit of bodgey wiring in combination with a bad starter battery. The house system is rock solid and checks out fine, so I'm looking at the starter as the fail. Ill do the testing tonight, and the physical sighting tomorrow with better light. I think only one wire from the start neg connected to the house so I can re-run that one to the house- that would solve that problem, and I could probably work out where the other ones are coming from, but i think my biggest issue will be sorting this -
- or do i just sort out the batteries and leave this alone? (pic should be portrait, sorry)
I'm guessing it's the lifting pump but why all the wiring?
Azure, I agree start battery likely to be suss. what charging system/s do you have ? Alternator only - panels - wind ? And I'm guessing both 12v systems ?
HI Azure, Yep, keel lift pump. Having just been through the same thing, I took a photo and marked it up so I could remember what I was doing when I pulled it down , I labelled the wiring in the pic following the three main circuits;
- Main power circuit
- Thermistor circuit
- Control button circuit.
Took me a while to work it out, hopefully yours is similar and I can save you some wasted time !
Hi Azure
Follow Shaggies advice.
What you have here is a solenoid contactor.
Nothing to do with fuel lifting pump even though it is mounted right next to the filter,
We use contactors when we want to switch on/off a high amperage load.
This is usually the starter motor or it can be a battery isolation switch.
The two heavy lines on the left and the right are the lines which are switched. (on yours , left = line in , Right = line out) I think.
The smaller lines at the front are the control circuit connections. One is positive and one is negative.
As you can see you have a red wire and a black wire connected to the same control circuit lug. looks like someone ran out of one colour wire.
That screams bodgy job somewhere along the line.
These solenoid contactors have two roles on a boat.
1, they are a starter motor solenoid contactor
2. battery isolation solenoid contactor, The easiest way to test is to hold you hand against the solenoid and turn the ignition key. You will feel it click in and then you will know what you have,If this is close to your stater motor and one of the heavy cables connects to the starter, it is the starter solenoid contactor.
A thought for later.
On my boat the start battery and the house battery have no connection between them expect for a charge selector.
I flick a switch to send my super powerful (35w) solar charge into the battery of choice. So they are isolated.
I have jumper cables if I ever want to hook up both batteries to start.
I have a charge selector for a 4WD with two batteries. It senses which battery need a boost when the engine is running and feeds into that one automatically.
PS the terminal strip on the left of the solenoid looks in pretty bad shape. Off to Bunnies.
gary
Didn't think of that, Uncle Bob.
Goes to show how important an up-to-date wiring diagram is.
If you fit something electrical, make a diagram and make wires.
then pass it on to the new owner when you sell.
Gary
G'day Azure,
That sucks and is great news all at once! Sucks you had to replace it, but now you have a new battery .
Good on you for chasing it down, replacing an engine battery at the dock is sooo much better than finding out when you're a gazillion miles from anywhere.
I was down the boat yesterday mucking around with the NKE display layout when I noticed a high current alarm on the autopilot page. I repowered and reset everything, and sure enough, as soon as I went to engage the autopilot the same alarm popped up again. Turn off the engine, no high current alarm. Hmm.
A high current alarm to me says my regulator on the alternator has gone kaput. This would explain why I have had to replace a couple of batteries, I think my charging system has been overcharging and eating batteries. I 'll get down the boat today to have a good look in the daylight, I dont know on the Penta 30D if the reg is internal in the alternator or a black box hidden in the wiring somewhere....gotta love tinkering with boats!
Well it's all back in place and everything seems to be working correctly Yay!
Shaggy - I noticed when I took the old start battery out that the sticker showing the installation date (which was hidden under the hold down strap) showed February 2007 !, so I think I got a pretty damn good run out of it!!
Fishmonkey - thanks for the link. Definitely a good read, and made me feel secure that the ACR (now that I know what it is!) is in the right place and doing what it's supposed to do. Very comforting.
Seamonkey - brilliant, thankyou!, the diagnostic chart is exactly what I needed.
Depending on your wiring and battery health, your batteries can stay in // while the engine is off and isolated. Yep, but only when it needs to, now i know the acr is working properly.
Does your solar relay feed into your main? Yes
and is your acr on the battery side of your main/aux isolating switches? Yes
Maybe check for any leakage on your main batteries checked, and nothing suss.
and that your solar relay is working correctly. Yes, checked all the parameters, working correctly
Not confusing , actually clarifying. Now I don't have to panic when the damn led goes off - which is what I've been doing - with the chart I can see it's doing exactly what it's supposed to, and that makes me feel a whole lot better.
I put everything back together pretty much the way I found it, apart from replacing old connections etc, I figured it's been working properly for the last 13 years so don't change it.
One thing I did find a bit weird was that with the start battery in // with the rest of the system, when the fridge cuts in, there is no draw on the start battery. Don't quite know how this has been achieved, but I think it's pretty cool.
A big thankyou to everyone who has contributed - the 'black art' of my 12v systems have become a bit less black, and a bit more grey.
I love the SB forum! What would have taken me weeks to sort out on my own has been solved in just days with the combined brains trust! Gotta love that
Azure
Start making a wiring diagram with wire colours.
If you do it job by job you will eventually end up with something really useful.
Glad you are back in action.
Gary
Excellent idea Gary, but lots of wiring in either black or red. I'll probly have to do a trace and tag each circuit, but like Troubadour says - a good job for winter!