A worrying response

Hi all

We are trying to attract people to sailing down here and ran an shorter advert in the local paper and had this on the end of our weekly sailing article

TRY SAILING DAY.This coming Saturday 16th December, 1pm, (weather dependent) the Huon Yacht Club invites members of the public interested in sailing, to join us for an afternoon on the water. Several of our regular racing yacht skippers have kindly offered to take members of the public out on their yachts so that people may experience sailing. They would like to encourage anyone interested, in the hope they may crew regularly on some of the boats. Open to 18 years and over, limit 2 persons per yacht. Bookings are essential as places are limited. Location Huon Yacht Club, Shipwrights Point, Port Huon. Contact Don xxxx on xxxxxxxxxx for further information and bookings

This went in the paper which came out on Wednesday and i had no calls at all

The idea was to have 2 sailors on each boat ( i had 4 boats lined up) with 2 members of the public and let them steer and play with sheets etc for an hour or two and hopefully get some new members in the club

Is it to close to Christmas or is there a lack of interest in sailing

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Regards Don

Our club hosts Discover Sailing days through the Australian Sailing Program every October. Always a pretty successful event with a good turnout of newcomers and I understand new memberships to the club and courses make it well worthwhile.

discoversailing.org.au/discover-sailing/discover-sailing-days/

I've talked about Try Sailing with quite a few clubs and even those that get lots of people through the door get no members from it, or at least not as far as they can see.

I'm glad Free's club has found it worthwhile - where is it and what do they do?

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Donk107 said..
Hi all

We are trying to attract people to sailing down here and ran an shorter advert in the local paper and had this on the end of our weekly sailing article

TRY SAILING DAY.This coming Saturday 16th December, 1pm, (weather dependent) the Huon Yacht Club invites members of the public interested in sailing, to join us for an afternoon on the water. Several of our regular racing yacht skippers have kindly offered to take members of the public out on their yachts so that people may experience sailing. They would like to encourage anyone interested, in the hope they may crew regularly on some of the boats. Open to 18 years and over, limit 2 persons per yacht. Bookings are essential as places are limited. Location Huon Yacht Club, Shipwrights Point, Port Huon. Contact Don xxxx on xxxxxxxxxx for further information and bookings

This went in the paper which came out on Wednesday and i had no calls at all

The idea was to have 2 sailors on each boat ( i had 4 boats lined up) with 2 members of the public and let them steer and play with sheets etc for an hour or two and hopefully get some new members in the club

Is it to close to Christmas or is there a lack of interest in sailing

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Regards Don

This time of year has so many social commitments, xmas shopping and getting business finalised before xmas break. You may find a much better response during the holiday season after new year.

I have my own boat, its old and nice for cruising. I used to crew on skiffs and then yachts. Recently i went down to xyz yacht club to go for a run on a friends race boat, as i was signing in i was told if you crew more than a couple of times you will have to join the club to sail again so you have crew insurance,i suggested that a ya membership from another club should be adaquate.... Umm no you must join our club at a cost of half my yearly haulout. I dont race any more. I understand there are costs for the club involved but i wonder if it is that much or are SOME clubs keeping it elite by cost. I do miss the racing side of sailing, but cant justify the cost to be a semi regular crew member.i would be happy to pay a small membership or a pay per race scheme.

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oldboyracer said..
I have my own boat, its old and nice for cruising. I used to crew on skiffs and then yachts. Recently i went down to xyz yacht club to go for a run on a friends race boat, as i was signing in i was told if you crew more than a couple of times you will have to join the club to sail again so you have crew insurance,i suggested that a ya membership from another club should be adaquate.... Umm no you must join our club at a cost of half my yearly haulout. I dont race any more. I understand there are costs for the club involved but i wonder if it is that much or are SOME clubs keeping it elite by cost. I do miss the racing side of sailing, but cant justify the cost to be a semi regular crew member.i would be happy to pay a small membership or a pay per race scheme.

If this was your lcal club i agree. However in that place I don't think it is about keeping it elite it's more about trying to get more money out of people. I raced at that club since I was 10 never heard anything about needing to be a member in the past.
As for insurance the boat needs to have insurance to race and this would cover the crew.
People in sydney in my experience want to race on big flash boats and on the harbour.
To a degree I think it is people are time poor and don't want to commit .

When one arrives at a yacht club what do you get? A Boomgate, a fence, signs saying do not enter, strange people wandering around in Navy whites and lapels speaking odd terminology....it's all had its day.

The likelyhood of people spending the day at the club chatting, rigging and playing with boats is also gone so it's the structure that needs a shake up. Australian Sailing had a Research piece presented a few years back that told them exactly that...how many clubs have acted on it?

As pessimistic as that all sounds it's still a worthy challenge to keep trying and get people on boats. The rewards of seeing people discover a new world is well worth it. A fresh approach can work well locally.

Community market stalls, Shopping Centre stalls, linking with local schools and winter sporting clubs are all strategies that can work. People are still crying out to be part of a community....as old school as that sounds.

But in the end it's always down to individuals passion like Donks to drive it.

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oldboyracer said..
I have my own boat, its old and nice for cruising. I used to crew on skiffs and then yachts. Recently i went down to xyz yacht club to go for a run on a friends race boat, as i was signing in i was told if you crew more than a couple of times you will have to join the club to sail again so you have crew insurance,i suggested that a ya membership from another club should be adaquate.... Umm no you must join our club at a cost of half my yearly haulout. I dont race any more. I understand there are costs for the club involved but i wonder if it is that much or are SOME clubs keeping it elite by cost. I do miss the racing side of sailing, but cant justify the cost to be a semi regular crew member.i would be happy to pay a small membership or a pay per race scheme.

Hi Old Boy

We run the 3 race rule as well and then we would like the person to join so that they get an Australian Sailing Number and are covered by the insurance that is part of the number but out yearly membership is $95 for a single adult and $145 for a family (2 adults and 2 children) so in our case the cost isn't that great

Also if people are a member of another club and have an Australian Sailing Number they do not have to join our club to participate in our races

Regards Don

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WA125er said..

When one arrives at a yacht club what do you get? A Boomgate, a fence, signs saying do not enter, strange people wandering around in Navy whites and lapels speaking odd terminology....it's all had its day.

The likelyhood of people spending the day at the club chatting, rigging and playing with boats is also gone so it's the structure that needs a shake up. Australian Sailing had a Research piece presented a few years back that told them exactly that...how many clubs have acted on it?

As pessimistic as that all sounds it's still a worthy challenge to keep trying and get people on boats. The rewards of seeing people discover a new world is well worth it. A fresh approach can work well locally.

Community market stalls, Shopping Centre stalls, linking with local schools and winter sporting clubs are all strategies that can work. People are still crying out to be part of a community....as old school as that sounds.

But in the end it's always down to individuals passion like Donks to drive it.

Hi WA

No fences or boom gates down here and the members of the club are just normal working class people so that shouldn't be an issue

Regards Don

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Donk107 said..

oldboyracer said..
I have my own boat, its old and nice for cruising. I used to crew on skiffs and then yachts. Recently i went down to xyz yacht club to go for a run on a friends race boat, as i was signing in i was told if you crew more than a couple of times you will have to join the club to sail again so you have crew insurance,i suggested that a ya membership from another club should be adaquate.... Umm no you must join our club at a cost of half my yearly haulout. I dont race any more. I understand there are costs for the club involved but i wonder if it is that much or are SOME clubs keeping it elite by cost. I do miss the racing side of sailing, but cant justify the cost to be a semi regular crew member.i would be happy to pay a small membership or a pay per race scheme.

Hi Old Boy

We run the 3 race rule as well and then we would like the person to join so that they get an Australian Sailing Number and are covered by the insurance that is part of the number but out yearly membership is $95 for a single adult and $145 for a family (2 adults and 2 children) so in our case the cost isn't that great

Also if people are a member of another club and have an Australian Sailing Number they do not have to join our club to participate in our races

Regards Don

You've got a good setup. I'm moving north and will take the 36 to the mid north coast of NSW. At least three of the clubs (Port Stephens, Coffs and Port Mac) state that they require ALL crew members to join the club after three races. For that reason, our boat is not going to race regularly.

It's hard enough getting 5 to 9 competent crew as it is for each race, without having to say "oh, fourth race is coming soon, pay up". All of the people who are competent enough for me to want them as core regulars are already members of other clubs. They'll only race with me at any one club half a dozen times or so (because we all have other boats and some of us live hours inland) so to ask them to join another club is too steep, especially since some of them could just go a few minutes further to Newcastle/Lake Mac and sail on much more glamourous boats and possibly get onto the pro gravy train.

I just can't see myself hassling the full 9 to 15 people you need to get a full set of bodies on board to become members. The response one normally gets about this issue from clubs is "well the crew should support the sport". But the guys I'd like to get include one club commodore, one vice-commodore who runs training courses, a rear-commodore who runs training, a former club president who ran training, and a guy who ran the kid's class in one of Australia's biggest dinghy clubs. All of these people have put in many unpaid hours in other clubs training new sailors and for some of them, with young families, a couple of hundred bucks just to sail a couple of races is unrealistic.

Not surprisingly I heard some of these clubs are struggling to get boats and the boats they do have are struggling to get crews. But finding a dozen or more people to join a second club is just too hard, so we'll just drop in every now and then to one or other of the clubs, do three races and then move on. And the clubs will lose out, just as we will.

Of interest, I used to sail at what I think was the first major Sydney club to require membership even for twilight races, as the mid north coast clubs do. That club has gone from being the biggest yacht club in NSW to one that gets less than 20 entries in its inshore pointscore - down by 90% from its peak.

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Agent nods said..
I think one of the problems is that the general public's only exposure to sailing is the extreme end....footage of Americas cups foiling cats, Syd/Hob high tech maxis, Rolex around the world fleets etc. they are intimating vessels - that even a reasonable sailor would struggle with. The footage you see mainly is when the high tech boats fail - in a spectacular fashion.

The only other time even cruising yachts make the media is when it goes wrong - when the make contact with ferries, wash up on the rocks or abandoned with rescue, injuries and deaths.

Most people have no understanding of sailing, and are intimidated by it...."why do you sail a lot of the time not in the direction you want to go to?" Then don't get me started on the nomenclature sailors use!!!

Maybe a change the offer to "An afternoon free cruise to the more scenic sites in the area, with a some nibbles/drinks." Once aboard and they are feeling comfortable, "do you want to steer for a while?" "can you pull this rope?" etc. Then when heading back do you want to come out again for a social race?...


Other question is why 18yrs+ (insurance?). Older school students 15y +, school leavers, even uni students over summer, have a lot of time on their hands....and if you get possibly young fit, people involved all the better?

Hi Nods

The reason we didn't go with the scenic cruise with drinks and nibbles was because we were targeting people who want to learn to sail, crew on boats and hopefully buy their own boat instead of people who just wanted to go for a sight see on the river but are not interested in sailing itself

We also said maximum of 2 people per boat (along with the 2 sailors on board) so that the boats i had lined up (a 27 footer, my 28 footer, a 34 footer and a 36 footer) would not be overloaded with people sitting around with nothing to do and making it hard to actually sail the boat and so we could spend a couple of hours with them showing them the basics of sailing

I guess we were looking at people who look at boats sailing on the river and think "i would like to do that" but haven't had the opportunity to try it

Regards Don

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sirgallivant said..
We are a dying breed mate!
Especially if one has the Manly ferry on the other side! Like the Eastsails monohull boat had this arvo near Fort Denison. Broken mast, breached hull, how appealing is that for a youngster or his parents on the ferry, l don't know.
It is all over the news and that is not going to paint a favourable picture of sailing et all.

The public is not looking at us as an interesting pastime but as a posh occupation past it's time.
Sad as it might be, it is the truth.

I have spent a lot of time sailing with Eastsail and I know them to be the best run sailing school.
Why is anyone allowed to have fourteen inexperienced pax on a yacht sailing near Fort Denison.
The ferry drivers have total right of way and take it.
Three ferry accidents in three months suggests that these drivers have a cavalier attitude to everyone else in the harbour and the findings of these investigations should be released to the public.
I have chosen to sail in Port Hacking while the 'silly season' reigns.
Best wishes to all.

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Bundeenaboy said..

sirgallivant said..
We are a dying breed mate!
Especially if one has the Manly ferry on the other side! Like the Eastsails monohull boat had this arvo near Fort Denison. Broken mast, breached hull, how appealing is that for a youngster or his parents on the ferry, l don't know.
It is all over the news and that is not going to paint a favourable picture of sailing et all.

The public is not looking at us as an interesting pastime but as a posh occupation past it's time.
Sad as it might be, it is the truth.

I have spent a lot of time sailing with Eastsail and I know them to be the best run sailing school.
Why is anyone allowed to have fourteen inexperienced pax on a yacht sailing near Fort Denison.
The ferry drivers have total right of way and take it.
Three ferry accidents in three months suggests that these drivers have a cavalier attitude to everyone else in the harbour and the findings of these investigations should be released to the public.
I have chosen to sail in Port Hacking while the 'silly season' reigns.
Best wishes to all.

i dunno. the harbour is a busy place, especially on the weekends. i feel for the ferry folk negotiating all that traffic. and if you sail there regularly the likely paths of the ferries is pretty predictable.

in my experience the most dangerous vessels in the harbour are some of the yachts racing around the cans, and the occasional stink boat pilot that thinks you want to surf their wake...

I'd say the time of year may be a bit of a factor, but ultimately, I don't know what your local paper is like, but the ad section in mine is pretty trashy and mainly used to line litter trays! I think you need to figure out what age group you're really targeting and see where you can reach them.

All of my crew are new to the sport, all younger than me (myself a youngin at 37!) and I've had to train them myself. I generally just post a thread on www.reddit.com, (you might be best posting a thread on www.reddit.com/r/tasmania) asking if anyone wants to come out for the day. I've been able to pick up a lot of people at the last minute, and now that I post the request semi regularly, I have to fend off offers for extra help. Also have a look into meetup.com - some friends of mine get plenty of sign ups to go sailing on some of the old AC yachts with https://www.meetup.com/Sydney-Sailing-Meetup-Australian-twelve-mtr-Association/events/245595902/

Most of them can't believe they're "allowed" to come out with me for nothing (well, a six pack always assures them a spot) and they flip out when I tell them how cheap my ex mooring minder was to buy. The perception amongst people my generation and below is that it's just for old rich dudes.

So, you need to make it obvious and easy when and who is able to come along. Had a quick look through your website and I'd really recommend putting a basic calendar up there of the next couple of upcoming races - including what time they're on. Have that right up top, rather than right at the end of your sailing program PDF. Another thing I've seen be really successful is having a designated, signposted "waiting area" for new people turning up on the dock for twilights so they know where to go and you can easily pick out someone who needs a hand finding a boat.

Something slightly less successful is posting a notice at any backpackers nearby - you'll get plenty come along, but they don't tend to stay.

Anyways, there's some ideas from a whippersnapper.

As far as racing/sailing on the Harbour is concerned, l sail a lot on different days of the week and the weekends are definitely the most over crowded days.
Every man and his dog is out but only if the weather is good. Racers are out in foul weather on most occasions but at least the rest is tied up. Those are the best sailing days.

As the weekend ferry accident goes, one of the boats from MH rendered assistance and the chaps told me, the ferry coming from the Quay gave a SINGLE SOUND SIGNAL which means "l am coming around ON YOUR STARBOARD !
After that signal the yacht turned towards its PORT SIDE!
Then, allegedly, the ferry rammed him.

Whatever the truth, l am very aware of the ferries and try to keep away from them at all cost.

There are a lot of people boating who have no clue of proper seamanship
not even the simple rules of the road.

I think sailing faces some challenges, but such a great sport should not just roll over and die.

I agree that these days the newspaper is unlikely to be successful. Social media, with some photos at minimum or video clips are more likely to have a result.

The image of sailing needs to change from blazers and boat shoes and the perception of requiring lots of money, to showing the exhilirating fun one can have sailing and that there is actually something for everyone, from keelboat crewing to foiling dinghies and everything in between.

Clubs, particularly club officials, need to portray the club in the best possible light in any interactions with prospective members. When looking for a yacht club, we had a fantastic experience at a Discover Sailing Day and were all set to join when the membership secretary, on a subsequent phone call, was downright rude and unhelpful, after which we decided to take our money elsewhere. All the hard work of the DSD was undone in that phone call. Not good for the club when conversion rates from those kind of days is rarely above 20% (i.e. out of every ten participants, two will become members). Another club that we enrolled the kids in for Tackers 2 were on to us on day one about buying the kids new Optis. Once we made it clear we could not afford Optis, nor were we interested in buying until the kids proved ongoing interest, we were basically ostracised. All of this worked in our favour because we ended up at a very family friendly club which gave all of us fantastic experiences over the longer term.

There is pretty good evidence that too great an emphasis on racing discourages teenagers, who emphasise the social side of sailing. The emphasis needs to be on fun for the majority of members in terms of casual racing and on-water challenges, with pure racing reserved for those who wish to take it to that level. Nothing kills kids' interest quicker than running through three start sequences with abandonments in order to move a buoy 2 degrees to port. I think the Open BIC class model of regattas seems to attract kids and offer this kind of fun, although I appreciate that overall the sailing skills may not develop as well as with Optis. Recognising that not everybody wants to be a Sydney-Hobart yachtie, or an Olympic dinghy sailor would be a good way to access the more casual, fun sailors.