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Forums > Sailing General

Asymmetrical Spinnaker sail plan effects

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Created by Bananabender > 9 months ago, 21 Apr 2018
Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
21 Apr 2018 1:51PM
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I need the advice of the experts.
I have ordered an assy. for my little Sonata mast head with a 40 cm.bowsprit and sock with the continuous line lengthened so I can control from the cockpit and don't have to repack.
I intend to use a running tack.
I sail solo.
Now I understand the sail is probably as big as the handkerchief some of you big blokes use but am keen to get it right for me.
The sailmaker has sent the sail plan and all measurements for approval. I have sought clarification on one aspect and would appreciate comment from yourselves.
The leech is 3.8% longer than the luff whereas in most articles I have read the luff is longer by 4% or more.
What would be the difference in sail characteristics .
bb

Tamble
194 posts
21 Apr 2018 12:41PM
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OK, not an expert, although I sail Asso skiffs.
The luff is usually longer because (1) that edge slopes well forward and the leech is often vertical (more or less in line with the mast) or only a little aft and (2) the leech - and thus the clew - is often high cut.

I didn't see any diagram. How does your look by comparison.

Trek
NSW, 1168 posts
21 Apr 2018 2:56PM
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Im with Tamble - not an expert. But I have found asymms very good sails. The sailmaker must want the clew of the sail to come a bit closer to the deck and maybe a bit further back. I guess he must know where the desirable centre of effort should be for that sail on your boat at the targeted point of sailing.. Sometimes they do it with a CAD system and dont actually know :-) I would ask him his theory.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2589 posts
21 Apr 2018 4:08PM
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Way to go B.B.! An Aso on a little Sonata, wahoo!
What is your intended wind angle and speed, ie: is it a reaching kite or deep VMG kite, or more of an all rounder?

Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
21 Apr 2018 5:21PM
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It is done on the CAD system. See below. I advised that I did not intend to race and would be using in not more than 10 apparent . They have just delivered a new main and jib recently and had all measurements on file as well IPS and TPS . Could it be because it is masthead rig?
Ha gets a bit boring without a kite downwind Shaggy and the old sym has more patches than original so decided an assy was the way to go.
Hell what's the worse that could happen.
Ideally I wanted reach -VMG mode.


shaggybaxter
QLD, 2589 posts
21 Apr 2018 9:50PM
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Select to expand quote
Bananabender said..
It is done on the CAD system. See below. I advised that I did not intend to race and would be using in not more than 10 apparent . They have just delivered a new main and jib recently and had all measurements on file as well IPS and TPS . Could it be because it is masthead rig?
Ha gets a bit boring without a kite downwind Shaggy and the old sym has more patches than original so decided an assy was the way to go.
Hell what's the worse that could happen.
Ideally I wanted reach -VMG mode.



Hi BB,
I'm no sailmaker, but I'm scratching my head over the fact the leach is longer than the luff. This makes sense on a Code 0 maybe, where the luff is tensioned on really hard (like a headsail) with the leach more rounded, and the clew is a long way behind the mast, but on a deep running kite?
I keep thinking that when you're running deep, you ease the tackline to have as much of the kite on the windward side of the forestay as you can, so this would shorten the luff more, exaggerating the difference, Thinking simplistically, your clew will be lower than the tack.

Sorry mate, I don't have the knowledge to understand this. I'd be interested if anyone explains this, it seems odd to me. My aso's certainly aren't.
Regards,
SB



saltiest1
NSW, 2510 posts
21 Apr 2018 10:34PM
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Sounds to me he got the measurements mistakenly placed. A polite question to him and then enlighten us on his wisdom perhaps?

Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
21 Apr 2018 10:52PM
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Will do

Tamble
194 posts
22 Apr 2018 5:43AM
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If that diagram shows the bow to the left of screen, one thing doesn't make sense. The pole is presumably at deck level, yet the leech/ clew drops below where even the most pronounced shear line would take it.

As the others have said, some polite questioning might help you understand.

morningsun
179 posts
22 Apr 2018 9:32AM
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In your diagram, tack, clew, head, and luff, leech, foot are not labeled, are you only assuming the leech is longer?

Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
22 Apr 2018 12:08PM
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I assumed the tack to be on the right but then again that image may be only for the colour plan acceptance.

lydia
1881 posts
22 Apr 2018 3:40PM
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Something really wrong here, none of those measurements make sense, even the area.
Might be symmetrical but just buy a few etchell kites.
luffs are 8.0m

Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
22 Apr 2018 7:09PM
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I'll be talking to them tomorrow . In the meantime I checked the foot and mid girth measurement calculations against Qantum Sails and FX Sails data and it looks to be a flatter than cruising moderate but fuller than a code 0 assy.
Foot 172% of J ( per qantum moderate assy 180%, code 0 150/160%
mid girth 0.77 of foot (moderate .9 , code0 .5/.7
I looked at the etchells and others before deciding on new but felt might be a bit big for a 6 metre single handed

sirgallivant
NSW, 1531 posts
22 Apr 2018 10:12PM
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I don't get the idea behind a huge assy which is limited in use and huge in costs.
My code 0 or reacher's foot is 20'4" and the J is 11'10" which is about 172%
As a single handed cruiser I would not bother with a spinnaker most of the time.


Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
27 Apr 2018 8:31AM
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Thought I would update .
Had a good chat with sailmaker and we discussed my needs and limitations as a solo old fart. He apologised for the original and agreed they were wrong .(apprentice?) . He did suggest I recheck my ISP as it looked a bit short compared to I. Lesson for beginners ,I was short by 600 mm .Why? Because I attached a stretchable line to the spin.halyard to measure against tape measure on ground. Anyway luff is now 7.55 and leech 6.
Thanks for input .


shaggybaxter
QLD, 2589 posts
27 Apr 2018 8:38AM
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That looks MUCH better!!
Good result BB.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2589 posts
27 Apr 2018 8:48AM
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Select to expand quote
sirgallivant said..

I don't get the idea behind a huge assy which is limited in use and huge in costs.
My code 0 or reacher's foot is 20'4" and the J is 11'10" which is about 172%
As a single handed cruiser I would not bother with a spinnaker most of the time.



Horses for courses SG, the little Sonata's do need a bit of sail to go DDW and they're not very hard to manage.
I do know what you are saying though, I have a medium aso kite in a sock that is easy to single hand, just furl away the headsail and stand in the middle of the foredeck to launch/retrieve (need autopilot though), but my go-to kite for single handing is my gennaker, as it has a wire luff and a furler. You can set it and leave it there all day long, gybing is simply a case of furl/unfurl.
Sucks for running VMG numbers though, unless its blowing like stink.

Bananabender
QLD, 1607 posts
27 Apr 2018 12:27PM
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Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

sirgallivant said..

I don't get the idea behind a huge assy which is limited in use and huge in costs.
My code 0 or reacher's foot is 20'4" and the J is 11'10" which is about 172%
As a single handed cruiser I would not bother with a spinnaker most of the time.




Horses for courses SG, the little Sonata's do need a bit of sail to go DDW and they're not very hard to manage.
I do know what you are saying though, I have a medium aso kite in a sock that is easy to single hand, just furl away the headsail and stand in the middle of the foredeck to launch/retrieve (need autopilot though), but my go-to kite for single handing is my gennaker, as it has a wire luff and a furler. You can set it and leave it there all day long, gybing is simply a case of furl/unfurl.
Sucks for running VMG numbers though, unless its blowing like stink.

Thanks SB. I know exactly what you mean SG .
I bought her to do pleasant day sails and do a bit of navel gazing.
Unfortunately the racing bug was still lurking deep down.
I am only relieved she's small as the go fast $$ are mounting up and I'm only racing against myself!

sirgallivant
NSW, 1531 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:50PM
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Yeah, l understand your need for speed, so why don't you race at the local club?
After the race, go cruising and work on beating your PB?
Brilliant.



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"Asymmetrical Spinnaker sail plan effects" started by Bananabender